Budget Graphics Card Comparison - Sandy Bridge Graphics performance is simply awful

[RussianSensation]

Techspot Budget Graphics Roundup

A $60 HD5670 easily whoops Intel's fastest IGP.

Even if Ivy Bridge increased performance 2-3x, it still won't even be close to a budget $60 graphics card by the time 2012 rolls around. Llano is pretty much going to mop the floor with Intel's HD3000.

The performance difference between a $100 GTX460 768mb and the HD3000 is simply staggering. It will likely take Intel 5 years or more before they match this $100 discrete graphics card.

 

[fuzzymath10]

Considering the GTX460 uses as much power as 2 quad-core SB CPUs (give or take) it's hardly a surprise.

No matter how much faster a discrete card is going to be, it still costs money, while IGPs are arguably free (to the extent that you don't have the option of paying less for a CPU without it). IGPs continue to be a primarily 2D solution, except for games that are at least a year or two old.

The difference in general gaming between Llano and Intel HD graphics is like comparing a 5400rpm drive to a 10000rpm drive; even if one is quite a bit faster, you're still an order of magnitude (or two) behind an SSD. Not a perfect comparison, but just illustrating that neither AMD nor Intel's IGP solutions will be a feasible substitute for enthusiast gaming. I would expect Llano to fare better in just about every case, but it will still be a relatively poor experience such that even if the Intel IGP was worse, I'd still want a discrete card in both cases.

 

[tviceman]

Considering the GTX460 uses as much power as 2 quad-core SB CPUs (give or take) it's hardly a surprise.

Quad-core Sandy bridge TDP : 95 watts

GTX460 768mb average TDP: 92 watts
GTX460 768mb peak TDP: 109 watts

Oh crap there went your whole argument.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_550_Ti_Sonic/21.html

 

[toyota]

Quad-core Sandy bridge TDP : 95 watts

GTX460 768mb average TDP: 92 watts
GTX460 768mb peak TDP: 109 watts

Oh crap there went your whole argument.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_550_Ti_Sonic/21.html

so you use the tdp of the sandy bridge but not the gtx460? lol. sandy bridge uses less power than the 95 watt 1156 cpus. real word usage the gtx460 1gb is most certainly pretty close to twice that of real world sandy bridge usage.

 

[edplayer]

A $60 HD5670 easily whoops Intel's fastest IGP.

wat? A dedicated graphics card is faster than a gpu built in the cpu?

Does the President know about this?

 

[fuzzymath10]

I may have been a bit optimistic with the power usage, but even if it was 1.5x or 1x, the same argument holds. By opting for an IGP you get pretty much every mainstream graphics feature you expect (DXVA for video decoding, flash acceleration, etc.), but high quality 3D gaming is iffy no matter which platform you choose, and you would be getting a discrete card to fulfill the majority of gaming needs either way. Very few folks game with an IGP, and the difference between 1280x1024 at medium vs 1024x768 at low is not a big deal when you figure that you'll be playing smoothly at higher resolution with high quality settings with any decent discrete card anyway.

 

[RussianSensation]

real word usage the gtx460 1gb is most certainly pretty close to twice that of real world sandy bridge usage.

But how many hours a day is the user gaming? Modern discrete GPUs power down very efficiently at idle. The GTX460 768mb only consumes 24 Watts of power in idle. If we are going to start getting picky about 25 watts of power, should we stop using our laundry machines/clothes dryers and start washing everything by hand, start taking showers strictly in cold water, drink cold tea/coffee? Come on now. This obsession with power consumption around the world is getting out of hand.

We are talking about $20-40 a year for electricity costs from the GTX460 (with $40 being an extreme gamer). Considering that SB IGP is pretty much useless for real world gaming applications, I don't think its power consumption advantage amounts to anything really since it can't play games. So in other words, it's only making discrete GPUs obsolete for people who don't game at all.

Basically in its current state, Intel's IGP hasn't lived up to the hype at all - it was "supposed" to replace discrete GPUs under $100, yet it's easily 3-4x slower than an HD5670.

 

[RussianSensation]

wat? A dedicated graphics card is faster than a gpu built in the cpu?

"The GPU used by Llano is derived from AMD's Radeon HD 6000 series of video cards that sport full DirectX 11 compatibility and other advanced features including the UVD3 media decoder.

In addition, the Radeon HD 6550 GPU that is used for the company's fastest APUs, the A8-3560P and the A8-3550P, packs no less than 400 stream processors, the same number of SPs used in the Radeon HD 5670." - Source

Don't say it can't be done. The biggest takeaway here is that even with IvyBridge, Intel will still be far out in the "unusable for gaming" category.

 

[fuzzymath10]

Basically in its current state, Intel's IGP hasn't lived up to the hype at all - it was "supposed" to replace discrete GPUs under $100, yet it's easily 3-4x slower than an HD5670.

This is definitely correct. I think that 5450s and GT210-class GPUs are pretty much useless though, except for very specific needs such as bitstreaming HD audio in the case of the 5450.

Also, you could probably find those cards for $100 at a best buy or future shop :sneaky:

 

[aphelion02]

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. The main target of the Sandy Bridge IGP is the mobile market, and there it definitely provides a lot of value to OEMs.

 

[Red Hawk]

AMD will crush Intel when it comes to APU graphics. Was anyone expecting different...?

 

[Barfo]

So IGPs are useless for serious gaming and you need a dedicated video card for that? Sorry but that's not news.

I'm actually pretty excited about getting a laptop with Sandybridge and HD3000. Most GPU intensive task I demand of a laptop is HD video decoding and Intel's offering does that perfectly, and uses less power than a discrete card.

 

[zerocool84]

Quad-core Sandy bridge TDP : 95 watts

GTX460 768mb average TDP: 92 watts
GTX460 768mb peak TDP: 109 watts

Oh crap there went your whole argument.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GeForce_GTX_550_Ti_Sonic/21.html

Add that to the processor you already have in your system then it's even.

 

[tviceman]

so you use the tdp of the sandy bridge but not the gtx460? lol. sandy bridge uses less power than the 95 watt 1156 cpus. real word usage the gtx460 1gb is most certainly pretty close to twice that of real world sandy bridge usage.

So are you saying SB uses 45-50 watts on average under load during demanding gameplay? And you know this for a fact because.... ? I'd like to see what system power consumption is during demanding gameplay with sandybridge using it's IGP vs. a gtx460 768 added to the same system. If you have any links with this exact comparison please post them.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Quad-core Sandy bridge TDP : 95 watts

GTX460 768mb average TDP: 92 watts
GTX460 768mb peak TDP: 109 watts

Oh crap there went your whole argument.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/P..._Sonic/21.html

The 460-768's rated TDP is 150W. The numbers you listed aren't TDP. They are measured points of power consumption. And if anything you should use their newest article, in which they updated their testing methodology: 120W peak.

Lost Circuits measures the 2500K at 46W. Anand measured the 2600k at 86W. The 2300, 2400 will fall below these numbers.

So, give or take, his statement doesn't seem wrong, and your argument is looking pretty biased with the use of a double standard.

But how many hours a day is the user gaming? Modern discrete GPUs power down very efficiently at idle. The GTX460 768mb only consumes 24 Watts of power in idle. If we are going to start getting picky about 25 watts of power, should we stop using our laundry machines/clothes dryers and start washing everything by hand, start taking showers strictly in cold water, drink cold tea/coffee? Come on now. This obsession with power consumption around the world is getting out of hand.

We are talking about $20-40 a year for electricity costs from the GTX460 (with $40 being an extreme gamer). Considering that SB IGP is pretty much useless for real world gaming applications, I don't think its power consumption advantage amounts to anything really since it can't play games. So in other words, it's only making discrete GPUs obsolete for people who don't game at all.

Basically in its current state, Intel's IGP hasn't lived up to the hype at all - it was "supposed" to replace discrete GPUs under $100, yet it's easily 3-4x slower than an HD5670.

Was electric bill savings the argument? No one brought it up. CPUs are constrained by TDP moreso than video cards. I take it that was the point of their statements, since it would require more robust cooling and power delivery to deliver GTX 460-like performance on today's current tech. But keep on attacking an angle no one was addressing.

 

[toyota]

So are you saying SB uses 45-50 watts on average under load during demanding gameplay? And you know this for a fact because.... ? I'd like to see what system power consumption is during demanding gameplay with sandybridge using it's IGP vs. a gtx460 768 added to the same system. If you have any links with this exact comparison please post them.

you know darn well you were not comparing apples to apples by any stretch. you used the sandy bridge tdp of 95 watts but not the gtx460 1gb tdp of 160 watts. and just look at reviews of sandy bridge to see it is using less than 1156 95 watt cpus just like i said. and also look at some other reviews to see that gtx460 does indeed use fairly close to 140-150 watts. so simple math says yes a gtx460 would be "about" the same power usage as 2 sandy bridge cpus.


EDIT: cusideabelincoln about covered it...

 

[nonameo]

AMD will crush Intel when it comes to APU graphics. Was anyone expecting different...?

I agree, I just hope the CPU and power consumption doesn't hold those laptops back. AMD needs to be able to be a part of a laptop that is not a DTR but still can play games without scaling back too much. I don't really think a 1.8ghz stars CPU is going to cut it though... I mean, I know they have turbo and all, but let's see if that actually happens. The turbo needs to be able to go through the effing roof IMO. a piddly 300-400mhz boost over 1.8 won't cut it.

 

[-Slacker-]

[...]so simple math says yes a gtx460 would "about" the same power usage as 2 sandy bridge cpus.

And about a dozen times as fast BA DUM TSHHHH

 

[Arkadrel]

@Nonameo

4x1.8ghz with maybe 100mhz-200mhz extra on each core with turbo boost, doesnt sound so bad. The 300% advantage or so the GPU on the Llano is bound to help it showcase itself as being faster for gameing. For non-gameing stuff, anything that can make use of the GPU acceleration, the Llano is bound to best the sandy bridge within the same TPD limits.

These are just ment to be like 50watt TPD laptop chips, that run in low-medium quality @1280x resolutions during gameing.

Most people will probably just want to be able to run youtube videos in HD, and have accelerated web browseing, and be able to play the odd game or two on their laptops.
The most demanding thing, they ll likely do on their laptops will be the gameing part.

Anything that isnt gameing, and cant be GPU accelerated, the sandy bridge is bound to be faster than the Llano.


Also with Hybrid crossfire (Llano + a 6570 in hybrid crossfire), is bound to make Intel have to pair their CPUs with more expensive GPU's to have compairable performance.

 

[blastingcap]

Techspot Budget Graphics Roundup

A $60 HD5670 easily whoops Intel's fastest IGP.

Even if Ivy Bridge increased performance 2-3x, it still won't even be close to a budget $60 graphics card by the time 2012 rolls around. Llano is pretty much going to mop the floor with Intel's HD3000.

The performance difference between a $100 GTX460 768mb and the HD3000 is simply staggering. It will likely take Intel 5 years or more before they match this $100 discrete graphics card.

I'm pretty sure INTC wasn't trying to get its EPGs to the level of modern gaming-grade GPUs. That was Larrabee's job... which is another story entirely.

An EPG is for the vast majority of PC users who don't do hardcore gaming. Sandy Bridge is fine for playing back movies, playing light games like Flash games or old games, and transcoding video.

 

[WMD]

Techspot Budget Graphics Roundup

A $60 HD5670 easily whoops Intel's fastest IGP.

Even if Ivy Bridge increased performance 2-3x, it still won't even be close to a budget $60 graphics card by the time 2012 rolls around. Llano is pretty much going to mop the floor with Intel's HD3000.

The performance difference between a $100 GTX460 768mb and the HD3000 is simply staggering. It will likely take Intel 5 years or more before they match this $100 discrete graphics card.

Nothing unexpected. The gtx460 768 has 336 cuda cores and draws 150w max. The HD3000 has 12 EUs and occupies a small fraction of the SB cpu die.

Now if intel makes a discrete gpu with their latest 22mm 3d transistor technology. I am sure it will whack both NV and AMD's butt.

 

[betasub]

The HD3000 has 12 EUs and occupies a small fraction of the SB cpu die.

Well, a small-ish fraction

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/die_sm.jpg

 

[Jacky60]

I hope AMD does crush intel and crush em fast this is one area where AMD has all the cards in their favour (excuse the pun and excepting cpu performance). Lets hope lano etc put the hurt on intel otherwise higher prices and less competition for all. Mind you I wish there were 20 discrete fx card manufacturers.

 

[WMD]

Well, a small-ish fraction

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/die_sm.jpg

While still underpowered for mid level gaming intel igp has been closing the gap to mainstream discrete gpus at an alarming rate. Each generation saw about double the performance. Compare this to amd radeon 4870 - 6970 2.5 generations to double the performance.

 

[Edrick]

Nothing unexpected. The gtx460 768 has 336 cuda cores and draws 150w max. The HD3000 has 12 EUs and occupies a small fraction of the SB cpu die.

The HD3000 IGP represents about ~15W of the SB's 95W TDP.
GTX460 can draw up to 150W in extreme cases.

The HD3000 IGP is basically free.
GTX460 cost ~ $159

So this whole comparison (thread) is just worthless. If we want to compare apples to oranges some more, lets campare a GTX580 with a HD5670 and call it fair. *facepalm*

The difference between Llano and SB is that SB is not sacrificing CPU power in order to give more GPU power. No one expected SB IGP to be the second coming, but it sure was an improvement over the Westmere IGP. And if Intel can keep boosting IGP performance every year by the same percentage, then the landscape will change in a few years.

Also lets not forget that the IGPs are in the "mainstream" market segment. SB-E will not have IGPs and for a good reason. For the average user who surfs the web and does some light gaming/facebook, SB IGP will be just fine, especially in laptops.