Budget upgrade for my friend...

[deadken]

I have a buddy that I work with. He is tight with cash, but enjoys gaming with me and a few others. He bought a Dell P4 a few years back. A 4X00 series w/ a 1.7 or 1.8 ghz. Since then he has put in a:

9700 Pro
2x512 Memory (Corsair Budget)
and an additional HD

Needless to say, he struggles with BF2. Even with the settings @ 800x600 and all set to low (and distance set to %80 or %85) his framrate drops to about 20FPS on occasion (according to ATI Tray Tools).

Well, I'd like for him to do a total new build. But he can't, his cash is too low. A newer card would probably breath some life into his rig, but I don't know how far we can go with his Dell Power Supply. Should I suggest that he try a 6600GT (I think one can be had for about $85 on the F/S forums) or will the PS not cut it? Would a 9800 Pro or XT make a big difference?

Just 20 or so more FPS would eliminate his 'stutter' and a bit more would let him start increasing settings. I have seen 9800's on the F/S forums for $55 bucks here and there. If I could get him a R360 core, I'd think that XT speeds should be obtainable.

I don't know much about P4 CPUs. I think that he might have a socket 423 CPU (I have to find out what CPU-Z says). I was thinking that he might be able to get up to a 2.0 or 2.2 without changing anything else (hopefully a call to Dell would let us know what's the max CPU his motherboard can run). I'd think that a 2.2ghz CPU would be about $50 used from the F/S forums too.

What do you guys think? Which would give the biggest increase? Please, keep the budget in mind. The guy doesn't have a bunch of money to spend.

BTW: I was thinking of just installing BF2 on my Daughters rig (she has a Mobile XP @ 2.3ghz w/a 9700 Pro + 1GB Memory) and then comparing 3dmarks and maybe actual BF2 framerates with him. That would let me know if his CPU is really holding him back. I should mention that BF2 suggests a P4 1.7ghz as minimum specs, so he really is at the borderline already. I have read where people play BF2 on 9500 and 9600 Pros, perhaps they have better CPUs?

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: deadken
I have a buddy that I work with. He is tight with cash, but enjoys gaming with me and a few others. He bought a Dell P4 a few years back. A 4X00 series w/ a 1.7 or 1.8 ghz. Since then he has put in a:

9700 Pro
2x512 Memory (Corsair Budget)
and an additional HD

Needless to say, he struggles with BF2. Even with the settings @ 800x600 and all set to low (and distance set to %80 or %85) his framrate drops to about 20FPS on occasion (according to ATI Tray Tools).

Well, I'd like for him to do a total new build. But he can't, his cash is too low. A newer card would probably breath some life into his rig, but I don't know how far we can go with his Dell Power Supply. Should I suggest that he try a 6600GT (I think one can be had for about $85 on the F/S forums) or will the PS not cut it? Would a 9800 Pro or XT make a big difference?

Just 20 or so more FPS would eliminate his 'stutter' and a bit more would let him start increasing settings. I have seen 9800's on the F/S forums for $55 bucks here and there. If I could get him a R360 core, I'd think that XT speeds should be obtainable.

I don't know much about P4 CPUs. I think that he might have a socket 423 CPU (I have to find out what CPU-Z says). I was thinking that he might be able to get up to a 2.0 or 2.2 without changing anything else (hopefully a call to Dell would let us know what's the max CPU his motherboard can run). I'd think that a 2.2ghz CPU would be about $50 used from the F/S forums too.

What do you guys think? Which would give the biggest increase? Please, keep the budget in mind. The guy doesn't have a bunch of money to spend.

BTW: I was thinking of just installing BF2 on my Daughters rig (she has a Mobile XP @ 2.3ghz w/a 9700 Pro + 1GB Memory) and then comparing 3dmarks and maybe actual BF2 framerates with him. That would let me know if his CPU is really holding him back. I should mention that BF2 suggests a P4 1.7ghz as minimum specs, so he really is at the borderline already. I have read where people play BF2 on 9500 and 9600 Pros, perhaps they have better CPUs?

More RAM and then a better video card will give him increases. Processor... not so much.

 

[sandorski]

CPU IMO. That P4 is holding his 9700Pro back as it is and a decent CPU upgrade will eek out significant gains. I got >10% boost going from an XP 2800 to X2 3800 with my 9800Pro and my XP2800 is significantly superior to your friends P4. Though a 9800Pro is better than a 9700Pro, my 9800Pro had no problems running BF2(even with the XP2800). I'd wager that a 9700Pro would work fine as well.

 

[Zap]

I don't think it needs more RAM because 1GB is fine for BF2. 2GB just helps it load faster, for the most part. I'm leaning towards it being CPU limited in this case.

BTW deadken, you should find out exactly what he has down to the chipset. Also, are you guys sure it is a P4 and not a Celeron? Even if it were a P4, the 1.7 would be a Willamette core with 256k cache while the 1.8 could be that or a Northwood (much better). If it is socket 423, then definately Willamette. If your buddy can save up near $100 for an upgrade, tell him to set that aside and keep saving. Once he hits $200, he can recycle his drives, RAM and video card by getting a new case, PSU, low end A64 and that ASRock board with AGP and PCI-E.

 

[Ika]

Yeah, I'd have to say it's CPU bottlenecked, but not really by all that much. A 9700 Pro and a 1.8ghz P4 are basically at the same level. I'm using a 1.8ghz Northwood with a 6800NU and I'm definitely CPU-bottlenecked in CS Source.

 

[deadken]

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions. I have to say that I don't think more ram is gonna make a huge improvement at this time. But I do agree with pretty much everything else. IIRC, it is a socket 423 P4, it has been a while since I told him to run CPU-Z, but I am pretty sure I was upset to hear the results (I agree a Northwood CPU would be better).

I have suggested that we 'restore' his PC to stock configuration and use his upgrade parts as the basis for a 'new' machine. With the Video card, Memory, and HD out of the question, we only need a Case (w/PS), Mobo, + CPU to get going (I will scrape up a CD-Rom, Floppy, + Cables for him). If he could get $150 together, we could get that S754 3400+ CPU and Free Biostar Mobo (gotta have the NF3 chipset) for $99 @ Newegg, and that would leave us $50 for a case.

I am thinking about giving him a socket 754 Asus K8V SE Deluxe motherboard and telling him to buy a $40 Sempron 2800 from Newegg. That way we could get him off the ground (just need to 'loan' him one of the Antec cases I have around here). When he has the money he could buy a new case or pay me for the Antec. That Asus board has the VIA chipset, for forget overclocking (I'd love to play with that 90nm Sempron). But, I didn't want to suggest it if the CPU wasn't holding him back.

Does anyone know how high the socket 423 CPU's went?

 

[Ika]

Not entirely sure, but it seems socket 423 CPUs only went up to 2.0ghz before being replaced by 478 (not sure though, only sleuthed for a few minutes on google).

I did, however, find [l=this]http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/08/30/performance_injection/[/]. Pretty interesting and might be pertinent to your upgrade plans.

 

[Zap]

Willamette only went to 2GHz and socket 423 only used that core.

 

[deadken]

I thank you guys for more great information. First, that link is great, and shows that it is possible to breath new life into a system that would otherwise be capped at 2ghz (Thanks for clearing up the max CPU speed on a s423, Zap).

I don't think that going from 1.7 to 2.0 is gonna make a big enough difference to warrant the cost. But, I will keep my eyes open on the F/S forums for a S423 2.0ghz CPU. Who knows? Maybe one will be put up for sale for cheap. I will explain to him that the choice is this: Use existing platform and be capped at 2ghz with an easy to find CPU, Use the existing platform and an adapter and special HS and go up to 2.8 or 3.0ghz (which most likely won't be worth it because the kit most likely will be sold with a new CPU rather then a used one that someone had lying around), or ditch it and just get a newer mobo and CPU that will allow for improvement now, and some more later.

I of course would only consider the last one (a new system basically), but he is different then me and it will be his choice.

-Thanks for all of the help, Ken

 

[Zap]

ECS also made those adaptors. I got one bundled with an ECS SiS chipset socket 423 board. They probably made those to clear old inventory. Don't know if those can be found anymore.

 

[akshayt]

CPU