Building 30 machines for a school computer lab. Any advice appreciated...

[lsommerer]

We are replacing 30 computers in our PC lab at school. The current machines were built by students six years ago (to save money and also as a learning experience) and I thought we would do the same thing this time for the same reasons.

Here are my goals for these machines:

1. They should be relatively future proof. That is to say, they will probably be in service for 5-6 years and so I have to build them a little faster than they really need to be for today's use. They will be used for Microsoft Office, some Adobe Creative Suite, and for a little programming. No CAD classes.
2. There should be a little nice factor when students see/use them. I am not above having students think, "Oh, they updated this lab, what we do here must be a little important to them."
   [*]They should be fairly easy to maintain. I'm looking for quality parts that seem to last (at least in my price range). I need a case that spastic 7th grade boys won't idly break pieces from. I will have to remove the hard drives occasionally to reimage them, and would like that to be fairly painless.
   

I have about $350.00 to spend per machine. I would be happy to spend less than that, because that money would be used for other technology projects at school, and I could probably come up with a little more money if that would make the machines significantly better. I'll be purchasing these in the United States.

One of my concerns is finding good prices for parts. I really can't do rebates (MIR prices), because I don't have 30 people to purchase these. I could have 6 people, so limit 5 offers are okay. Maybe someone knows more than I do about getting bulk discounts.

Here are the parts I'm considering and why:

CPU: It didn't look like AMD had anything better than Intel in my price range, so I didn't really look at AMD processors closely. I don't have anything against AMD (current machines have Athlon X2 4850e), so feel free to point me toward a comparable AMD processor. I do not see us doing any overclocking.

• $58 Intel Pentium G3250 (I am strongly leaning this way)
• $110 Intel i3-4150

GPU: Onboard graphics only. I can't see any reason to put a graphics card in these machines.

• $0.00

RAM: It seems to me that 8GB is better than 4GB if I'm aiming 5 year out, but memory is easy to add, so I'm not above starting with 4GB and adding another 4GB in a few years if that seems reasonable. My preference is to use Crucial. I have had memory from them go bad over the years, but they have always been very good about replacing it.

• $27 4GBx1
• $52 8GBx1

Storage: I would really like to just put a smaller SSD in these. My current school disk images are about 64GB, so I'm looking at a 120GB SSD. These drives are not used for storing student data. I don't know much about SSD reliability, so could use any help picking a good brand/model.

• $61 120GB SSD Silicon Power S60
• $69 120GB SSD Intel 530 Series SSDSC2BW120A4K5

Motherboard: I'm leaning strongly toward a mini-itx motherboard, because I'm leaning strongly toward some mini-itx cases. I would not be opposed to another size motherboard, but you'd have to sell me on another case as well. I really don't know what to do here. I usually buy an open box mother board for my own computers, but that won't work with 30 of them. reliability is probably my highest priority here. Other than that, I really don't know where to spend my money. There was some talk of wanting the computers to be wireless, but that's not necessarily a requirement. I'm going to just throw out the ones I'm currently looking at:

• $68 ASRock H81M-ITX/WIFI
• $88 ASRock H97M-ITX/ac

Case: I'm a little up in the air here. I could save some money by buying a case with a built-in PSU or with an external PSU. I'm tempted to do that, but my impression is that those PSUs are never very good. Here are the options I'm looking at with built-in/external PSUs:

• $65 Antec ISK 110 VESA 90Watt (maybe RF interference)
• $65 IN WIN BQ656T 120Watt
• $50 In Win BP655 200Watt

I actually like the cases below a lot more, but pairing them with a decent power supply raises the price. Notice that they don't have any external drive bays. Apart from liking the looks, I think they will continue to look good longer in a lab setting.

• $40 DIYPC HTPC-Cube-BK
• $55 LIAN LI PC-Q01B This is the one I'd like to get.

PSU
The cheapest, reliable power supply. I think I would like an 80+bronze PSU, but I could certainly be convinced that that's not a good place to spend money. I think my absolute max load would be 138Watts. I would be very interested in knowing the difference between the various Seasonic PSUs listed below. I couldn't find that information.

• $34 SeaSonic SSP-300SE
• $37 SeaSonic SS-300ES
• $38 SeaSonic SSP-300ST
• $38 SeaSonic SS-300ET
• $40 CORSAIR CX series CX430

My current thoughts
Below are the choices that I would currently make from the above options. The prices shown here are a little low, because lots of these are special offers that I wouldn't qualify for with 30 units.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3250 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor ($55.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($87.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($27.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Intel 530 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($68.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Lian-Li PC-Q01B Mini ITX Tower Case ($54.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 300W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($37.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $333.91
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available. Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-05-27 12:30 EDT-0400

Any thoughts you have about any of the choices would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Viper GTS]

You are fooling yourself if you think you are going to save money doing this. Justify it based on the experience if you want, but the Dell/Lenovo/HP/etc of the world can do this better, faster, and cheaper than you can. And you won't spend weeks tracking down all the issues your students built into them.

There are plenty of i3 based systems with <$400 list prices, with agreements your district probably has in place with one of those manufacturers I'd be shocked if you could not get a more powerful, warrantied machine for the same price (or less).

Viper GTS

 

[Burpo]

You can get the Lenovo ThinkServer without hard drive or with (2nd link). I'm sure the school has OS licenses.
http://cukusa.com/lenovo-thinkserve...c&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_content=S-LE-0001

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YQAZ07GTBHQ1PN7Q361

 

[vailr]

This MSI H81 motherboard is the first to receive Windows 10 certification:
http://www.tweaktown.com/pressrelea...erboard-brand-windows-10-certified/index.html
Creating a system with only a single memory stick is not the best plan. For dual-channel support, memory needs to be installed in matched pairs.
But: as mentioned, Dell/Lenovo/HP may be the better option for lowest overall cost of ownership.
Do you have a group/educational discount on the operating system? Since Windows 10 will be released soon, maybe waiting another few months would be the best plan. Get Windows 10 pre-installed.
TigerDirect.com often has bundled "build your own" systems that may possibly offer some price competition with Dell/Lenovo, however.
Such as, for $279.99 ($309.99, less $30 rebate) :
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9584395&CatId=11846

This Bundle Includes:

• Intel Pentium Unlocked G3258 Processor Socket LGA1150 - Dual Core, 3MB Cache, 3.20GHz Max Speed, 2 Memory Channels, 16 Max PCI Express Lanes - BX80646G3258
• Gigabyte GA-Z97M-DS3H Micro-ATX Motherboard - Intel Z97 Express Chipset, DDR3, SATA III 6Gb/s, USB 3.0, HDMI, DVI-D, RJ-45, HD Audio, 7.1 Channels
• Kingston HyperX Fury Red 4GB Desktop Memory Module - 1866MHz DDR3, CL10, DIMM - HX318C10FR/4
• OCZ ARC 100 SERIES 120GB Internal Solid State Drive - 120GB, 2.5", SATA III, Solid State Drive, 475 MB/s Reads,395 MB/s Writes - ARC100-25SAT3-120G
• Thermaltake VM30001W2Z V4 Black Edition Mid Tower Gaming Case - ATX/MicroATX, USB, Audio, Blue LED fan
• SolidGear 650W Power Supply - ATX, Single 12V Rail, 120mm Nano Fan, Anti-radiation Filter, Short Circuit, Over Voltage & Over Power Protection - SDGR-650E

$319.99 ($349.99 less $30 rebate):
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9590936&CatId=11844

INTEL 4150/GB B85/4GB/1TB/650W/CS
This Bundle Includes:

• Intel Core i3-4150 Processor - 3.5GHz, 2 Cores, 3MB Cache - BX80646I34150
• GIGABYTE Intel® MATX Motherboard - LGA1150 Socket, Intel B85 Express Chipset, 1600MHz DDR3, SATA 6.0 Gb/s, 7.1-Channel Audio, Gigabit LAN, USB 3.0 - GA-B85M-HD3
• ADATA XPG V1 4GB Desktop Memory Module - DDR3 1600, PC3-12800, Blue - AX3U1600C4G11-SD
• Seagate Barracuda 1TB Hard Drive - 7200RPM, 64MB, SATA 6Gb/s - ST1000DM003
• SolidGear 650W Power Supply - ATX, Single 12V Rail, 120mm Nano Fan, Anti-radiation Filter, Short Circuit, Over Voltage & Over Power Protection - SDGR-650E
• Cougar Spike Mini Gaming Tower - 2 x 5.25" Drive Bays, 3 x 3.5" Drive Bays, 1 x 2.5" Drive Bays, 4 x Exp Slots, 1 x 120mm Fan, 2 x USB Ports, 2 x Audio Ports - SPIKE

TD may offer some kind of educational discount (?). Or maybe buying at the lower "after rebate" price, without the need for messing with any rebates.
That might be the better deal, if the existing keyboards & mice are in good condition and can be re-used.
Similar systems bought from Dell/Lenovo/HP would probably come with an operating system license, new mice & keyboards.

 

[CoPhotoGuy]

$350 per machine and future proofing / 5-6 years of use? Uhh...no. Especially with Adobe software lol.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2PF2CK8779&ignorebbr=1

Seriously, buy some of those, and call it a day. Consider buying some i3-2100 CPUs off of ebay, and some 4GB DDR3 DIMMs off of Newegg, if the base specs aren't enough. Maybe a 120GB SSD too.

$95 shipped for the base unit, leaves a lot of money for upgrades.

Edit: I don't see a customer limit on that deal, you're in luck. Hurry!

 

[muskie32]

I would take a look into some virtualization as an alternative for ease of management and deployment.

I use ncomputing units myself.

 

[lsommerer]

$350 per machine and future proofing / 5-6 years of use? Uhh...no. Especially with Adobe software lol.

We don't keep current with Adobe software, but we do use it. We spent $295 per machine 6 years ago and have run CS4 on those machines that entire time. I guess it just depends on your use case.

 

[lsommerer]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2PF2CK8779&ignorebbr=1

Seriously, buy some of those, and call it a day. Consider buying some i3-2100 CPUs off of ebay, and some 4GB DDR3 DIMMs off of Newegg, if the base specs aren't enough. Maybe a 120GB SSD too.

$95 shipped for the base unit, leaves a lot of money for upgrades.

Edit: I don't see a customer limit on that deal, you're in luck. Hurry!

I considered doing that, but I don't think I could get 5+ years use out of those. I'm guessing that they are roughly 5 years old already, and that's about the age when I start to see many more hardware failures.

Granted, I wouldn't have $350 in the machines. I would guess maybe $225, and for that they wouldn't have to last 5 years. If I was going that route, I would probably buy about 40 machines for $50 each at a state surplus auction and have some spares and be in it for less money.

So I'm not saying this is a bad suggestion. Just that it probably won't get me through the next 5 years.

 

[sm625]

I can foresee intel integrated graphic being a major problem in 2020. Just imagine trying to use a computer with a 5 year old GMA 4500 or whatever was the flavor back then. Talk about dog slow and nothing you can do about it. It cant even handle youtube today. Get an A8-7650K. That way it will at least run anything you throw at it 5 years from now. You're not going to have to worry too much about cpu power because more and more software is being developed with machines like the Surface Pro in mind. And this cpu beats that at least.

 

[lsommerer]

I would take a look into some virtualization as an alternative for ease of management and deployment.

I use ncomputing units myself.

I'm very worried about a single point of failure. Maybe I have enough money to keep a backup virtualization server, or run two. I actually (and probably obviously) don't know anything about virtualization. Thanks for the idea.

 

[vailr]

Consider buying some i3-2100 CPUs off of ebay, and some 4GB DDR3 DIMMs off of Newegg, if the base specs aren't enough.

That i3-2100 is socket 1155 and only includes HD 2000 graphics.
http://ark.intel.com/products/53422/Intel-Core-i3-2100-Processor-3M-Cache-3_10-GHz
The i3-4150 (with HD 4400 graphics) is the correct Haswell socket 1150 CPU form factor for the refurbished H81 Lenovo system that you linked to at Newegg.
http://ark.intel.com/products/77486/Intel-Core-i3-4150-Processor-3M-Cache-3_50-GHz

 

[Subyman]

I'd have to side with Viper on this one. Talk to an HP/Dell/Lenovo rep and see what educational discounts and bulk pricing they can give you on prebuilt units. The warranty is key here. At least give them a shot and see if the prices work out well. Building the computers is only a learning experience for the few kids this year that put them together. Having them run smoothly for 5-6 years helps everyone.

 

[lsommerer]

You can get the Lenovo ThinkServer without hard drive or with (2nd link). I'm sure the school has OS licenses.
http://cukusa.com/lenovo-thinkserve...c&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_content=S-LE-0001

That's an interesting idea. Free shipping and adding at SSD brings the cost to $320. I could add another stick of RAM and still be under my price point. I'd feel a little silly with a lab full of server though.

 

[DigDog]

OR,

you could build a $5000 xeon server and run VMs on it. should be enough for 30 people.

oops. looks like someone suggested it already.

 

[vailr]

You can get the Lenovo ThinkServer without hard drive or with (2nd link). I'm sure the school has OS licenses.
http://cukusa.com/lenovo-thinkserve...c&utm_campaign=shopping&utm_content=S-LE-0001

That site mis-labels the Intel HD video on the i3-4130 CPU as being "Intel HD Graphics 2500".
Actually: HD 4400.
http://ark.intel.com/products/77480/Intel-Core-i3-4130-Processor-3M-Cache-3_40-GHz

 

[Gunbuster]

I'd have to side with Viper on this one. Talk to an HP/Dell/Lenovo rep and see what educational discounts and bulk pricing they can give you on prebuilt units. The warranty is key here.

This, this, THIS, so much this. Dell with on site repair warranty. Done.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

This, this, THIS, so much this. Dell with on site repair warranty. Done.

3rd'd.

It would have to be a very, very special case to make a case for building them yourself.

 

[lsommerer]

I'm not ignoring those of you who suggest I should just buy them, but what I'm seeing from my usual vendors (via their websites) are machines with roughly the same specs that come in around $490. That's too much.

But I've sent some emails to my reps to see what they can do. It could be that you're right and I'm better off leaving this to the professionals, but it did work out nicely for us 6 years ago when we put together machines for $295 each. Well, it worked out nicely except for the cases. I picked terrible cases.

 

[vailr]

If your preferrance is for brand new hardware, one of the TD bundle deals seems like the lowest cost solution. The PSU is probably not that great of quality, but the rest of the components seem to meet or exceed your specifications. Buy one or two extra machines as quick backups, and provide spare parts if something fails.
If required, just add a DVD burner and/or 2nd stick of memory.

 

[lsommerer]

If your preferrance is for brand new hardware, one of the TD bundle deals seems like the lowest cost solution. The PSU is probably not that great of quality, but the rest of the components seem to meet or exceed your specifications. Buy one or two extra machines as quick backups, and provide spare parts if something fails.
If required, just add a DVD burner and/or 2nd stick of memory.

I wasn't ignoring your ideas. They were just the most time consuming to follow up on.

If that HMI motherboard is this one, then the ratio of good reviews to bad reviews is a little too high for me. It seems like a great board for what I want to do, but my rule of thumb is that the number of 4&5 star reviews should be at least 5 times as high as the number of 1&2 star reviews. I realize that people with poor experiences are more likely to leave reviews. On the plus side, most of the bad reviews were DOAs, and that's pretty easy to take care of if you're not pressed for time.

Those bundles do look good. But you're right, it seems like a different PSU would be in order for each of them (or just wait until they die I guess). Some people reported those dying and taking other components with it though.

I don't order from Tiger Direct anymore. Their prices are good, but when something goes wrong, my experience is that there's not much you can do about it. That was from a couple of incidents about 15 years ago, so maybe they are better now.

I have been looking at combo deals from other places thanks to your advice.

 

[Burpo]

That's why Lenovo or Dell makes sense. 30 machines, 1 year no hassle warranty.

 

[Gunbuster]

Don't pay attention to the dell and others web pricing. 25% or more off is possible if the rep is motivated.

 

[mfenn]

OR,

you could build a $5000 xeon server and run VMs on it. should be enough for 30 people.

oops. looks like someone suggested it already.

I think the problem with VDI on this budget is that even the thin/zero clients are going to cost as much as the OP is looking to spent per seat in total. Not to mention the licensing costs.

 

[mfenn]

You are fooling yourself if you think you are going to save money doing this. Justify it based on the experience if you want, but the Dell/Lenovo/HP/etc of the world can do this better, faster, and cheaper than you can. And you won't spend weeks tracking down all the issues your students built into them.

There are plenty of i3 based systems with <$400 list prices, with agreements your district probably has in place with one of those manufacturers I'd be shocked if you could not get a more powerful, warrantied machine for the same price (or less).

Viper GTS

:thumbsup: to this. My first thought upon reading " Building 30 machines for a school computer lab. Any advice appreciated..." was "don't".

I think the only way to justify it would be as a learning experience. The TCO of an off the shelf Dell/HP/Lenovo is much lower than a self-built machine.