Buick Enclave/Saturn Vue/Chevy Equinox/GMC Acadia........*and*.....Ford Edge vs. the imports......

[redgtxdi]

Watching the Buick golf tourny today, the Enclave really does look nice in the commercials, but I just gotta wonder............(shown at $35K as what you see on TV)..........it' still a freakin' GM.

Does anyone dare REALISTICALLY compare these cars (or something like the Ford Edge) to stuff like the RX350 or Infiniti/Acura, etc.???

Not to mention the fact that the 3.6L Chevy motor and the 3.5L Ford motor, both don't seem to exactly wow anybody in terms of efficiency. (Then again, I'm sure all cars in this mid-SUV class are realistically in the teens for MPG anyway............just dunno how to compare to American........errrr..........junk?)

 

[Dr. Detroit]

The Hyundai VeraCruz basiclly dethroned the Lexus RX in a recent MotorTrend Article.

I'm guessing the Buick Enclave will demolish all $35K+ competitors.

http://www.motortrend.com/road..._veracruz_lexus_rx350/

 

[vi edit]

The Lambdas (GM triplets) are huge. You have to see them in person to really understand their size. They are nearly the size of a Tahoe. The are in a completely different size class than the Lexus RDX and are $10,000 cheaper and still bigger than the MDX. They are incredible vehicles and should be an enormous seller for GM. I'm actually musing the idea of the Enclave to replace my wife's Highlander.

RX350:
Length: 186.2 in.
Width: 72.6 in.
Height: 66.1 in.
Wheel Base: 106.9 in.
Ground Clearance: 7.5 in.
Curb Weight: 4090 lbs.
Luggage Capacity: 38.3 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 85 cu. ft.
Gas milage: 17 mpg / 22 mpg

------------------------

MDX:
Length: 190.7 in.
Width: 78.5 in.
Height: 65.9 in.
Wheel Base: 108.3 in.
Ground Clearance: 7.3 in.
Curb Weight: 4539 lbs.
Luggage Capacity: 15 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 84 cu. ft.
Gas Milage: 17 mpg / 22 mpg

----------------------------

Buick Enclave:
Length: 201.8 in.
Width: 79 in.
Height: 72.2 in.
Wheel Base: 118.9 in.
Ground Clearance: 8.4 in.
Curb Weight: 4985 lbs.
Luggage Capacity: 18.9 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 116 cu. ft.
Milage: 16 mpg / 22 mpg

------------------------------

Tahoe:
Length: 202 in.
Width: 79 in.
Height: 76.9 in.
Wheel Base: 116 in.
Ground Clearance: 9.1 in.
Curb Weight: 5524 lbs.
Luggage Capacity: 16.9 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 109 cu. ft.
Milage: 15 mpg / 20 mpg

 

[Arkaign]

Nice, and impressible fuel economy for a vehicle of that size! I do wish that more people drove cars with 25/35 or better fuel economy, but some people *need* the space on a constant basis.

Of course, in the mid-90s, I drove a beastly '77 El Camino that probably got about 6/9mpg But it was pretty much a drag car, I had no business driving it on city streets. Fun times

 

[ElFenix]

umm... in JD power's 2006 vehicle dependability study (the 3 year one, and the latest one available), buick beat acura and killed infiniti. the only brands that beat buick were mercury and lexus. ford's quality seems to be rapidly improving with the mazda6 platform as a base for it's vehicles (including the edge).

as for the engines, if you can tell the difference between a 265 hp motor and a 270 hp motor i'll eat my hat. plus, the edge uses regular sludge while the lexus appears to use premium (10.8:1 compression ratio), and theoretically gets better mileage anyway.


not to mention that the RX looks like a boat from the front. seriously, it looks like you could just drive it into the lake and float away. same with the mdx.

 

[Ktulu]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: redgtxdi
it' still a freakin' GM.
</end quote></div>

So f*cking what?

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Not to mention the fact that the 3.6L Chevy motor and the 3.5L Ford motor, both don't seem to exactly wow anybody in terms of efficiency. (Then again, I'm sure all cars in this mid-SUV class are realistically in the teens for MPG anyway............just dunno how to compare to American........errrr..........junk?)</end quote></div>

FYI, the 3.6L in the new CTS gets 300+ hp and runs on regular. Also, the 3.6L in the Enclave has more hp than the RX's 3.5L.

 

[vi edit]

FYI, the 3.6L in the new CTS gets 300+ hp and runs on regular. Also, the 3.6L in the Enclave has more hp than the RX's 3.5L.

Rumor has it that once GM gets caught up on the CTS engines with the 300HP direct injection they'll be dropping them into the Enclave.

Hopefully that happens in the next year or so.

 

[DougK62]

Fanboy alert! :roll:

Yes, other vehicles can be just as good as (and even better than) your precious Japanese cars.

The GM 3.6 and Ford 3.5 have been getting great reviews. A 3.6 with 300hp that runs on REGULAR gas? I'll take one.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: DougK62
Fanboy alert! :roll:

Yes, other vehicles can be just as good as (and even better than) your precious Japanese cars.

The GM 3.6 and Ford 3.5 have been getting great reviews. A 3.6 with 300hp that runs on REGULAR gas? I'll take one.

with a 93 octane tune

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DougK62
Fanboy alert! :roll:

Yes, other vehicles can be just as good as (and even better than) your precious Japanese cars.

The GM 3.6 and Ford 3.5 have been getting great reviews. A 3.6 with 300hp that runs on REGULAR gas? I'll take one.

</end quote></div>

with a 93 octane tune

Meaning?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: ElFenix

with a 93 octane tune

Meaning?

if the car is tuned for 87 by default and makes 300 hp, a tune for 93 octane will allow advanced timing and more power. mustangs will improve by ~20 hp and ~1/3 of a second in the 1/4 mile, for example.

 

[Ktulu]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ElFenix
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Ktulu
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: ElFenix

with a 93 octane tune </end quote></div>

Meaning?</end quote></div>

if the car is tuned for 87 by default and makes 300 hp, a tune for 93 octane will allow advanced timing and more power. mustangs will improve by ~20 hp and ~1/3 of a second in the 1/4 mile, for example.</end quote></div>

2008 CTS info

2.8L v6 | 3.6L VVT v6 | 3.6L DI vvt v6

Horsepower: 210/156 @ 6500 rpm | 258/192 @ 6200 rpm | 300/223 @ 6700 rpm (est)

Torque: 194/263 @ 3200 rpm | 252/342 @ 3100 rpm | 270/366 @ 4000 rpm (est)

Recommended: unleaded regular | unleaded regular | unleaded regular

Not bad numbers

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Nice, and impressible fuel economy for a vehicle of that size! I do wish that more people drove cars with 25/35 or better fuel economy, but some people *need* the space on a constant basis.

Of course, in the mid-90s, I drove a beastly '77 El Camino that probably got about 6/9mpg But it was pretty much a drag car, I had no business driving it on city streets. Fun times

Yeah....

Well, GM at least has the Equinox. It doesn't have the most powerful engine (3.5l w/185hp), but it is pretty spacious. But it actually gets decent mileage. It's smaller than the Enclave and its cousins though.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

.........it' still a freakin' GM.

............just dunno how to compare to American........errrr..........junk?

Comments like this don't exactly encourage unbias debate.

Except the Equinox, every other domestic in your thread title has been on the market for less than one year - in the case of the Vue and Enclave, less than 2 months. I suggest that you go drive one of the new models. I think you'd be surprised how competitive they are.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>.........it' still a freakin' GM.</end quote></div>
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>............just dunno how to compare to American........errrr..........junk?</end quote></div>
Comments like this don't exactly encourage unbias debate.

Except the Equinox, every other domestic in your thread title has been on the market for less than one year - in the case of the Vue and Enclave, less than 2 months. I suggest that you go drive one of the new models. I think you'd be surprised how competitive they are.

I think you (and the OP) mean the Outlook. The Vue has been out for a few years and, if I'm not mistaken, uses a Honda drivetrain. It is, however, getting completely updated. It is another case where they're bringing over their Opel vehicles. The new Vue looks pretty nice.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Strk
I think you (and the OP) mean the Outlook. The Vue has been out for a few years and, if I'm not mistaken, uses a Honda drivetrain. It is, however, getting completely updated. It is another case where they're bringing over their Opel vehicles. The new Vue looks pretty nice.

No, I mean the '08 Vue, which has been on sale since early May. The Vue XR uses the same 3.6L that's in a bunch of new GM's.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/p...REE/70515014/1006/FREE

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/v...les/vue08/overview.jsp

Like I said, except the Equinox, every vehicle in his list has been out for < 8 months.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Strk
I think you (and the OP) mean the Outlook. The Vue has been out for a few years and, if I'm not mistaken, uses a Honda drivetrain. It is, however, getting completely updated. It is another case where they're bringing over their Opel vehicles. The new Vue looks pretty nice.</end quote></div>
No, I mean the '08 Vue, which has been on sale since early May. The Vue XR uses the same 3.6L that's in a bunch of new GM's.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/p...REE/70515014/1006/FREE

http://www.saturn.com/saturn/v...les/vue08/overview.jsp

Like I said, except the Equinox, every vehicle in his list has been out for < 8 months.

Oh, cool. I wasn't aware the '08 Vue was on sale.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Strk
Oh, cool. I wasn't aware the '08 Vue was on sale.

No problem. I'm sure most people don't know. I have yet to see an advertisement for it.

 

[RU482]

I love the Acadia. very nice.
I thought it got ~26MPG highway...maybe I'm mistaken, or were those pre-revision EPA numbers?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: redly1
I love the Acadia. very nice.
I thought it got ~26MPG highway...maybe I'm mistaken, or were those pre-revision EPA numbers?

it's so new there is almost no way it was ever reported with the old numbers

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: redly1
I love the Acadia. very nice.
I thought it got ~26MPG highway...maybe I'm mistaken, or were those pre-revision EPA numbers?

It is 26MPG in FWD

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Strk
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: KnightBreed
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>.........it' still a freakin' GM.</end quote></div>
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>............just dunno how to compare to American........errrr..........junk?</end quote></div>
Comments like this don't exactly encourage unbias debate.

Except the Equinox, every other domestic in your thread title has been on the market for less than one year - in the case of the Vue and Enclave, less than 2 months. I suggest that you go drive one of the new models. I think you'd be surprised how competitive they are.</end quote></div>

I think you (and the OP) mean the Outlook. The Vue has been out for a few years and, if I'm not mistaken, uses a Honda drivetrain. It is, however, getting completely updated. It is another case where they're bringing over their Opel vehicles. The new Vue looks pretty nice.

I thought Vue finally dropped the Honda engine in favor of its own 3.6L. Would be kind of stupid to keep buying engines from Honda now that GM has a better one in house.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I thought Vue finally dropped the Honda engine in favor of its own 3.6L. Would be kind of stupid to keep buying engines from Honda now that GM has a better one in house.

Yea, GM ditched the Honda engine for the '08+ Vue. The new Vue uses GM's 3.6L V6.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Fmr12B
The Hyundai VeraCruz basiclly dethroned the Lexus RX in a recent MotorTrend Article.

I'm guessing the Buick Enclave will demolish all $35K+ competitors.

http://www.motortrend.com/road..._veracruz_lexus_rx350/

Yup.

All of the reviews looked good. Only negative comments were that it "looked boring" which is really subjective (I like the looks.)

My wife and I traded in the grocery getter and got the VeraCruz. For under $30K you get V6, power driver's seat, CD/MP3 player, XM, front and rear AC, third row (it's $2200 for package with 3rd row in Sante Fe which makes it same price and isn't as roomy), heated side views, tinted rear view with compass, keyless entry, 18" alloys, Michelin tires, roof rack (cross bars extra), 6-speed auto with shiftronic, 10/100K drive train and 50/50K bumper to bumper.... First drive after buying it was over 200 miles and I loved every minute of it.

I would have to say that unless you just hate the looks of the SantaCruz, there really is no comparison. Even if you're looking up around that $35K neighborhood, take the SantaCruz and add ALL of the options and you still come out more reasonably priced and have more features (other than OnStar, of course.)

I've contemplated joining the Hyundai fan boy forums over this purchase.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: Fmr12B
The Hyundai VeraCruz basiclly dethroned the Lexus RX in a recent MotorTrend Article.

I'm guessing the Buick Enclave will demolish all $35K+ competitors.

http://www.motortrend.com/road..._veracruz_lexus_rx350/

Yup.

All of the reviews looked good. Only negative comments were that it "looked boring" which is really subjective (I like the looks.)

My wife and I traded in the grocery getter and got the VeraCruz. For under $30K you get V6, power driver's seat, CD/MP3 player, XM, front and rear AC, third row (it's $2200 for package with 3rd row in Sante Fe which makes it same price and isn't as roomy), heated side views, tinted rear view with compass, keyless entry, 18" alloys, Michelin tires, roof rack (cross bars extra), 6-speed auto with shiftronic, 10/100K drive train and 50/50K bumper to bumper.... First drive after buying it was over 200 miles and I loved every minute of it.

I would have to say that unless you just hate the looks of the SantaCruz, there really is no comparison. Even if you're looking up around that $35K neighborhood, take the SantaCruz and add ALL of the options and you still come out more reasonably priced and have more features (other than OnStar, of course.)

I've contemplated joining the Hyundai fan boy forums over this purchase.

I got the 08 VC GLS three months ago for 26k OTD - even at base it was everything I wanted and more. Very smooth and luxurious ride... Only concern is how the FWD will handle snow in Chicago...