Building a MicroATX low-profile i815 server... component advice?

[Leo V]

I figured there is still a use for ol' Inhell: their entry-level 533MHz FC-PGA CuMine only consumes <13Watts!

That's very opportune, because I want to build a very economical, low-profile server/firewall (100% stable, though). My component ideas thus far:
* Intel 533EB flip chip--more than fast enough @13Watts
* i815-based MicroATX motherboard
* Some PC133 SDRAM
* ATA100 Maxtor 60GB (ultra-quiet, low-heat/power 5400RPM)
* Two 3COM nics
* Micro-ATX Ultra-Quiet PSU 150W

It's the perfect invisible PC. Now I have a bunch of questions:

i815 (i815E?) motherboard suggestions: I don't need anything besides 1-2 PCI slots. No AGP, much less ISA, is needed (it won't have a videocard). MicroATX form factor. You get the idea--less is better. An onboard 3COM 100mbps interface would help but isn't required. Quality and stability are paramount.

Compact MicroATX case suggestions: A slim desktop may be a good idea (though a micro-tower may do), with as few bays as possible. I won't need any external bays, so a smooth box would be ideal. A small footprint is crucial; sleekness is bad because I'll stack things atop this case. EDIT: I've found some interesting Slim PC cases from Aopen. However, they're only 3.74&quot; tall--how the heck do you install PCI cards there??

Cooling the 533EB flip chip: Consistent with my philosophy, I won't use any fans here. But do I even need an Alpha heatsink for passive-cooling a 13Watt CPU? (I'm unsure it'll even fit in the case.)

This seems like a really cool project, and I'd appreciate your advice.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

For a heatsink, one of the taisol cek733(with a modified clip) might work, even without a fan. You could always duct the heatsink to the power supply to have some air movement over the heatsink.

dont' know of any micro-atx i815 boards, but i'd guess that if soyo makes one, it should be nice and stable.


Mike

 

[Wolfman35]

MSI Makes an MATX I-815E board that is very nice. As for the Case, That AOpen is NLX (Flex) style and uses a riser card for PCI. May not be the best choice. Use an InWin V500. Best MATX Case available!! Passive cooling is possible but IF you use the InWin case a retail fan/HS is VERY Quiet. No Added noise over the PS Fan. Be very careful about BIOS types if this is going to be a server. I assume you'll have NIC's in it and they can be a bear to configure if the BIOS does not allow resource allocation by User (Phoenix/AMI is bad about this).

 

[Wingznut]

I just built a system around the MSI 815E-PRO. It's a very stable, easy to set up board. If their MicroATX board is of the same quality, I'd recommend it in a heartbeat.

 

[Windogg]

I've done the same with a MSI package called the Concerto III and it's even more compact than the AOpen package. It comes with case and motherboard. It's a Slot1 440BX mobo but you can't beat it in size. The case is about 13&quot; x 12&quot; x 2.5&quot; It comes with integrated 4MB ATI Rage Pro video, Yamaha audio, and 10/100 Intel 82558 Ethernet on board. There is 1PCI and 1 shared PCI/ISA on the small riser card. 2 DIMM slots are available. On the front there are 2 USB ports and audio jack w/ volume control. The power supply is a 145W NLX and does an adequate job. There is room for 1 IDE Hard drive.

All you need to do is supply a processor (Celeron 466 w/ MSI Slotket in mine), memory (196Mb Samsung -GL PC100), hard drive (20.5GB WD Expert), CD-ROM (Must be slimline, 24X ASUS), and Floppy.

Overall I'm very happy. The combination of MSI and the BX chipset make for a rock solid system. At one point I was running W2K Server for 160 days straight until I had to shut it down to move to a new apartment. It's been up 100% of the time since my move.

Total cost last February was about $675 w/o monitor.

 

[Leo V]

Windogg, very interesting! The only problem is the chipset--I'd really like an i815 w/ICH2 if possible. Their i810E boards look interesting, but still--no official 133FSB support, plus don't they use the hated MTH controller? And I really wish they didn't carve those designer floppy/CDROM slits in the faceplate. Dust bad, normal faceplate good.

Perhaps MSI will release something i815 in a month?

EDIT: I'll rephrase myself. Are there any FlexATX i815 motherboards, now or coming soon? (Tough question, yes, but I'll post it separately.)

But returning to that Aopen design: can you put a standard-size PCI nic into it? It seemed as though it required special shorter mounting brackets, but I'm not sure.

I'm really interested in one of those &quot;ultra-microATX&quot; designs (slim desktop w/riser-mounted PCI). Are there any other such animals? Or can I mix &amp; match another motherboard with MSI's or Aopen's solutions?

 

[Windogg]

Sounds a lot like NLX. Mine is a mobo w/ riser card. The smallest cases I know are the Micro-NLX cases which is what the MSI package is based on. MSI has packages based on the 440BX, i810, and a SiS chipset. I don't know of any Micro-NLX i815 solutions yet.

 

[Windogg]

Here is a pic of my &quot;pizza box&quot; server

 

[Leo V]

Very cute...hey, is that a 21&quot; plasma screen on the left?? :Q

What do you think of the i810E chipset? Does it use an MTH translator? If not, it could work in place of i815.

 

[Noriaki]

no, i810E is native SDRAM, just not PC133.

The horrid MTH is only i820 (there is also MRH-S for i840 which is basically the same thing), i810(E) and i815(E(P)) are both native SDRAM.

 

[Leo V]

Whew, thanks Noriaki! Since I'll use my PC100 2-2-2 memory stick, the i810E's 100MHz memory ceiling is fine. I'm almost settled then: i810E MicroNLX/FlexATX pizzabox, just need to select one...

 

[Leo V]

OK, help differentiate between MSI's slightly thinner MS-6209E and their MS-6214E model.

Apparently the thinner one is &quot;LPX&quot; form factor. Does that mean it cannot have &quot;normal&quot; PCI devices? (I need to add 1 PCI nic).

 

[Windogg]

IIRC, LPX is just a older standard and being replaced by NLX. Things are smaller but I think it should take a standard PCI Card with no problems since it's on a riser card.

Windogg

 

[Leo V]

Kewl, I'll go for it then...the 90Watt power supply ought to be more than enough...

 

[Leo V]

$270 shipped at the cheapest, eh? I might have to wait a bit...

 

[TimeKeeper]

there are couple other selection at casedepot.com

 

[Leo V]

TimeKeeper, I like these even better! No frontal panel decorative floppy crap, and they're actually affordable.

Any chance I can get a i810E motherboard into this slimbox??

 

[TimeKeeper]

Try Pricewatch.com
simply type in &quot;NLX&quot; and do the search.
seems like Computergeeks got some NLX mobo for cheap.

 

[Leo V]

Found the right NLX mobo, the Intel D810EMO, which is an i810E with an NLX form factor. This one has exactly what I need--1 PCI, 1 DIMM, onboard LAN, nothing extra. And made by Inhell themselves--I'd rather get it straight from The Beast to prevent the Burden of instability later.

 

[TimeKeeper]

well...if you just want to run a mini-server, simply for firewall, you can get the bookpc w/ 810 chip.
cost around $170?

This is the place I got the bookpc which come w/ 50X CD-ROM (NOT 40X), keyboard, mouse.
Except, there is absolutely NO upgrade possible, after ONE HD (or two HD, if you don't use the CD-ROM, CPU and 2 stick of RAM. (maybe USB thingy only)

 

[Leo V]

It looks cool but its i810 doesn't allow CuMines, only Celery. I've found someone with a used Inhell i810E/NLX mobo, we'll see what happens.

 

[Wolfman35]

Leo, Just trying to save you some headaches here because I've &quot;Been There&quot; so I'll repost my earlier warning:

&quot;Be very careful about BIOS types if this is going to be a server. I assume you'll have NIC's in it and they can be a bear to configure if the BIOS does not allow resource allocation by User (Phoenix/AMI is bad about this)&quot;

Many of the Intel I-810/I-810E boards have the Phoenix or AMI BIOS and configuring them as a server is very difficult as Intel never meant for the 810 to be used as more than a Terminal/Desktop.

 

[hans007]

you can use an intel ca810e. Or if you could find out a via pm 133. I think tekram sells microatx boards direct on their site. I myself run a microatx setup. the inwin v500 is a good case, since it can still take a full atx powersupply, i have a 300 watt antec in it for my tbird 800 . pretty good fit and finish on it, and the case itself only costs about $37 on egghead.com

 

[Leo V]

Wolfman35, I hear you--thanks! But what kind of problems am I risking, if all I'm installing is just one 3COM nic? (The Intel onboard nic connects to the SDSL bridge, the 3COM nic goes to the switch &amp; my two computers). I really don't plan to change/add any other hardware. The configuration may be difficult, but is it possible?

(BTW I'm considering Intel's own motherboard--perhaps it uses a more decent BIOS?)

 

[Wolfman35]

Leo, Intel boards use the Phoenix BIOS. While you are only installing ONE NIC ... The other (onboard NIC) is still there and uses resources. It will try to reserve the memory allocation range specific to Network cards. When you install your PCI Slot NIC it will go in one step from the onboard NIC. Windows will not see this as a conflict but it IS!!!!! Just make sure that you get a Motherboard that allows you to change resource assignments. Cheap is only &quot;GOOD&quot; when it works. If it won't do what you want it to .... Even Free is too expensive.

It sounds like what you're doing is setting up an internet sharing topology. Can I ask why you need 2 NIC's if you're using a Router (Switch)?? Also why not just spend $100 and get a Dedicated DSL Gateway/Router that will act as both Firewall and &quot;Server&quot;?? I see what you're trying to accomplish but it sure looks to me like you're going WAY outta the way to solve a problem thats already been solved for you by SMC, LinkSys, D-Link and many others. (I use the D-Link 704 for home installs)