Buick Beats BMW

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,776
31
81
I think this has been posted in other forms today, but just in case no one actually read the actual WSJ article, here it is:


Buick Beats BMW:
New Car Rankings

Influential Annual Survey
Finds U.S. Models Surpass
European Autos in Reliability
By KAREN LUNDEGAARD
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

For the first time in 25 years, the influential Consumer Reports magazine says the reliability of Detroit car and truck brands is now slightly better, on average, than European brands.

Prestigious European brands Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volkswagen, Audi, Volvo, Mini and Jaguar all ranked below average for reliability in 2003, based on results from the magazine's annual subscriber survey, which this year got 675,000 responses.

For cars less than a year old, the average problem rate for European cars was 20 per 100 vehicles, compared with 18 problems per 100 for traditional U.S. brands, such as Buick, Saturn or Dodge. U.S. makers still significantly trail Japanese and Korean auto makers, though. Asian auto makers held steady at 12 problems per 100 in the latest survey.

The findings are part of the magazine's annual Auto Issue, which makes buying recommendations based on the survey results as well as its own months-long hands-on tests. The issue circulates to 5.4 million subscribers and an additional 300,000 newsstand buyers.

Consumer Reports is one of the most influential sources of consumer information on new vehicles in the U.S.

The magazine also noted that more vehicles are getting high marks for safety. The magazine said 21 sedans had "excellent" safety ratings, compared with just nine three years ago, while 11 SUV models got excellent ratings compared with two just three years earlier.

Its criticism of European luxury-vehicle quality is the latest in a series of unflattering reports by independent evaluators that are tarnishing the once sterling image of German brands Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, Audi and BMW. The German cars are also facing headwinds from the dollar's weakness against the euro and intensifying competition from U.S. and Japanese brands.

German manufacturers "make very complicated vehicles with a lot of power equipment" that can cause problems, said David Champion, the magazine's senior director for auto testing. But similarly equipped models like the Lexus and Infiniti from Japan "don't have these problems."

Singled out for criticism was the BMW 7 series sedan, which was ranked as the worst European model. Owners of 2003 BMW 7 series sedans reported more problems per 100 cars to Consumer Reports than owners of a rival Japanese luxury sedan -- the 1996 Lexus LS 400 -- that's nearly eight years old, Mr. Champion said. Sales of the 7 Series are down 21% in the first two months of 2004 compared with a year earlier.

"People who buy these cars tend to be very busy people," Mr. Champion said. "Any downtime can be a big annoyance."

Mr. Champion predicted that over time, the quality problems would hurt sales of European cars. Through the end of February, Volkswagen brand sales in the U.S. are down more than 29%, and the company's Audi sales are off 18%. Mercedes-Benz U.S. sales are down 1.3%, and sales Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, which also owns Mini, are down 9.8%. (When deciding whether a brand is European, the magazine considers where the brand itself is based, not its parent company. So Volvo and Jaguar, both owned by Ford Motor Co., are European. DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes-Benz unit in European, while its Chrysler unit is considered American.)

For U.S. brands, the reliability jump is a big turnaround. Two years ago, U.S. and European auto makers were tied at 21 problems per 100.

Ford in particular, fared better in the new issue. The Ford brand gained four more recommendations than a year ago, though all of those recommendations, on the Explorer, Escape, Focus and Thunderbird, were included in a November "New Car Preview" issue from the magazine. The magazine also named the Ford Focus its "top pick" among small sedans, displacing perennial favorite, the Honda Civic. The sportier, faster SVT Focus was named the top pick in the Fun to Drive category, displacing last year's winner, the Subaru WRX.

The magazine now recommends more than one in three new models, and it also names a top pick in 10 different categories. General Motors Corp., the world's largest auto maker, had 12 recommendations across its Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Pontiac, Saturn and Saab lines. Its more expensive brands, Cadillac and Hummer, got no recommendations.

However, the news wasn't all good for GM, Ford and Chrysler. At a time when Detroit's Big Three are counting on many new and redesigned models to win consumers without huge discounts, the magazine still remains reluctant to give redesigned U.S.-brand models a stamp of approval in their first year. The reason: The big U.S. makers have a shakier track record for achieving high reliability.

Mr. Champion said Consumer Reports takes into account a number of factors when deciding how to rate a new or redesigned model, including the manufacturer's track record for first-year new-model quality. If the record points to average or below-average new-model quality, then Consumer Reports will usually withhold a recommended rating until it gets more data, he said.

"Most [new] Ford models tend to have about average reliability," Mr. Champion said. And while many of Chrysler's redesigned models have been very reliable out of the box, he said, "General Motors tends to be all over the place." Due to the uncertainty, "We might not want to risk a 'recommended' label and find there are a lot of problems."

Chevrolet lost its recommendation on the Malibu because of a redesign, and Chrysler lost its recommendation on the 300M and Concorde because its replacement vehicle, the Chrysler 300, is new.

Louise Goeser, vice president for quality at Ford, said she expects the No. 2 U.S. auto maker soon will win recommended ratings for new models in the first year, based on its improving quality. "It's a process of showing consistency."

Volkswagen spokesman Tony Fouladpour said the company is making quality improvements, and points out that by other measures, such as satisfaction and appeal, the auto maker scores well in other independent studies.

A GM spokesman, Dan Flores, said the auto maker is improving its new model quality, and the results are showing in surveys such as the J.D. Power & Assoc. Initial Quality Study. "One of the challenges we have as a company is that there is a perception lag from what we are actually doing in the market place in terms of first time vehicle quality, and where the customer perceives the quality of the vehicles to be," he said.

The Japanese have a better reputation with their redesigns. In fact, Consumer Reports bestowed several "top pick" designations on cars from Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. that were newly redesigned in the 2004 model year. Among them: Honda's Acura TL sedan, Toyota's Sienna minivan and Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid.

Perennial favorite, Toyota, did lose a recommendation because of safety concerns though. The magazine dropped its recommendation of the Tacoma small pickup truck because it performed poorly in a new rollover test by the federal government.

The magazine named its "top picks" in 10 categories, picking from among the 183 vehicles it had previously given "recommended" ratings. The top picks scored the best among their competitors in the magazine's testing, had average or better than average reliability, and performed "adequately" in crash tests conducted by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration or the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

And sometimes the magazine's plaudits come a little too late. This year's top pick in the Fun to Drive category, the SVT Focus, is slated to be discontinued later this year.

 

brxndxn

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2001
8,475
0
76
It's about time Buick gets some recognition for being reliable.. I got my Buick LeSabre at 90k miles and my brother got it around 107k miles.. It ran great until he crashed it around 127k miles. I didn't care about the car much so I got oil changed maybe once every 5-7k miles.. My bro treated it even worse. It just kept on running.
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
Ha ha ha ha...
This is one very funny article...
Ford Focus over Honda Civic :Q
Ford Focus SVT over Subaru WRX :Q (yeah, it is so good that Ford decided to chop it off this year
rolleye.gif
)
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
It's about time Buick gets some recognition for being reliable.. I got my Buick LeSabre at 90k miles and my brother got it around 107k miles.. It ran great until he crashed it around 127k miles. I didn't care about the car much so I got oil changed maybe once every 5-7k miles.. My bro treated it even worse. It just kept on running.
Welcome to 21th century...
I have 170 k miles on my Civic DX with (oh my god :Q) 4 cylinder engine..
So I would assume that 6 or 8 cylinder engine would be good for at least 200k
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: adlep
Ha ha ha ha...
This is one very funny article...
Ford Focus over Honda Civic :Q
Ford Focus SVT over Subaru WRX :Q (yeah, it is so good that Ford decided to chop it off this year :roll;)

yeah that article is definitely neutral... what a bunch o crap
I like how they didnt include how much did the sales drop for ford and gm for perspective.

 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,853
1,048
126
If I could have a top of the line Buick for free vs. a BMW for $1000 even if I was piss poor and in debt, I'd still hold out for the BMW.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: adlep
Ha ha ha ha...
This is one very funny article...
Ford Focus over Honda Civic :Q
Ford Focus SVT over Subaru WRX :Q (yeah, it is so good that Ford decided to chop it off this year :roll;)

yeah that article is definitely neutral... what a bunch o crap
I like how they didnt include how much did the sales drop for ford and gm for perspective.

DETROIT (AP) -- Ford is reporting a 9.8 percent drop in U.S. car and truck sales.

Sales of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury passenger cars were down 20-percent compared to January 2003. Truck sales fell 4.7 percent, despite record January sales of its F-150 pickup trucks.

Vice president Jim O'Connor says he's confident that Ford's new lineup of cars would result in improved sales by year's end. The automaker will introduce two new mid-size sedans, the Ford 500 and Mercury Montego -- plus a redesigned Focus, a new Mustang and the crossover Freestyle wagon.

Other automakers are expected to report January sales later today.

Posted 3 p.m., 2-3, bwray@wtol.com
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
0
0
Originally posted by: adlep
Ha ha ha ha...
This is one very funny article...
Ford Focus over Honda Civic :Q
Ford Focus SVT over Subaru WRX :Q (yeah, it is so good that Ford decided to chop it off this year :roll;))

This is why I don't trust Consumer Reports. They are so obviously pocketing some pay off for this article this year from the big 3.... er Big 2 and a 1/2
 

Actaeon

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 2000
8,657
20
76
Originally posted by: rh71
If I could have a top of the line Buick for free vs. a BMW for $1000 even if I was piss poor and in debt, I'd still hold out for the BMW.

So would I.

But there is more than a $1000 price difference between the BMW and Buick. To some, the BMW isn't worth more.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
Originally posted by: Actaeon
Originally posted by: rh71
If I could have a top of the line Buick for free vs. a BMW for $1000 even if I was piss poor and in debt, I'd still hold out for the BMW.

So would I.

But there is more than a $1000 price difference between the BMW and Buick. To some, the BMW isn't worth more.

all off those people have lives thru ww2... ;)
 

PKPunk

Senior member
Feb 26, 2001
384
0
0
all I have to say is well duh...A american car is more reliable than a euro car, I didn't need a survey to tell me that. Maybe I'm biased from my dad's old '89 jaguar v12 XJS, that thing broke down all the freaking time. However his 99 audi A6 has had it's problems but they haven't been too many, mostly just recall stuff. And the one thing I notice that this article negliect to mention is most euro car makers offer free maintance in their warrenties (Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar) for up to 4 years and the american companies only offer a defect warrenty for 3-4 years. And finally I don't think this is a fair comparison because the euro auot maker's cars don't really compare to the US auto marker's cars. I mean Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar all sell sports sedans where as say buick sell plain old man sedans. Like for two cars in simmilar price ranges a buick park avenue (35k) doesn't really compary to a Audi A6 quattro (39k). I guess what I'm trying to say is that easy to say one car is more reliable than the other car when you don't comapre cars in the same class. I could easily say the honda civic is more reliable than a Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG but that doesn't mean the honda is a better car. Most people know when they buy a luxury car that they are not buying the most reliable car in the they can buy for their money.