Buiding a Dual Xeon 3D Studio Workstation

mleoanrd77

Junior Member
Oct 28, 2004
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I?m planning to build a new computer for the 3D rendering and animation I do with 3D Studio Max 6 (soon to upgrade to ver.7). I?m still use the default scan line renderer and avoid raytraced materials & lighting to keep my render time down. With my new workstation I would like to begin using the Mental Ray renderer (packaged with Max) and more raytraced materials & lighting.

My current system is:
- AMD Athlon XP3000+400FSB
- Abit AN7 266/333/400MHz FSB; AGP 8X/4X
- 1 GB Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PRO
- ATI Fire GL X1 128 MB AGP
- Western Digital WD200JBRTL 200 GB
- Windows XP Professional

Shortly after buying this system I realized it wasn?t as stable and powerful as I would of liked, and now I would like to move to a Dual Intel Xeon system. As you see I have a new and pricey video card that is AGP, I missed seeing PCI Express becoming the standard in high end video cards, and can not afford to upgrade this card yet. As I look at dual Xeon motherboards they are now mostly PCI Express and few have AGP.

So, what are some recommendations you have for 3D Workstation with the above criteria? I?ve done some research, and below is what I?ve found on my own. Price is somewhat important in so far as I get the best performance for the dollar. Any suggestions on these choices? Is an Intel motherboard more stable than Tyan? Do I need to match the chips FSB to the motherboards FSB?


Intel #SE7505VB2 Motherboard; Dual Intel Xeon processors with 512KB L2 cache
using Intel E7505 chipset; 533/400 MHz FSB; 1.5V AGP 8X Pro 80 slot; Onboard SATA Silicon Image - 3112A; 4X ECC DDR 266 SDRAM Max 8GB ($329)

Intel Xeon 2.8 GHz with EMT 64, 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology ($214 x 2 = $428)

Corsair 184-Pin 512MB ECC Reg DDR PC-2100, Model CM72SD512RLP-2100 ($108 x 2 = $216)

ATI Fire GL X1 128 MB AGP (already own)

Western Digital 74 GB SATA Raptor 10,000 RPM (WD740GD) (Main system drive: $179)

Western Digital 120 GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD1200JBRTL (Swap & storage: already own)

Enermax #EG425P-VE 420 watt power supply (already own)

Windows XP Professional (already own)


Total: $1152 (prices from Newegg.com)
 

Adul

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
32,999
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danny.tangtam.com
not bad at all, but only PC2100??? you will be choking the bandwitdh on your system pretty bad with that. you need to go with pc3200 to truly even get the performance out of it
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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That board is incompatbile with those nocona 800fsb chips!!!

Get an Asus NCCH-DL...cheaper...runs the 800fsb chips though check to see if it supports the 64bit stuff....Also it does not require the more expensive and slower ECC ram....

Also food for thought...

I bought a 6800NU and modded it to a soft quadro and with my core/me speeds I rate higher then a FX4000 and all for 245 shipped....

I eat X2's. I downloaded Maxextreme drivers for Max 7 and power draft drivers for Autocadd 2004 and it is like phenomenal the speed increase in working with the 3dmodels...It obvioulsy doesn't help the render speed, but your dual cpus will handle that nicely....Evene a chepaer HT solution P4 does nicely gaining 19-22% gains in rendering in 3dmax sister companion the ADt2004 which I run.....
 

Dubb

Platinum Member
Mar 25, 2003
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In addtion to what duvie said...

I was in a similar situation looking at a similar rig for simialr purposes not too long ago.

Seconded on the NCCH-dl or the PC-DL. I went PC-DL, but I think now I should've spent a bit more on the NCCH. and with either of these boards, your registered ram will not work. look for some quality stuff that's rated for 2.5 or 2.6 volts, both these boards are a tad weak on ram voltage.

How long before your next upgrade? I you think it will be a couple years, consider non-em64t 400 or 533 fsb xeons...and overclock them. much cheaper, and you'll likely get better performance. I have c1 stepping 1.6 Ghz low voltage xeons at 2.6, I've seen d1 stepping 1.6s go to 2.8-3.3, and 2.4 m0s regularly hit 3.4.

the kicker is that d1 stepping LV 1.6s are about $100 a pair. that's tough to beat. 2cpu.com forums will be able to answer all your questions.

If you time things right you're next upgrade will fall somewhere around when 64 bit windows and 64 bit 3dmax are viable options

also- consider two 36G raptors instead of one 74G. put your pagefile and 3dmax install on the second drive, you'll see slightly better performance and max will load quicker.

and you will likely need a better power supply. 550w antec 12v eps is popular, as is the PPC&C 510

Duvie - maxtreme for max 7 is out already? ...off to dl new driver.

 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
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Dubb, the PC-DL was still a 533MHz board. The NCCH-DL is necessary for 800MHz.

I have a Vantec PSU, which supports the EVS-12V out of the box.
 

Dubb

Platinum Member
Mar 25, 2003
2,495
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Originally posted by: gsellis
Dubb, the PC-DL was still a 533MHz board. The NCCH-DL is necessary for 800MHz.

I have a Vantec PSU, which supports the EVS-12V out of the box.

no, the pc-dl can do 800fsb and beyond, it just can't do noconas :) my pc-dl is running 13x204 atm

there are jumper settings for either auto, 100 fsb (x4), 133, and 200. you can also trick it into 166, but you need to hold insert when you boot.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
26,711
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OK, no flames please, but I just googled for benchmarks, and it would seem that dual Opterons would beat dual Xeons for this application.
Looking here

Is this a possibility ? I don't know anything about the Xeon setup, but just my 2 cents....
 

Dubb

Platinum Member
Mar 25, 2003
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Originally posted by: Markfw900
OK, no flames please, but I just googled for benchmarks, and it would seem that dual Opterons would beat dual Xeons for this application.
http://www.zdnet.com.au/review...397,39157363-12,00.htm

Is this a possibility ? I don't know anything about the Xeon setup, but just my 2 cents....

Markfw, your link is messed up...If I found the page I think you tried to link to, I'm not sure it shows what you think it does. It looks like those are seconds as in rendering time, so less is better. But even that I would take with a grain of salt, workstation benchmarks are tricky, depend highly on the rendering engine used (he says he's moving to mental ray, so MR benches would be more indicative of the performance he could expect)

the big thing is cost/performance. depending on which benches you look at, the best opterons are either very competative to better than the best xeons. but in the budget sector, especially if you overclock, equivalent to near equivalent performing xeon systems are much, much cheaper - as I noted, LV xeons that do 2.8-3.3 are around $100 a pair.

Not that I'm saying he shouldn't look into opterons, Running at stock speeds it's a closer comparison, and I think when the dual core optys come around the price/performance issue will get shaken up a bit.

not trying to flame or be a fanboi, just my opinion
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Dubb: And a well spoken and thoughtful one it is ! I really don't know all the criteria here for sure, I allways just look at the benchmarks, and the upgrade path for every recommendation I make. There are two sides to everything, and you make good points. If he is interested, he will reply, and we can add to it. Also, you are right ! The opterons actually loose in this test (silly me)......
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
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Originally posted by: Dubb
Originally posted by: gsellis
Dubb, the PC-DL was still a 533MHz board. The NCCH-DL is necessary for 800MHz.

I have a Vantec PSU, which supports the EVS-12V out of the box.

no, the pc-dl can do 800fsb and beyond, it just can't do noconas :) my pc-dl is running 13x204 atm

there are jumper settings for either auto, 100 fsb (x4), 133, and 200. you can also trick it into 166, but you need to hold insert when you boot.
Did you do the VDIMM mod? I have the 1.05 v of the board, which still appears to be the latest version. I know that the jumpers unblocked are supposed to go to 200, but without the VDIMM mod, the memory is at the wrong voltage IIRC.
 

Dubb

Platinum Member
Mar 25, 2003
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Originally posted by: gsellis
Originally posted by: Dubb
Originally posted by: gsellis
Dubb, the PC-DL was still a 533MHz board. The NCCH-DL is necessary for 800MHz.

I have a Vantec PSU, which supports the EVS-12V out of the box.

no, the pc-dl can do 800fsb and beyond, it just can't do noconas :) my pc-dl is running 13x204 atm

there are jumper settings for either auto, 100 fsb (x4), 133, and 200. you can also trick it into 166, but you need to hold insert when you boot.
Did you do the VDIMM mod? I have the 1.05 v of the board, which still appears to be the latest version. I know that the jumpers unblocked are supposed to go to 200, but without the VDIMM mod, the memory is at the wrong voltage IIRC.


not the wrong voltage, but it might be a tad low depending on the ram. my crucial PC3200 did fine at 13x200 no mods, but I did the easy .08v mod anyway to get a nice 2.55 minimum, and I may do the full out pot mod just to see where I can get.

I've read on 2cpu that some high performance ram (ballistix) will do >200fsb with no mods, as will some bargain ram sticks rated for 2.5v - adata I think. You would certainly need a vdim mod for 200FSB using BH-5/6 or other juice hungry ram.
 

mleoanrd77

Junior Member
Oct 28, 2004
5
0
0
Very good suggestions! I knew little about memory speeds or FSB?s. I like Duvie?s suggestion of the Asus NCCH-DL, looks like I have the option of upgrading my AGP card to PCI Express in the future!

I wonder about the memory I have in my current system. I paid quit a bit for the 1GB (512MBx2) Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PRO. Is this memory good enough for my new Intel Xeon system? I looked back at its specs and it?s Non-ECC, 2.6V support voltage, unbuffered, and a 3.2GB/s bandwidth. My current AMD system will retire to a Media Player/DRV, so maybe I can get some value RAM to replace the good stuff? I?m going to assume this for now

As for overclocking, I have no intention of overclocking as stability is very important to me. Further, my choice of Intel gives me confidence in the cpu?s stablilty. The chart that was linked, describes Intel Xeon superior in 3D Studio Max 6, which further validates my choice.

So here is the new selections for the 3D Studio Max Workstation after the great advice:

Asus NCCH-DL; Dual Intel Nocoana Xeon / 875P / 64 Bit / 800/533FSB / 2 x 3.V/64-bit/66MHz PCI-X / AGP Pro/8X / SATA / 1MB L2 Cache / GBE / Dual Channel PC3200 ECC Unbuffered / ATX Motherboard ($245)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-NCCH-DL&src=fr

Intel Xeon 2.8GHz 800MHz FC-MPGA4 604pin 1MB CPU OEM (is this Nocoana? $213 x 2 = $416)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=X2.8D_1M

1 GB Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PRO (512MBx2); Dual channel, CAS Latency 2 in Intel, 200MHz(2-3-3) (already own)
http://www.monarchcomputer.com...=M&Product_Code=140917

ATI Fire GL X1 128 MB AGP 8x (already own)

2 X Western Digital Raptor 360D 63.GB SATA 10K rpm 8MB Hard Drive (as suggested by Dubb, $112 x 2 = $224)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=HD-D360GD

Western Digital 120 GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD1200JBRTL (Storage, already own)

Antec True 550 EPS 12V 550W Power supply (but it?s not SATA, does it matter? $103)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-TRU550I&show=p

Case: Mine as well upgrade this too? Cooling is most important as is noise. A case that could be either rackmount OR mid-tower would be nice too. (Price ???)

Total 3D Workstation: $988

For retired AMD Athlon XP3000+, Abit AN7 system, to be a Media Center/DVR:

[/b]1 GB PC3200 DDR400 Kingston Original Memory[/b] (512MBx2) (do I need ECC? $74 x 2 = $148)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=D512M400KI
 

Dubb

Platinum Member
Mar 25, 2003
2,495
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Originally posted by: mleoanrd77
Very good suggestions! I knew little about memory speeds or FSB?s. I like Duvie?s suggestion of the Asus NCCH-DL, looks like I have the option of upgrading my AGP card to PCI Express in the future!

I wonder about the memory I have in my current system. I paid quit a bit for the 1GB (512MBx2) Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PRO. Is this memory good enough for my new Intel Xeon system? I looked back at its specs and it?s Non-ECC, 2.6V support voltage, unbuffered, and a 3.2GB/s bandwidth. My current AMD system will retire to a Media Player/DRV, so maybe I can get some value RAM to replace the good stuff? I?m going to assume this for now

As for overclocking, I have no intention of overclocking as stability is very important to me. Further, my choice of Intel gives me confidence in the cpu?s stablilty. The chart that was linked, describes Intel Xeon superior in 3D Studio Max 6, which further validates my choice.

So here is the new selections for the 3D Studio Max Workstation after the great advice:

Asus NCCH-DL; Dual Intel Nocoana Xeon / 875P / 64 Bit / 800/533FSB / 2 x 3.V/64-bit/66MHz PCI-X / AGP Pro/8X / SATA / 1MB L2 Cache / GBE / Dual Channel PC3200 ECC Unbuffered / ATX Motherboard ($245)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-NCCH-DL&src=fr

Intel Xeon 2.8GHz 800MHz FC-MPGA4 604pin 1MB CPU OEM (is this Nocoana? $213 x 2 = $416)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=X2.8D_1M

1 GB Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2PRO (512MBx2); Dual channel, CAS Latency 2 in Intel, 200MHz(2-3-3) (already own)
http://www.monarchcomputer.com...=M&Product_Code=140917

ATI Fire GL X1 128 MB AGP 8x (already own)

2 X Western Digital Raptor 360D 63.GB SATA 10K rpm 8MB Hard Drive (as suggested by Dubb, $112 x 2 = $224)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=HD-D360GD

Western Digital 120 GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD1200JBRTL (Storage, already own)

Antec True 550 EPS 12V 550W Power supply (but it?s not SATA, does it matter? $103)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-TRU550I&show=p

Case: Mine as well upgrade this too? Cooling is most important as is noise. A case that could be either rackmount OR mid-tower would be nice too. (Price ???)

Total 3D Workstation: $988

For retired AMD Athlon XP3000+, Abit AN7 system, to be a Media Center/DVR:

[/b]1 GB PC3200 DDR400 Kingston Original Memory[/b] (512MBx2) (do I need ECC? $74 x 2 = $148)
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=D512M400KI


common mistake, but pci-x is not pci-express. you can't put a pci-e graphics card in that board.

you ram should be fine.

and I suppose I should note that opterons aren't exactly unstable or poor performers (again, that chart probably isn't worth much in terms of real world performance). but I would agree that intel is the way to go for the price point you're looking at.

one thing to note: intel stock cooling fans are pretty loud. Many folks upgrade to a pair of coolermaster xeon -01 or -04 heatpipe heatsinks and wire-tie some quiet 80mm fans to them. But the sinks alone will set you back another $90 after shipping, it seems the only place that sells them is orbit micro. for your board and your processors you want the -04s.

good luck!
 

sharkeeper

Lifer
Jan 13, 2001
10,886
2
0
Forget the Asus board, it's not a real workstation board. Get the Supermicro X6DAE-G2. It will support your Nacona processors, uses DDR-2, ECC (a must on any workstation), large memory support, PCI-E (SLI if you want!), and true 133 MHz PCI-X support for bandwidth hungry SCSI HBA's. :)

Cheers!
 

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
18,998
0
0
I've got a couple of Zippy HP2-6460P 460 Watters up on eBay at $95. shipped (less than newegg was selling them for, $106.+sh - now OOS but it's nearly identical to the HP2-6500 on there at over $120. shipped). Just search on Zippy and you'll find 'em.
.bh.