Building a Mycenaean Citadel

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
EDIT: I have scaled down, got materials, have been building since November 2007.


Scale: 1:350



This is for a college course on Art History, the assignment was to recreate some architecture or art from any part of the world before the Italian Reniassance. Being a huge fan of the classics, and the Bronze Age period in particular, I had been fascinated with Bronze Age Greece.

The peoples inhabiting Greece at the time were known as the Mycenaeans, a race known for building cyclopean structures--particularly huge citadels of literal boulders, some heavy as 14,000 Kilos.

With such huge citadels and the like, I decided to reconstruct in a roundabout manner, the fortress-citadel of Tiryns.


Tiryns was a good choice because it is on a uniform height of a hill, and its outward structure is relatively easier to create.

The hardest parts so far were creating a proper solution to the walls; the Mycenaeans used little mortar, but gravity was in their favor--something it isn't with mine. So I had to use mortar, and yet at the same time, present a uniformly stone wall, and not a bunker wall with little gravel pieces pushed in.


I then started working with putty knives, and I came up with battlements and parapets--the ancient Mycenaeans were quite skilled with ceramic and stone working, and I wanted to reflect that in my piece. Therefore, the parapet (walkway) and battlements are with a fine clay (femo) finish. This is also easier to carve and presents a uniform appearance that "crowns" the walls, and helps to instill awe into the observer.


Other challengers included exaggerating the hill on the West side, because there is a huge curtain wall and the likes.



EDIT: Picture provided.

EDIT: I bump'd with poast, and I have provided a pic of myself and the circuit walls.

Sorry for the bump, but I just wanted to keep people who are interested posted with what I'm doing. About a week ago, I was suffering because I couldn't figure out how in hell to frickin get the stones together and project a stony feeling that the walls have:
http://www.odysseyadventures.c...enae/tiryns_aerial.jpg

So, I started fooling around with some mortar and gravel, and I came up with my answer:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb289/teh_Mac/Me.jpg

I just finished completing the circuit walls, I'm nowhere near done, maybe 63% done at earliest, but I'm encouraged and excited.

What do you guys think so far? Right now, I am working on the interior and finishing up some towers as well as working on the clay battlements that the Mycenaeans might have used to finesse their parapets.


Massive Edit 1/2/08


Text

You can see, the wall is topped with the battlements. It took me approximately 8 hours to get it so that the "dragon teeth" are scaled properly.

Closer shot at it

Here, the interior wall is formed, and those walls running parallel to each other; thats the inner courtyard where troops would train.

To the right, you have the curving wall, that's the massive west wall that slopes out, and slopes down the hill a bit. The hill of clay and plaster had be painstakingly planned out ahead of time to accommodate such an intimidating part of the cyclopean structure.

Text

I am carving some clay up there it seems, trying to accent the battlements and the triangular crenelations the Aegean Peoples used at this time.

Text

There's me working on the battlements -- basically, gluing those clay battlements down into the walls, so they don't go walking off when I pick this baby up and dump her in my Teacher's classroom.


bump'd on page 2.


edit 1/12/08

Well, now I am 95% done. :p

I have painted the complex, and I have made hovels for the inhabitants of the bailey. I actually made pillars out of toothpicks, painted red, and I think they look pretty interesting. I also decorated the main courtyard, but the problem is my paint brushing isn't exact, and the pens I use to decorate are very inky, which can lead to undesirable results. So, it's been a whole day of painting, re-painting, fiddling around with various ideas.


Originally, for the complex, I was going to just stick balsa wood "columns" in a very 2-d way, but then I decided to incise into the painted clay, and create a 3-d space, and in that space, I produced 3-d pillars made of painted red toothpicks.

I then used tweezers and a file to file the toothpicks down to size and gingerly pluck them into that space.

It was very time consuming, but well worth it.

I'm on track for my projected finishing time of around 7:30 PST. I promise picks will be uploaded Monday earliest :)(), but I'm really happy with the way it's come along. Alot of the way it looks has been from incredible trial and error, which resulted (in my opinion) in more better results. If I had the time, energy, endless materials, and only one class to worry about, I'd naturally improve upon this any way I could. But right now, I gotta be happy with the way it is, and I hope I'm doing justice to the people who inhabited that massive fortress.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,079
34,369
136
Length = 144 angloms
Width = 233 angloms

Coincidently, or not so coincidentally is my guess, 233/144 = 1.618, the golden ratio.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
May I ask what the hell an anglom is? I have never heard of it before.

And it seems longer than wide, looking at the site from the Northwest.


Pardon my asking, but are you actually being serious at all?
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Have you tried 'Mycenaean Citadels c. 1350-1200 BC' by Nic Fields? I don't know the work personally, but it seems like it might be a good resource for you.

I don't have time to verify this info, but here's some hits from quick research:

here
here
this one requires jstor access


Based just on those three I think it's an easily researchable topic, you just have to work at it. Then again I have a LOT of experience in historic research, so maybe I'm being a bit unfair.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Yes I have his book. So far, I have not been able to gauge a total length & width.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
I found some basic but helpful dimensions from PoW's Links. Thanks much!
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Sorry for the bump, but I just wanted to keep people who are interested posted with what I'm doing. About a week ago, I was suffering because I couldn't figure out how in hell to frickin get the stones together and project a stony feeling that the walls have:
http://www.odysseyadventures.c...enae/tiryns_aerial.jpg

So, I started fooling around with some mortar and gravel, and I came up with my answer:
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb289/teh_Mac/Me.jpg

I just finished completing the circuit walls, I'm nowhere near done, maybe 63% done at earliest, but I'm encouraged and excited.

What do you guys think so far? Right now, I am working on the interior and finishing up some towers as well as working on the clay battlements that the Mycenaeans might have used to finesse their parapets.
 

RKS

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,824
3
81
I'm sure your 'rents are thrilled about that project on their carpet.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: RKS
I'm sure your 'rents are thrilled about that project on their carpet.

Nah, I clean it all up by myself. Plus, its very powdery when it dries, so its superbly easy to vacuum up, no sweat.


My parents are very impressed I suppose, I basically visualized the building process and scale by myself, as well as purchased and talked to all the building material peoples so it's not that big of a deal for them in terms of hassle.

Plus, they hate that carpet, they want to get new carpet anyway, as well as the carpet only being in that room, and it's not an important room.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: Oceandevi
Is it gonna have dragons?

No, unfortunately not. Although, mythologically speaking, Hercules was born in Tiryns (Or Thebes depending on which version) and he slew the Hydra (and a dragon) so maybe I should reconsider.


Originally posted by: potato28
Give it a moat, to keep the black knight out.

Nope, no moat. For one thing, that's going to be awfully hard at this point, and the Mycenaeans didn't use moats. Too much labor for little gain.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: Oceandevi
Is it gonna have dragons?

No, unfortunately not. Although, mythologically speaking, Hercules was born in Tiryns (Or Thebes depending on which version) and he slew the Hydra (and a dragon) so maybe I should reconsider.


Originally posted by: potato28
Give it a moat, to keep the black knight out.

Nope, no moat. For one thing, that's going to be awfully hard at this point, and the Mycenaeans didn't use moats. Too much labor for little gain.

at least give it a minotaur or 2
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: Oceandevi
Is it gonna have dragons?

No, unfortunately not. Although, mythologically speaking, Hercules was born in Tiryns (Or Thebes depending on which version) and he slew the Hydra (and a dragon) so maybe I should reconsider.


Originally posted by: potato28
Give it a moat, to keep the black knight out.

Nope, no moat. For one thing, that's going to be awfully hard at this point, and the Mycenaeans didn't use moats. Too much labor for little gain.

at least give it a minotaur or 2

If it was Knossos, definitely. But Theseus of Athens slew the only one known to have been in existence. :(
 

John P

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,426
2
0
Pretty cool, that's pretty much what I pictured from your last thread. So, you lay down a layer of mortar and then cram the rocks in before they dry, then repeat, etc...?

When you're done with it you could easily modify it to make some sort of WWII 1/35 scale diorama if you're into that sort of thing.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: John P
Pretty cool, that's pretty much what I pictured from your last thread. So, you lay down a layer of mortar and then cram the rocks in before they dry, then repeat, etc...?

well, not cramming, but what I did was lay down a somewhat gloppy bit of mortar down, and stick stones on the sides, trying to jut them outward, and into each other, so it gives more of the impression that gravity is hold em down, and they're resting on each other. The Mortar is my artistic license to make sure they stay down, and at the same time, it provides a stony texture that conveys the idea.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Looks awesome. :thumbsup:

That house looks like a woman lives in it, and I can't believe a woman would let you do that in the house. :Q
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: Czar
give us more pics :)

I will, I took pictures, but they wont be uploaded til tomorrow. I was hoping to bump the thread then, lol.


FYI, I added on battlements with white clay, and made three towers. I took the pictures with the tower "caps" off, but I'll take some more with the caps on.




Originally posted by: mugs
Looks awesome. :thumbsup:

That house looks like a woman lives in it, and I can't believe a woman would let you do that in the house. :Q

My mum is blown away by it, but I do a lot of cleaning up, because she's at work a lot of the time. This is a college course, so she was thrilled that I embarked upon this--My mom would pat my back while I was taking a dump on the carpet if I said it was for the sake of education.

Originally posted by: ballmode
what if you sneezed

It happened a few times--my nose is rather sensitive to dust, and mortar produces a lot. I think some caught in my lungs, and was attacked by the mucus, because I had a horrible cold going into last week--which is when I first was laying this stuff down and creating the wall.

So I was sneezing, and a lot of cussing followed--but usually, the mortar was wet enough so that it didn't crumble. But with all the gravel bits I had to cram into there, they would fall down themselves. I was using a putty knife, a flat edge screwdriver, a yellow shovel, and my fingers throughot this whole process. It still isn't finished, I plan on finishing tomorrow or Thursday, so then I can do my other homework. :confused:
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
So, as promised, TehMac delivers yet again!

Text

You can see, the wall is topped with the battlements. It took me approximately 8 hours to get it so that the "dragon teeth" are scaled properly.

Closer shot at it

Here, the interior wall is formed, and those walls running parallel to each other; thats the inner courtyard where troops would train.

To the right, you have the curving wall, that's the massive west wall that slopes out, and slopes down the hill a bit. The hill of clay and plaster had be painstakingly planned out ahead of time to accommodate such an intimidating part of the cyclopean structure.

Text

I am carving some clay up there it seems, trying to accent the battlements and the triangular crenelations the Aegean Peoples used at this time.

Text

There's me working on the battlements -- basically, gluing those clay battlements down into the walls, so they don't go walking off when I pick this baby up and dump her in my Teacher's classroom.