Buick ties Lexus for No. 1 in car reliability

[Vette73]

Buick ties Lexus for No. 1 in car reliability


"Owners of the top-ranked Lexus and Buick vehicles experienced 145 problems per 100 vehicles. Owners of second-ranked Cadillac vehicles experienced 162 problems per 100 vehicles."


So Buick and Lexus with Caddy right behind them for the tops in reliability.

 

[Pliablemoose]

How could that be?

Everyone knows Toyota makes the best of everything [/thread]

 

[Scouzer]

I hate these articles. I wish they just had the handy little chart they used to have. Now they have big long articles that leave most brand names unmentioned.

 

[PricklyPete]

I'm just waiting for the "I only trust Consumer Reports" crowd who will crown Toyota and Honda as the only reliable car manufacturers once again.

This is great news for Buick/Cadillac/GM now that Buick finally has a car that people under the age of 60 actually want (Enclave) and should certainly help Caddillac with the upcoming CTS that even I (at the age of 29) would readily consider. Now if Buick can come out with a LaCrosse that actually matches up well with a Lexus ES350 (take the upcoming Malibu and spruce it up like an Enclave)...Buick might actually start making money again here in the states.

I do have to say that it is worth commenting on the fact that the American brands highest up on the list tend to be brands driven by people over 60. That subgroup of people may be less likely to complain about problems with their cars versus younger, more discerning buyers with higher expectations of build quality/reliability (these older people did live through the many years where American cars were absolute crap.). This could be part of the reason these American brands do so well.

 

[iamwiz82]

I don't trust any of these surveys because there are too many factors.

Buicks/Mercurys are owned by older people who generally don't complain about little things not working, if they even notice. Maintenance is always completed as scheduled and the car is never taxed.

Toyota drivers will blow Toyota's reliability even after major issues. I have seen it on this forum. "Oh, my Toyota ate it's camshaft, I'm going to buy another one!"

For example, from JD Powers:

In terms of new truck sales, the Detroit 3 dominate the Japanese nameplates. But when it comes to dependability, consumers say that Toyota Motor Corporation is building the highest-ranked pickups and multi-activity vehicles with the exception of the midsize MAV segment, in which the Oldsmobile Bravada ranks highest.

Another example, Acura's powertrains are rated 3/5, the same as Dodge, but Honda's are rated 5/5, but Honda and Acura share a fair number of powertrain pieces.

BTW, Nissan fell apart, eh? 2/5?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I don't trust any of these surveys because there are too many factors.

Buicks/Mercurys are owned by older people who generally don't complain about little things not working, if they even notice. Maintenance is always completed as scheduled and the car is never taxed.

Toyota drivers will blow Toyota's reliability even after major issues. I have seen it on this forum. "Oh, my Toyota ate it's camshaft, I'm going to buy another one!"

For example, from JD Powers:

In terms of new truck sales, the Detroit 3 dominate the Japanese nameplates. But when it comes to dependability, consumers say that Toyota Motor Corporation is building the highest-ranked pickups and multi-activity vehicles with the exception of the midsize MAV segment, in which the Oldsmobile Bravada ranks highest.

Another example, Acura's powertrains are rated 3/5, the same as Dodge, but Honda's are rated 5/5, but Honda and Acura share a fair number of powertrain pieces.

BTW, Nissan fell apart, eh? 2/5?

You would also know that Honda uses more smaller and lower power setups while Acura has the larger and/or more powered up motors. Honda is not known for their transmissions so a lot of acura have problems. And nissan has never been really high in terms of reliability. Just there are a lot of fanboys here that prop them up. I did a lot of work on nissians when i was a autotech.

Also where do you get that Buick/Mercury is for old people? Is that like Faux News reporting, you say it enough it must be true? I have owned a Buick and so has a friend of mine when he was in college. My grandmother looked at some buicks but went with the Pontiac ram air GT. Buick has been going after a different group for a long time.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I don't trust any of these surveys because there are too many factors.

Buicks/Mercurys are owned by older people who generally don't complain about little things not working, if they even notice. Maintenance is always completed as scheduled and the car is never taxed.

Toyota drivers will blow Toyota's reliability even after major issues. I have seen it on this forum. "Oh, my Toyota ate it's camshaft, I'm going to buy another one!"

For example, from JD Powers:

In terms of new truck sales, the Detroit 3 dominate the Japanese nameplates. But when it comes to dependability, consumers say that Toyota Motor Corporation is building the highest-ranked pickups and multi-activity vehicles with the exception of the midsize MAV segment, in which the Oldsmobile Bravada ranks highest.

Another example, Acura's powertrains are rated 3/5, the same as Dodge, but Honda's are rated 5/5, but Honda and Acura share a fair number of powertrain pieces.

BTW, Nissan fell apart, eh? 2/5?

You would also know that Honda uses more smaller and lower power setups while Acura has the larger and/or more powered up motors. Honda is not known for their transmissions so a lot of acura have problems. And nissan has never been really high in terms of reliability. Just there are a lot of fanboys here that prop them up. I did a lot of work on nissians when i was a autotech.

Also where do you get that Buick/Mercury is for old people? Is that like Faux News reporting, you say it enough it must be true? I have owned a Buick and so has a friend of mine when he was in college. My grandmother looked at some buicks but went with the Pontiac ram air GT. Buick has been going after a different group for a long time.

You are right, two people owning them, it must be true! 95% of the time, a young person driving a late-model Buick means that their grandparents gave it to them as a hand-me-down. To say that Buick/Mercury isn't aiming at an older audience is absurd. For 2006, half of all Mercury cars sold were Grand Marquis.

Shannon said the average Buick car buyer is about 67 years old, while the average Buick SUV driver is about 53 or 54. That has its benefits, he said, because older buyers tend to be loyal to the brand and typically are more financially stable.

"Over time, with the products we have, we will probably get a little bit younger," Shannon said. "Getting younger is not an objective, per say."

 

[R Nilla]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I don't trust any of these surveys because there are too many factors.

Buicks/Mercurys are owned by older people who generally don't complain about little things not working, if they even notice. Maintenance is always completed as scheduled and the car is never taxed.

Toyota drivers will blow Toyota's reliability even after major issues. I have seen it on this forum. "Oh, my Toyota ate it's camshaft, I'm going to buy another one!"

I have often wondered to what extent these surveys are a reflection of the demographic behind the brand rather than the actual reliability/performance of the brand itself. I generally don't trust surveys or statistics, at least in a case like this, as they can be easily manipulated or misinterpreted, especially when you are dealing with so many factors.

I think these types of surveys can provide a decent general guide, but ultimately you need to do extensive research on the particular model(s) in which you're interested (although sometimes I have found this backs up the survey data, but maybe that's because it's the same people who took the surveys ranting on the internet 😛).

I say all of this, but yet I was dissuaded from considering any German brands and bought a Honda 😱. Although I did research the models I was considering and found too many issues with the ones that just so happened to be further down on the reliability charts.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Too bad they don't factor in mileage of the vehicles. That would really tell us something. The faster the mileage accumulates, the sooner you'll have durability issues.

I'm always skeptical of Buick considering their demographic. Of course your vehicle will be reliable if its garaged 4 days a week.

 

[desy]

The avg age of a Camry owner is 55 and you know those people are pushing those 4 bangers to the MAX!
:roll:
Good for Buick, I was seriously considering one of those when I pulled the trigger on the Versa

 

[mwmorph]

It's not hard t believe, 3 years ago, the reliability being compared are the Buick Centurys which had been around for, well, centuries. 3800 V6, reliable but utterly uncompetitive performance-wise, chassis from the 20th century, and lack of any real fancy electronics.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I'm always skeptical of any reliability info because of how owner dependant cars are. The cars that top the list are the ones that people drop off at the dealership with a credit card every three months while the lower you go on the list the more likely the car was treated like Ike treated Tina.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
I'm always skeptical of any reliability info because of how owner dependant cars are. The cars that top the list are the ones that people drop off at the dealership with a credit card every three months while the lower you go on the list the more likely the car was treated like Ike treated Tina.

lol so true 🙂

I have a Buick, btw. 193k miles and still strong, LeSabre. It's DEFINITELY an old man car, though I'm 30 (old to some people). It holds the baby seat very well, and plenty of room for 5 passengers, a stroller in the trunk, and still gets nearly 30mpg on the freeway for those dreaded trips to Dallas.

My Brother's old TL had the infamous transmission failure. I must say, though : even though the car was outside of it's powertrain warranty, the dealer replaced it free and clear with a new one. 🙂

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I don't trust any of these surveys because there are too many factors.

Buicks/Mercurys are owned by older people who generally don't complain about little things not working, if they even notice. Maintenance is always completed as scheduled and the car is never taxed.

Toyota drivers will blow Toyota's reliability even after major issues. I have seen it on this forum. "Oh, my Toyota ate it's camshaft, I'm going to buy another one!"

For example, from JD Powers:

In terms of new truck sales, the Detroit 3 dominate the Japanese nameplates. But when it comes to dependability, consumers say that Toyota Motor Corporation is building the highest-ranked pickups and multi-activity vehicles with the exception of the midsize MAV segment, in which the Oldsmobile Bravada ranks highest.

Another example, Acura's powertrains are rated 3/5, the same as Dodge, but Honda's are rated 5/5, but Honda and Acura share a fair number of powertrain pieces.

BTW, Nissan fell apart, eh? 2/5?

You would also know that Honda uses more smaller and lower power setups while Acura has the larger and/or more powered up motors. Honda is not known for their transmissions so a lot of acura have problems. And nissan has never been really high in terms of reliability. Just there are a lot of fanboys here that prop them up. I did a lot of work on nissians when i was a autotech.

Also where do you get that Buick/Mercury is for old people? Is that like Faux News reporting, you say it enough it must be true? I have owned a Buick and so has a friend of mine when he was in college. My grandmother looked at some buicks but went with the Pontiac ram air GT. Buick has been going after a different group for a long time.

You are right, two people owning them, it must be true! 95% of the time, a young person driving a late-model Buick means that their grandparents gave it to them as a hand-me-down. To say that Buick/Mercury isn't aiming at an older audience is absurd. For 2006, half of all Mercury cars sold were Grand Marquis.

Shannon said the average Buick car buyer is about 67 years old, while the average Buick SUV driver is about 53 or 54. That has its benefits, he said, because older buyers tend to be loyal to the brand and typically are more financially stable.

"Over time, with the products we have, we will probably get a little bit younger," Shannon said. "Getting younger is not an objective, per say."

You do know that the average ago of a toyota driver is close to 50, above the average age for a buyer. So I guess toyota sucks since only people over 45 buy them and we all know that you can;t trust reliability numbers from old people. They never complain about anything.

The average ago of a buick driver has been dropping for a while now. While toyota has either remained flat or increased.

 

[SilthDraeth]

What you fail to realize is Lexus is a Toyota brand, so even though the Toyota brand itself is 6th Lexus, is tied for first, which is owned by Toyota, meaning Toyota holds both 1st, and 6th. Plus... if you look at the chart, counting Lexus as Toyota, as well as Scion being a Toyota brand, Toyota holds the best spot in 10 out of the 19 best vehicles by category. I would hazard a guess to say they are still number 1.

Sub-compact car Scion xA
Compact car Honda Civic
Compact sport car Mazda Miata
Midsize sporty car Chevrolet SSR/Ford Mustang (tie)
Mdisize car Buick Century
Large car Ford Crown Victoria
Compact premium sporty car Honda S2000
Entry premium car Infiniti I35
Midsize premium car Lexus GS
Large premium car Lexus LS
Premium sporty car Lexus SC
Compact SUV Toyota Rav4
Midsize SUV Oldsmobile Bravada
Large SUV Toyota Sequoia
Large Pickup Toyoya Tundra
Midsize pickup Toyota Tacoma
Van Oldsmobile Silhouette
Midsize premium SUV Lexus GX
Large premium SUV Lexus LX

 

[Ktulu]

So these are 2004 models on the report, right? It'll be interesting to see how the domestics fair with their newer products. Heck they're still evaluating the Cavalier in this report.

 

[Summitdrinker]

if you have a 3 or 4 year old grand marquis or crown vic, what is there to do in the first 80,000 miles? oil and filter, air filter, tires and brakes..............................maybe new shocks which are cheap and easy to do. at 80,000 it's best to put a new belt in it, (not the timing belt, it has chains) plus new spark plugs that's about it.............................for the next 80,000 miles

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
if you have a 3 or 4 year old grand marquis or crown vic, what is there to do in the first 80,000 miles? oil and filter, air filter, tires and brakes..............................maybe new shocks which are cheap and easy to do. at 80,000 it's best to put a new belt in it, (not the timing belt, it has chains) plus new spark plugs that's about it.............................for the next 80,000 miles

Does the battery last that long? J/K

 

[Summitdrinker]

ok maybe battery, there HD from the factory, I have had them last 5 to 6 years up here in the north

well my 94 grand marquis has 215,000 miles on it, it on it's second or third battery, unsure, it needs new plugs now, it's on it's second set, it still on it's second belt, it's only had one brake job in the back, one new set of shocks (shocks, not struts), I can replace the front shocks in less than 1/2 hour with no special tools
exhaust has never been worked on, all the ball joints are original except for the tie rod ends.

all wheel bearing are original, the u joints (not cv joints) have never been replaced
the hoses under the hood have never been touched

I spent 7 dollars in the last year on repairs, the factory block heater freeze plug started leaking, the rubber o ring gave out

last weekend I pulled my 2000 pound plus bass boat in the heat for about 300 miles.

oh ya tranny has never been worked on except for fluid drain and refill, there is a drain plug in TQ for that. I do it myself every 30,000 to 50,000 miles,
that cost about 25 dollars a time

I think one of the headlight bulbs is original too

 

[woodie1]

Since you insist, I've had the timing chain stretch to the point of needing replacement at around 110-120K miles on some these.

 

[Summitdrinker]

well how come mine has never been replaced, I keep the car running well, change oil at 3000 to 4000 miles with a napa gold oil filter

I use 5w30 motorcraft syn blend, or trop-artic syn blend

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Shannon said the average Buick car buyer is about 67 years old, while the average Buick SUV driver is about 53 or 54. That has its benefits, he said, because older buyers tend to be loyal to the brand and typically are more financially stable.

"Over time, with the products we have, we will probably get a little bit younger," Shannon said. "Getting younger is not an objective, per say."

That's not very forward looking. Maybe today's old people are buying Buicks, but that's what they grew up with. If no young people are buying Buicks right now, what makes them think that in 50 years they'll say "gee, I've been driving Toyota for decades, but now that I'm old I want a Buick"?

 

[Summitdrinker]

the chinese buy Buicks..................

?????????? is it only old chinamen that buy them or younger people too?????????????😀😉

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: Summitdrinker
the chinese buy Buicks..................

?????????? is it only old chinamen that buy them or younger people too?????????????😀😉

Dude, chinamen isn't the preferred nomenclature.

on topic: I can vouch for panther chassis reliability (1997 Town Car running great, maybe needs new plugs).

But I can also vouch for the tauruses throwing problems. I was driving a 2001 when the compressor seized and the belt started throwing a hell of a lot of smoke out of the hood. Luckily didn't break the belt, and the ac clutch was in working order so I just switched the ac off and drove home. Also had a '91 Sable that suffered complete transmission failure, but it was at about 220k so I feel that the vehicle did it's time and wasn't that upset at the failure.

 

[Summitdrinker]

ya I know, but it's just a joke, no offense intended
what would you call them elderly chinese men?

yep taurus's and sable are known for tranny/trans axle failures between 120 and 160 K miles, plus compressor bearings going out, those compessors aren't cheap

plus the older 4.6's are hard on plug wires, allways buy a good set, not cheapies