building a 10 to 50 user network with voip and vpn

[nefariouscaine]

I'm looking at various options on setting up a network for ten users to start with possible projected experienexpansion to a Max of 50 users. Will likely start with 10 to 15 users and limited contact use period( only admin and management)

Might steer towards thin clients.

Building will be bare and network will be done from ground up with nothing preexisting.

Looking at running through Verizon fios for internet connectivity.

Likely will be building a new quad or six core server, honestly don't think this would be ideal for the Max number of thin clients if going that route.

User/client os will need to be windows based due to the nature of the industry software, can't find much in the way of software for this industry being used with thin clients though so basic desktops might be more feasible.

Thinking of a basic setup like this:

Modem to firewall (maybe separate firewall) vpn enabled Cisco router to switch(es) to server and clients and printers

Unsure on wireless as main connection due to use of voip but might use a setup that is software and headset only for the voip vs needing a wired. base to avoid having to run all that cable.

I'm a little burned out after 12 hours work yesterday and only a few hours sleep after that...

Figure I have twenty grand for most everything not a huge budget but by no means small but this would need to cover all software and hardware. Remember no existing anything is on hand. Open to a mix of new and used to save costs on the less than vitals


Truth be told I think I might be able to do whatever I want so long as I make it work well.

 

[drebo]

$20k isn't enough to properly set up 50 users.

Even if you skimp on switches and go with 10/100 PoE switches from an off-brand, you're still not going to have enough for PCs. You might be able to swing 10 users for $20k.

Figure $5k for a tier 1 server (ProLiant ML350 for instance) and $900 per workstation after monitor/Office software.

That leaves $5k for phone system and network...not much to work with. On the network side of things, you could get done for $1k not counting cabling...a Juniper SRX100B (router/firewall/vpn endpoint) and a DLink 1228P 24-port PoE switch can be had new for about $1k. Yealink T26 VoIP phones are about $120 each and a SuperMicro 5015A Atom server with PSTN connectivity would cost about $2k depending on the PSTN connectivity options...this'll handle Asterisk up to about 10 simultaneous calls. That leaves maybe $1k for cabling.

If you need wireless coverage, you can get 3x Ubiquiti Unifi APs for $199. I would NOT recommend wireless as the primary mode of connection in a business setting, especially in a business running VoIP.

That is, of course, assuming no margin or labor. Also includes no VPN licensing (though you could use RRAS on the Windows server.) Thin clients WILL be much more expensive, as TS licensing and volume licensing for Office are significantly more expensive.

 

[nefariouscaine]

I only need to have an initial ten or so set up. I might be able another ten grand in the budget to ensure scaling with the projected growth

I want to try and get 20 stations to cover initial growth to be honest

 

[xSauronx]

I only need to have an initial ten or so set up. I might be able another ten grand in the budget to ensure scaling with the projected growth

I want to try and get 20 stations to cover initial growth to be honest

you really need to find consultants in your area to do a site assessment and get some quotes for what you want done.

if you have any special server side/client software figure in a fair amount of extra cost as well, unless you do a lot of planning and documentation ahead and have a good plan with the software vendor that covers everything that will be done.

 

[Smoblikat]

Listen, this isnt what you want to hear. But you might have to get some people (friends) and build all the systems yourselves to save on costs. That will cut costs down HUGE amounts. Then get a nice router, a firewall, DHCP server (maybe in the router) your switch(s) possibly a WAP for later needs. FE will be fine to the desktop but your backbone should be GE at least, maybe cat 6.

 

[gsaldivar]

With respect, it's clear from your post that you aren't sure of your own needs. Asking for detailed advice without a clear understanding of the requirements is a recipe for disaster. Honestly, there are a thousand ways to spend 20k and have nothing but problems to show for it. You really need to hire an experienced local consultant to visit your location, evaluate your needs, weigh the options, and propose a solution.

If you're doing any hosted solutions (hosted Exchange, VoIP, etc.) then leverage their sales and tech people to help guide you with the solution. They can often help you to avoid reinventing the wheel. However, this isn't a substitute for a good consultant working to meet your specific requirements.

 

[seepy83]

Listen, this isnt what you want to hear. But you might have to get some people (friends) and build all the systems yourselves to save on costs. That will cut costs down HUGE amounts. Then get a nice router, a firewall, DHCP server (maybe in the router) your switch(s) possibly a WAP for later needs. FE will be fine to the desktop but your backbone should be GE at least, maybe cat 6.

I'm a very firm believer that absolutely no business, large or small, should build their own PCs (and absolutely never Servers). You buy them with an appropriate extended warranty so that you make 1 phone call when a piece of hardware fries and it gets replaced within 24 hours. It costs less in the long run.

Edit:
OP - you've already heard it, but I would echo the recommendations to contact a local IT consultant/VAR. Judging from your post, to do this correctly, you're going to need help. At 10-50 users, you need to setup an AD domain. If you go with Thin Clients, you will need MS Terminal Services, possibly Citrix, and you might want to explore VMware View and weigh the +'s and -'s of going the Microsoft, Citrix, or VMware route. The way I would build it, at this point you need a minimum of 3 servers (2 Domain Controllers and 1 Terminal Server), and we haven't even started talking application servers or putting file/print services on something that isn't a DC or Terminal Server, and we haven't given you any redundancy for Terminal Services...so if that one goes down, business is down. You also need to be thinking about how you're going to handle backups for your data and AD.

 

[Smoblikat]

I'm a very firm believer that absolutely no business, large or small, should build their own PCs (and absolutely never Servers). You buy them with an appropriate extended warranty so that you make 1 phone call when a piece of hardware fries and it gets replaced within 24 hours. It costs less in the long run.

Edit:
OP - you've already heard it, but I would echo the recommendations to contact a local IT consultant/VAR. Judging from your post, to do this correctly, you're going to need help. At 10-50 users, you need to setup an AD domain. If you go with Thin Clients, you will need MS Terminal Services, possibly Citrix, and you might want to explore VMware View and weigh the +'s and -'s of going the Microsoft, Citrix, or VMware route. The way I would build it, at this point you need a minimum of 3 servers (2 Domain Controllers and 1 Terminal Server), and we haven't even started talking application servers or putting file/print services on something that isn't a DC or Terminal Server, and we haven't given you any redundancy for Terminal Services...so if that one goes down, business is down. You also need to be thinking about how you're going to handle backups for your data and AD.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks, i might need this information late in life.

 

[Lifted]

Are you planning on sticking around to support... it?

Get some help. I fear if you move ahead with this "plan" you will not be doing right by your client, and will end up costing them a lot more in the long term (and I'm 99% sure in the short term as well). If things get bad you might even find yourself liable for damages. Be careful.

 

[mammador]

I'm looking at various options on setting up a network for ten users to start with possible projected experienexpansion to a Max of 50 users. Will likely start with 10 to 15 users and limited contact use period( only admin and management)

Might steer towards thin clients.

Building will be bare and network will be done from ground up with nothing preexisting.

Looking at running through Verizon fios for internet connectivity.

Likely will be building a new quad or six core server, honestly don't think this would be ideal for the Max number of thin clients if going that route.

User/client os will need to be windows based due to the nature of the industry software, can't find much in the way of software for this industry being used with thin clients though so basic desktops might be more feasible.

Thinking of a basic setup like this:

Modem to firewall (maybe separate firewall) vpn enabled Cisco router to switch(es) to server and clients and printers

Unsure on wireless as main connection due to use of voip but might use a setup that is software and headset only for the voip vs needing a wired. base to avoid having to run all that cable.

I'm a little burned out after 12 hours work yesterday and only a few hours sleep after that...

Figure I have twenty grand for most everything not a huge budget but by no means small but this would need to cover all software and hardware. Remember no existing anything is on hand. Open to a mix of new and used to save costs on the less than vitals


Truth be told I think I might be able to do whatever I want so long as I make it work well.

How many workstations do you need? How many switches? What Layer 1 will you use (,e.g. Ethernet Cat 5 or 6)?

First step IMO in network design is determining users, and then bandwidth. And from there, draw up addressing schemes (in both v4 and v6 to be proactive), and then construct, test, and deploy.

 

[BoT]

there are a lot of things to take into consideration.
have you done anything of this scale before?
do you have any help?
what exactly is the network used for?
- small business
- internet cafe
- lan party
how flexible is the budget?
is there a budget allocated for future maintenance and support?
is the network located in an office building?
will it span across floors?
what will be the furthest physical distance from one end to the other end of the network, or multiple points?
what devices will connect through wireless and what security will be required.
will the server provide any services or web services outside of vm?
consider back ups.
how will the server and network be secured?
will temperature or humidity be a factor?
how mission critical is uptime? will you need electric power recovery options?

i could go on but thats why you probably should get a local consultant. someone who knows locality and local businesses and vendors who can make all of this happen

 

[nefariouscaine]

All this is in the most basic stage of development and I'm more than aware I don't fully know what the needs are.

Closest project I've done on this size of a scale wasn't setting up a network but doing a full alarm system for a massive warehouse( football field sized) but that's a totally different set of issues.

Unfortunately I'm missing half the pertinent data I've been trying to get and most of what's been asked of me by you guys here.

I don't have a full understanding of what would be needed, knew that when I posted this up. Speaking to a consulting firm is not outside the possibility BUT I also know unless I find the right firm and have a decent basis of what's needed I'm only going to risk being given a run around on unneeded equipment and/or service.

Already planned on buying a server with at least 2 years service built in and doing the majority of building with 2 others at a min. Will likely run it all on cat 6.
thing is I could adhoc some initial bs setup just to get them rinning while figuring out their real needs as honestly they don't fully know themselves.

 

[BoT]

the more information you can provide about your project the better we can steer you in the right direction.

setting up a temporary network to get a feel of what is need could be a good research tool but make sure to make it clear that it is temporary and solely a test platform. you don't want people to end up demanding it or even depend on it while you are not ready for showtime. also keep in mind that it could generate a substantial amount of troubleshooting time and maintenance and end user support that could keep you from or prolong your actual project.

is there a deadline?

 

[nefariouscaine]

the more information you can provide about your project the better we can steer you in the right direction.

setting up a temporary network to get a feel of what is need could be a good research tool but make sure to make it clear that it is temporary and solely a test platform. you don't want people to end up demanding it or even depend on it while you are not ready for showtime. also keep in mind that it could generate a substantial amount of troubleshooting time and maintenance and end user support that could keep you from or prolong your actual project.

is there a deadline?

No dead line right now - the entire thing is in the planning stage

I'll kee that in mind if I do end up setting up a temp network

if people want to hold off on additional replys for now until I have further info with greater detail - the replys so far have given me a decent idea on what to find out for the time being