Building a file server, advice/recommendations wanted on hardware.

[gabegarwick]

Hi, I'm wanting to build a file server for my home network. (Storing MP3s mostly) I'm looking for some hardware recommendations.
I'm pretty set except for the mobo combo --I'm finding it a little intimidating trying to pick/find one to suit me...
So... I thought I'd come ask the nice residents at the AT forums for a bit of advice
My outline so far:

4 HD of at least 120 GB each (RAID 5)
?? Mobo/proc
512 Ram
?? Case

So to get me started, I need to pick a mobo first
I'm thinking I'd like one that has integrated LAN, video, sound, etc. (since this is only a file server I don't need blazing graphics)
Either platform is fine,socket 478 or A.

I haven't yet made up my mind if I'm going to do hardware or software raid. I know that some mobo's support raid... but do any support raid 5? I'll certainly welcome any RAID or case suggestions also... (case needs to have at least 4 internal 3.5" bays)

I'm not really under any budget constraints, but I'd like to keep the project under $1500 if possible...

Thanks,
Gabe

 

[DeviousTrap]

Quick question: Why are you going with such an expensive system. If all it is, is a file server than do you do not need much processing power, mainly RAM and hard drive space. Any Pentium II computer would be able to serve files.

 

[bozo1]

What computer89 said. While what you want to build is technically a 'file server', in my book a server is a box that will be serving up files, databases, whatever for many, many users. All you are really building is a box to share files on your network. Even an 100MHz Pentium with 64 megs of RAM would do just as well as a beefy box.

 

[charlie21]

I've never heard of a motherboard with onboard RAID 5. I do know that hardware RAID 5 is -expensive- and is definately overkill for your situation.

 

[mcveigh]

Here is what I put together for a small company recently. Iused an old PC their's P3 500, asus p3b-f mobo.

I put in a better powersupply, a 3ware raid 1 card, 2 40Gb maxtor HD's and installed redhat linux on it.

working like a champ

 

[gabegarwick]

Thanks for the replies so far, valid points in there...

Umm, Raid 5 because I'm a geek? (Is that a valid excuse?)
I've got around 200 GB of MP3s to store and looking for a way to provide a backup solution. (I'm paranoid)

The speed issue --true, I can't argue with that... maybe I'll just pick up a Duron...

Somebody was kind enough to direct me to a mobo with RAID 5 that hasn't hit the market yet...

-Okay, forget the Raid Mobo...
Any recommendations on a Duron or Athlon XP mobo/proc combo w/ Lan, video,sound?

thanks,
Gabe

 

[DWW]

The speed issue --true, I can't argue with that... maybe I'll just pick up a Duron...

BAD IDEA

For the extra $10 or whatever go Athlon. Quadruple your cache and better cpu. Even if its not immediately used for anything intensive, if your dropping money on other sh!t (board, case, ram) might as well get a semi-decent CPU like Athlon 1800XP+ cause they are so cheap. Sure you could prob find a duron 1GHz for half the price, but down the road you might like the extra power for something... who knows. And then you'll think to yourself "Wish i spent that measily $30 more and got a better CPU"... thats just my advice and lots of people will disagree but I say "get it right the first time" instead. NOT saying anything higher than that... but for its price, the 1800 XP is a sweet spot....so much power and so cheap at that.

 

[gabegarwick]

DWW,
agreed, I wasn't serious when I made the statement. But, I'm glad you pointed that out nonetheless. --The potential return for the initial small investment in the Athlon XP over the bottom tier processor is worth it IMHO.

(wow, large vocabulary words for me on a Saturday . hehe)
thanks,
Gabe

 

[mechBgon]

Incidentally, it's bad form to cross-post essentially the same question in more than one section of the Forums Just so you're aware.

 

[dexvx]

If you dont have a computer at home already that can do it (anything pentium II class and above, with over 256MB of ram), just pick one up for cheap on the AT FS/T forum.

Raid5 on a desktop mobo, I highly suspect its quality. Most cheap raid cards are basically crap.

 

[artemedes]

I built a Fileserver for our house. I didn't really need it at first so just used a bunch of old parts I had laying around. There have been up to 4 people using it at the same time and it didn't even hiccup or come close to using up even a third of the resources. It is just a k6-450 with a promise card to run more drives and do so faster than the old on board ide controllers. I think it only has 128 mb ram.

Anyway if I was going to do it over again and actually spend money on it, I might do it a couple of ways. Knowing I don't need a super fast computer I would be tempted to build something small and quiet using those ultra small fanless mbs like what is in this.. Your file server will probably be on 24/7, so if your like most people you would want something as innocuous as possible. Added benifit of those little motherboards is that they use very little power. Secondly, If I thought I needed a better desktop for everyday use I would make my old computer the fileserver and build myself a kick-butt computer to actually use.

Just something to chew on.

 

[gabegarwick]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Incidentally, it's bad form to cross-post essentially the same question in more than one section of the Forums Just so you're aware.

Thank you for pointing that out. I created this thread, then thought I might garner a more informed response on the motherboard question in that forum so I posted it there also. Sorry.


So, since the subject has been brought up... What is the preferred method of posting questions for a project like this? (I'm serious, I want to know)
Example: (I have to post the mobo question in the mobo forum, the case question in the case forum, etc. ??) In effect that's not really much different...? -All the questions are related to each other...some more closely than others... and I would end up repeating most of the same info in the various forums... (as I did in this case)

-Or, do I only post the question in General and miss out on the audience that may only frequent the narrow focus forums?

-Or... some other method?

thanks,
Gabe

 

[Intelman07]

I have a file server that stands as follows:
Intel Pentium II 350Mhz
Asus P2B-LS
512MB ECC Ram
20GB WD
20.5GB Fuji
2x4.78GB 10,000 RPM Seagate cudas
Old diamond 4MB video card

It works like a charm! Its basically just a spare parts server thing. The point is nothing fancy is needed.

 

[brinstar117]

My file server has gone through a few revisions over the years. It was originally a Pentium 233 with 90GB and 128MB of PC133 ram and it served my network quite well, however it was a pain to remotely administrate. Later it was upgraded to a Pentium III 800EB with 250GB and 512MB of PC133. Now the final iteration of the file server (I hope) is a dual Pentium Pro 200 w/1MB L2 with 400GB and 1024MB of EDO ECC Buffered DIMMs.

The P1 wasn't that powerful, but it was nearly silent since most of it was passively cooled. The P3 introduced a lot of unwanted sound with active cooling. With the dual P-Pro I was able to use minimum active cooling not to mention it's in a new, large, and well-built case which dampens what little sound it makes.

For me the most important considerations were: cost (I used mostly what I had on hand, spare parts), reliability (since it had to be on 24/7, a good power supply was a must), and finally noise emissions. Since the file server is in the same room where I sleep, I wanted it to be as quiet as possible.

I don't have any sort of RAID arrays since all my important data is regularly backed up on to CD-R's.

My recommendation for you is if you have parts lying around, see if you have enough to get a file server put together. Next, if you are going out to buy new hardware, buy parts that have an established history of stability. Finally, overkill is fun, but sometimes you'll wish that you had spent the money on something that you could have gotten your money's worth out of. Each time I constructed my file server, the amount of new money I put into it ranged from $50-$300. Most of that money was in hard drive costs though.

Have fun with your file server!

 

[HappyCracker]

I agree with brin on this one. Go PPro! I recently picked one of these up on Ebay for $10, $20 shipping. Oh well. It didn't come with a hard drive, but I have one laying around, so no problem. It's not the fastest on the block, but it does its function well, and for ten bucks, you can't go wrong

 

[gabegarwick]

thanks for the additional comments guys Happy Easter!

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: gabegarwick
Thanks for the replies so far, valid points in there...

Umm, Raid 5 because I'm a geek? (Is that a valid excuse?)
I've got around 200 GB of MP3s to store and looking for a way to provide a backup solution. (I'm paranoid)

The speed issue --true, I can't argue with that... maybe I'll just pick up a Duron...

Somebody was kind enough to direct me to a mobo with RAID 5 that hasn't hit the market yet...

-Okay, forget the Raid Mobo...
Any recommendations on a Duron or Athlon XP mobo/proc combo w/ Lan, video,sound?

thanks,
Gabe

How about "Because a file server requires fault-tolerance"

When you have that many files, you do NOT want to loose it all. And some people wonder what the point of software RAID-5 is

My file-server/router is evolving:
Abit BP6 dual Celeron PPGA motherboard
Dual Celeron 366MHz CPUs at 550MHz (100MHz FSB)
512MB PC133 SDRAM @ CAS2 100MHz
GeForce2 GTS-V flashed to GTS BIOS (Just so the file-server can do a little double-duty at LAN parties)
Sound Blaster 128 4-channel (Cheapest available!)
Two Prism chipset Wireless PC Cards with PCI adapters (Capable of running as an access point)
3Com 10BT ISA, Linksys 10/100 ISA, 3Com 10BT PCI, Intel Pro10/100
10GB IBM boot drive
80GB WD storage drive
4x2x24 HP 8100+ CD-RW
All in a slick modded case with a 1u-sized 300w PSU (Yeah, I know I need more juice)

Coming soon!
4 WD 100GB Special Edition drives (Already have 3)
Promise FastTrak SX4000
Hot-swap bays

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: CZroe
When you have that many files, you do NOT want to loose it all.

Which is why you have a RAID array (and no, RAID 0 does not count), plus a tape, zip, or CD-R drive.

And some people wonder what the point of software RAID-5 is

Well, software RAID 5 eats too much CPU power, so I recommend a controller such as the 3Ware IDE RAID controllers or Promise IDE RAID controllers that support RAID 5. If I were buying one today (and I wish I could afford to do so, along with 4 or 5 200GB IDE hard drives), I would get the 3Ware.

 

[EeyoreX]

My file server is way overpowered IMO, mostly because I built it from spare parts I had laying around. And it is due for an upgrade due to main rig upgrade love!

Currently it is a 1.4GHz TBird with 768MB RAM. I would like more hard drive space (currently "only" two 200GB WD SE drives I managed to pick up in the FS/FT forums) in addition to the 2 (RAID 0) 13GB WD hard drives. This is mainly a file server for video files, as I want to add more hard drive space for the 100+GB of MP3s. I would love to be able to afford a hardware RAID 5 solution (both hard drives and RAID card) So I am kinda "living dangerously" with no real way to backup almost 400GB of video and MP3 files (CD-R is insane!) Plus, the reality is that I could get most, if not all of this, back, so it's not so bad. Of course, irreplacable data is backed up regularly, but I don't have hundreds of GB of that!

\Dan

 

[MikeMike]

Get one of these and it will suit you well for cheap, plus silence

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: jliechty

Originally posted by: CZroe
When you have that many files, you do NOT want to loose it all.

Which is why you have a RAID array (and no, RAID 0 does not count), plus a tape, zip, or CD-R drive.
Perhaps you didn't notice: Tape backup cost more than buying twice as many HDDs. RAID-5 lets you buy those hard drives AND gain capacity instead of just using it to backup what you have. THAT'S where it gets economical!

And some people wonder what the point of software RAID-5 is

Well, software RAID 5 eats too much CPU power, so I recommend a controller such as the 3Ware IDE RAID controllers or Promise IDE RAID controllers that support RAID 5. If I were buying one today (and I wish I could afford to do so, along with 4 or 5 200GB IDE hard drives), I would get the 3Ware.

The Promise SuperTrak SX6000, but the FastTrack SX4000 is software-based (With hardware XOR engine). Both support RAID-5.

About the CPU hit...
Perhaps you forget that loosing CPU resources is not important in a semi-dedicated file server. Also, how much network activity is there going to be in a home network while you're using the file-server to play a game? If anything, the faster load times will benefit and get the game going faster. During HDD access, it's never the CPU that's the bottleneck. The game will appreciate it. Try loading Unreal Tournament 2003... Imagine while it's loading how little CPU power is being used and how much HDD activity is going on. When it's loaded HDD activity STOPS (If you have enough system memory), so where is the bottleneck there?

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Also, if you go with 100mbit connections (Cat 5) or higher, make sure to have DDR RAM. On my brother's computer, 766mhz Celeron and PC133 RAM, in performance viewer in administrative tools, his bottleneck was the RAM, lol. I don't know how or why but it just was. Without copying those files every thing was at 0 if you want to compare.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: CZroe
About the CPU hit...
Perhaps you forget that loosing CPU resources is not important in a semi-dedicated file server. Also, how much network activity is there going to be in a home network while you're using the file-server to play a game? If anything, the faster load times will benefit and get the game going faster. During HDD access, it's never the CPU that's the bottleneck. The game will appreciate it. Try loading Unreal Tournament 2003... Imagine while it's loading how little CPU power is being used and how much HDD activity is going on. When it's loaded HDD activity STOPS (If you have enough system memory), so where is the bottleneck there?

Ah, yes, I did forget (I was thinking a workstation type application where you have tons of disk space with plenty of processing going on at the same time). Well then, as long as you're not trying to do software RAID 5 on a 200MHz PPro, it should work ok.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: AgaBooga
Also, if you go with 100mbit connections (Cat 5) or higher, make sure to have DDR RAM. On my brother's computer, 766mhz Celeron and PC133 RAM, in performance viewer in administrative tools, his bottleneck was the RAM, lol. I don't know how or why but it just was. Without copying those files every thing was at 0 if you want to compare.

I think maybe his performance bottleneck was Windows. Standard PC133 memory (hell, even standard PC100 memory) should be more than enough for a file server that's going to be used for what you are using it for. I have a Duron 700 with PC100 memory that runs as my little test box and fileserver, and with some relativly new 7200 RPM hard drives, it can fill up my 100mbit network connection (on a switch) easially.

As far as overkill, I'd say if you want to do a good job, do the following things. Get good stuff, not the latest and the greatest. An old PII server would be a lot more useful as a server than some piece of junk 3 ghz computer with a cheap motherboard and a cheap controller card. If you really want RAID, save some money on your motherboard and processor by buying older or used stuff (but make sure it's high quality, not just cheap) and get a good RAID card. And for file serving, RAID 5 would be the way to go, it's fast and gives you some data protection. And this is just a suggestion, but run an OS like FreeBSD or Linux. You can get away with a lot less hefty of a system and put more money into good hardware and big drives.

 

[everman]

Just use good quality but cheap/older hardware. I think a dual PPro would be fun This is a home file server, you will not have 20 users connected to it at once, you will not be constantly doing cpu intensive tasks. What matters most are your HDs and the RAID controller card. I reccomend using Samba (linux) as it is much faster than using windows. no gui or anything to take up cpu resources like windows.