Building a new AMD rig...

[Grunt76]

Budget is not exactly limited... By which I don't mean I'll be throwing $25k at my PC next week. Rather, I like to upgrade and money is not particularly scarce for me.

For example, because I do some video compression from time to time and hate that it takes long, I will have a 4-HDD hardware RAID5 on my PC. Maybe more then 4HDD but 4 is the number that seems right ATM. So of course I might need a third PCIex8 slot on top of the two PCIex16... Of course there are hardware RAID5 that run on "just" PCIex4 bandwidth but heck, while I'm at it. I mean, that right there is a grand, so I might well do it right. These HDD's will be Samsun Spinpoint F1's. I have a 750gb and I love it.

PSU will be the corsair 1000w, I don't see anything better out there... Efficiency is important.

As I said, I run a water-cooler. It is included in my thermaltake Kandalf LCS case, which I love. Some say the liquid cooling might be greatly improved, but hell I don't even overclock my opteron ATM. Although, again, throwing a better pump at it is not at all out of the question but a rather low priority.

For video cards I am partial to ATi, good coincidence that they are top dog ATM... I'll wait for the HD4870X2... That will surely kick lots and lots of ass.

Future monitor will be Samsung, either 275T (1920x1200) or 305T (2560x1600) depending on the kind of performance I get at each resolution. No reason to get a 30" monitor to get 20fps at its native resolution. Well 1280x800 might work on it but for some reason I can't fathom it...

Operating system... I foresee XP. I hate microsoft with a passion and if I can avoid downgrading to the newer bugfest at all, I'll hang on as long as possible.

RAM... I love lotsa ram and I am bummed that XP can't handle more than 3gb. Maybe someone will find a way to virtual-drive the extra RAM and then put the page file on that?

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: Grunt76

Originally posted by: aigomorla
okey so let me get this correct.

You want a dual cpu AMD. Yet you want the fastest gaming machine possible?

Okey dual socket amd systems ARENT cheap. There expensive.

For that money you can easily pick up a QX intel rig, or a Q9650 Intel rig, and overclock tht massive beast to 3.8-4.0ghz.

Now lets see, 8 core barcelona not overclocked, vs a 4.0ghz yorkie.

This is a no brainer. Expecially since people are saying dual core wofldale is better then a quadcore kentsfield.

Same clocked Yorkfield > High clocked wolfdale > Average clocked kentsfield > ALL AMD.

So by reason, a Quadcore 3.8ghz-4.0ghz Yorkfield, would slaughter a 8 core barcelona.

You seem smart. Yet you show that you cannot comprehend what is written.

I want to build an AMD system. I want it to be as fast as possible for an AMD system. I don't care about Intel at the moment.

The answer has been given: a Phenom X4. Right now it would be the 9950. Possibly some chipset or mobo options need to be considered.

Thanks you guys for your help but not aigomorla who talks about intel whereas the TITLE SAYS "BUILDING A NEW *AMD* RIG"

Jesus, help me.

We are trying to help you.... To not make a mistake. I have no more advice to give beyond what I posted. You melt your motherboard, or are unhappy ? so be it.

Have fun.

 

[Grunt76]

Originally posted by: BLaber
Grunt just pick up a x4 Black Edition Phenom on a good sb750 MB and you are good to go PAL. If you could wait for a while though 45nm phenom will be out and the new phenom will also work with AM3 MB , so future proofing your purchase lol !

And its a pity that you "SPECIFICALLY" ask for help on building AMD SYSTEM and some people here advise you about how good a company intel is and what ever crap about intel..... (seems someone would even like to work for int-hell , limits of fanboyism , ROFL).

Hope your build rocks bro !~

Thanks and lol

 

[magreen]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Grunt76
Jesus, help me.

We are trying to help you....

Oh, so now you Intel fans think you're Jesus?

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: magreen

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Grunt76
Jesus, help me.

We are trying to help you....

Oh, so now you Intel fans think you're Jesus?

I am not an Intel fan. Tell me what FACTS that I have stated are incorrect as to why a Q6600 is not facter, cheaper, overclocks better, runs cooler, takes less power to run, etc... is incorrect.

 

[magreen]

Oh COME ON, it was a joke for COL!

 

[Markfw]

oh... After the way the poster was posting, I thought you were serious, he sure doesn't care about the advice many are trying to give him.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: Grunt76

Originally posted by: aigomorla
okey so let me get this correct.

You want a dual cpu AMD. Yet you want the fastest gaming machine possible?

Okey dual socket amd systems ARENT cheap. There expensive.

For that money you can easily pick up a QX intel rig, or a Q9650 Intel rig, and overclock tht massive beast to 3.8-4.0ghz.

Now lets see, 8 core barcelona not overclocked, vs a 4.0ghz yorkie.

This is a no brainer. Expecially since people are saying dual core wofldale is better then a quadcore kentsfield.

Same clocked Yorkfield > High clocked wolfdale > Average clocked kentsfield > ALL AMD.

So by reason, a Quadcore 3.8ghz-4.0ghz Yorkfield, would slaughter a 8 core barcelona.

You seem smart. Yet you show that you cannot comprehend what is written.

I want to build an AMD system. I want it to be as fast as possible for an AMD system. I don't care about Intel at the moment.

The answer has been given: a Phenom X4. Right now it would be the 9950. Possibly some chipset or mobo options need to be considered.

Thanks you guys for your help but not aigomorla who talks about intel whereas the TITLE SAYS "BUILDING A NEW *AMD* RIG"

Jesus, help me.

We are trying to help you.... To not make a mistake. I have no more advice to give beyond what I posted. You melt your motherboard, or are unhappy ? so be it.

Have fun.

how can he melt his motherboard? He is not getting a 780G mobo, he's getting one with the new SB750 and those support the 125w TDP.

Why is it that everytime someone that asks for help on building a AMD rig, he/she has to endure posts like yours??? If you can't say anything positive to help the OP then refrain from posting, it's quite sickning

 

[Markfw]

I was saying something positive, some good advice is positive. There are no SB750 motherboards out yet, and he didn't say he was getting one.

As for sickening, that is what comes from ignoring all logic and being a fanboy, and not giving logically sound advice. Enduring posts that help that misguided logic is also sickening....The reason there is so much advice to NOT build AMD at the moment, is its the logical thing to do.

If you going to take a shot at me, please use some logical reasoning to back up your thoughts. Otherwise it becomes a personal attack, and that is not allowed here.

 

[Extelleron]

Is a Phenom enough for playing the latest games? The answer to that is yes and no.... you'll be able to play anything, sure, but the performance is not ideal nor is a Phenom a good match for a high-end GPU like the 4870 X2 or any GTX 200 / HD 4800 card for that matter. I can say this with experience - going from a Phenom 9500 -> E8400 with a GTX 280, the performance increase I saw in Crysis was amazing. Avg framerates went up by a large margin, but min framerates almost doubled, and this is the most important way of measuring how good the gaming experience is going to be. And remember the 4870 X2 you are looking at is either a bit faster, or in some cases nearly 2x faster, than my GTX 280. So if I saw a huge CPU bottleneck, you will see an even larger one.

AMD is not a bad company or a good company, and neither is Intel. Both prioritize making a profit for their shareholders over anything else, and neither company really cares about us beyond ensuring our future business. When AMD was in the lead, they priced their processors very high and raked in the profits. Now that Intel is in the lead, they price their CPUs very competitively even though they could charge much more given the lack of competition.

What you do is up to you, but I'd recommend you consider all the options. I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy myself and I bought an AM2 X2 3600+ setup a year ago when Intel was in the lead, then a Phenom earlier this year even though Intel was in the lead. But I've gotten tired of holding myself back with slower CPUs so I just bit the bullet and purchased an Intel setup.

If you are going AMD, I'd look at:

CPU - Phenom X4 9950... obvious choice here.
Mobo - 790FX + SB750...going AMD, you simply need a quality mobo. One of my biggest problems with Phenom is that you can't just pick up a <$100 board and run/overclock any CPU. And of course wait until you can get a board with the SB750 southbridge, because it is going to help in overclocking.
Mem - 4GB DDR2-800.....DDR2-1066 is an option as well, but make sure the board you buy works with it. A lot of AM2+ boards have had trouble working with DDR2-1066, at least at launch. That might have changed by now.
GPU - Depends on your priorities here, but the 4870 X2 is the obvious choice if you are looking at high-end. Dual 4870 X2 for Quad Crossfire is an option, but not something I can recommend unless money is not a factor. Quad SLI/CF scaling is just not very good and not worth the money IMO.
PSU - Very important to go with something quality here. Phenom oc'd + 4870 X2 is going to take some serious power. A Corsair 1000W is a great choice and will be fine for just about anything you throw at it. If you're just going for a single 4870 X2 though, there is no need for more than the Corsair 750W model. I ran a Phenom + GTX 280 on my Corsair 520W without issue, so you really don't need 1000W.
OS - You might not like MS but there is no reason to not go Vista right now. I have never had any problems with Vista (outside of some early nVidia driver issues that have been long fixed by now) and XP simply has no place in a high-end rig these days. XP 64-bit is not a good option and 32-bit is outdated for the high-end. That's not even mentioning DX10, which is something that I would not go without after spending $1,000s on a PC. You want Home Premium probably (you don't want Basic and Ultimate costs too much) and 64-bit definitely. You might want to get retail though so you can switch between 32-bit/64-bit. From what I've heard on xtremesystems people had problems overclocking Phenoms on 64-bit Vista as compared to 32-bit. I never tried 64-bit with my Phenom so I can't confirm or deny this.

I really can't recommend you go the AMD route though. There is no situation in which my E8400 does not outperform the Phenom.... even apps which take advantage of 4 cores very well (such as Cinebench rendering) are just about equal for me on a 4.0GHz E8400 & 2.5GHz, and as I said with Crysis, there is no comparison both in the numbers and when playing the actual game. Games just aren't multi-threaded these days.... even Crysis which needs the CPU power. Crysis takes up around ~70% of a dual core CPU, so barely more than a single core. Most games are like this or even worse. So in gaming Phenom doesn't stand a chance against the E8xxx line, even when at stock speeds. If gaming is your priority, then there is no question about what you should go with. If you were doing something like rendering and sticking to stock speeds, then that is another story. A 2.2GHz 9550 beats a 3.16GHz E8500 anyday in rendering.

Anyway, no matter what route you go, you might want to consider buying your parts from eBay, new. MS offers 25% cashback right now, so you could get an X4 9950 for $180-190. Looking right now multiwavevideo has a 9950 on eBay for $237 + $10.99 shipping, so with the 25% off you are saving big compared to Newegg. The Hot Deals forum has a whole thread on this.

I'd just advise you to consider all options. Never let emotions decide a purchase.Let AMD and Intel compete for your business, and consider which one meets your needs better. If you had come in here three years ago asking for advice on an Intel rig..... everyone on here would have been trying to convince you to go AMD. We're just looking out for your best interests and not the interests of either company. Just remember that neither AMD nor Intel are your friend.... they are trying to make money and that is it.

 

[Markfw]

Extelleron, that is a stellar post. And coming from someone thats owned a Phenom, makes it more credible, and I agree with everything you said.

Gikaseixas and Grunt76, if you didn't like the way my replies were worded, please read the above post. (except I hate vista, but I won't argue the benefits, as I have limited experience, what I have is just bad experiences.)

 

[Grunt76]

Extelleron, you make a good case. Thanks for your insightful post.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I was saying something positive, some good advice is positive. There are no SB750 motherboards out yet, and he didn't say he was getting one.

As for sickening, that is what comes from ignoring all logic and being a fanboy, and not giving logically sound advice. Enduring posts that help that misguided logic is also sickening....The reason there is so much advice to NOT build AMD at the moment, is its the logical thing to do.

If you going to take a shot at me, please use some logical reasoning to back up your thoughts. Otherwise it becomes a personal attack, and that is not allowed here.

He didn't say he was getting a 780G either (which is the only one with that problem) so why do you have to make it appear that that's the case if he goes AMD?

He asked to be helped in building a AMD system, he didn't ask us to compare or tell him how much better a Q6600 is. We all know that.

I'm asking why is it so difficult for some people to help him on this. Oh it's AMD, it's automatically misguided logic answering a AMD related question, i see.

My post was not a personal attack, we are free to have a debate, i never used foul language or attacked you.

 

[Gikaseixas]

i will re-read ur post Mark, i just disagree with some points you made, that's all and Extelleron that was a great post.

 

[Markfw]

You didn't use foul language, but it was getting that way. "sick of...". I just saw bad things coming.. I apologise for being too sensitive. I see the same thing coming at me, every time I try to use logic against buying an AMD CPU. Whats funny is, 18 months ago, I was on the other side of the fence.

Remember, we are trying to give SOUND advice. Note the reply above "Extelleron, you make a good case. Thanks for your insightful post."

I wish I could have written better replies, so I bow to Extelleron for his great wording. He did exactly what I was trying to do.

i will re-read ur post Mark, i just disagree with some points you made, that's all and Extelleron that was a great post.

Edit: I see you agree that the above post is great, and my feeble attempt at the same failed.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
You didn't use foul language, but it was getting that way. "sick of...". I just saw bad things coming.. I apologise for being too sensitive. I see the same thing coming at me, every time I try to use logic against buying an AMD CPU. Whats funny is, 18 months ago, I was on the other side of the fence.

Remember, we are trying to give SOUND advice. Note the reply above "Extelleron, you make a good case. Thanks for your insightful post."

I wish I could have written better replies, so I bow to Extelleron for his great wording. He did exactly what I was trying to do.

i pm'd u, i wish i could get my point across in a better way too, my english is not that good, sorry for that

 

[Markfw]

cool, no worries, I guess we both suck at being "politically correct" or whatever, and we agree on one reply anyway, lets leave it at that.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
CPU - Phenom X4 9950... obvious choice here.

Are the 9950's also BE's like the 9850BE?

If the 9950 is not multiplier unlocked then what reason is there to get a 9950 when the 9850 BE's are available? Do the 9950's have higher overclocking headroom even still?

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: Extelleron
CPU - Phenom X4 9950... obvious choice here.

Are the 9950's also BE's like the 9850BE?

If the 9950 is not multiplier unlocked then what reason is there to get a 9950 when the 9850 BE's are available? Do the 9950's have higher overclocking headroom even still?

Right now both the 9850 & 9950 are BE only, although apparently the 9850 BE will be replaced by a standard model in time.

Whether the 9950 has more headroom is questionable, but at only $30 more it isn't going to break the bank. Considering the 9950 is 100MHz faster but with the same (or apparently lower, according to some reviews) power consumption, it would seem that it is a better binned model.

I suppose it is the same thing as QX9650 vs QX9770.... just instead of a $400~ difference it is $30.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Extelleron
Whether the 9950 has more headroom is questionable, but at only $30 more it isn't going to break the bank. Considering the 9950 is 100MHz faster but with the same (or apparently lower, according to some reviews) power consumption, it would seem that it is a better binned model.

Ah, I wasn't aware of this. I agree paying an extra $30 for the benefits of having had your 9950 processor certified by AMD's testers (shmoo plot validation and all that good EE stuff) to run an extra 100MHz faster is likely well worth it.

 

[Grunt76]

Any word on when the good mobo's are coming out?

I will need at least 2 PCIe16 and one PCIe8... And hopefully it will let me do a good crossfire with them 4870x2...

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

There is an article on the front page of Anadtech about the new 750 SB from ATI/AMD

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: Grunt76
Any word on when the good mobo's are coming out?

I will need at least 2 PCIe16 and one PCIe8... And hopefully it will let me do a good crossfire with them 4870x2...

You'll be severely CPU limited before you hit any GPU barrier.

 

[AsusGuy]

I agree w/ Yoxxy go with the Phenom 9950 and a new AMD SB750 board.

 

[Grunt76]

Originally posted by: TridenTBoy3555

Originally posted by: Grunt76
Any word on when the good mobo's are coming out?

I will need at least 2 PCIe16 and one PCIe8... And hopefully it will let me do a good crossfire with them 4870x2...

You'll be severely CPU limited before you hit any GPU barrier.

Well yeah, but I certainly HOPE there will be future CPU ugrades. I mean big time. The AM3 CPU's are supposed to be backward compatible with AM2+ so I heard last time I looked - granted that was a while ago - so I think there should be headroom?

Plus I watercool, so I just might upgrade my pump and go for the high GHZ on the 9950 until a much better CPU appears...

Thoughts?