Budget gaming/everything system

[mrichardson2]

HELP!

What do you think - choice #1 or #2. My Athlon64 3200+/1gb ocz/6600GT system going to my 7 year old son (what a punk), A64 3200+ o/c to 2.5gh

System Choice #1

Intel E2160 CPU, DFI Infinity P965 2 GB OCZ Ram DDR2 800 (2x1gb) nVidia 8600GT

Reading has told me the E2140/2160 over clocks easily on retail stock air to around 3.0, maybe more. Don't care exactly, just want a nice, solid little overclock. Will make sure I get the right RAM (OCZ offers several choices in my price range - only RAM I use)

System Choice #2

Intel 6550, Gigabyte GA_P35, 2gb OCZ Ram (2x1gb) DDR2 1066, nvidia 8600GT

Faster processor, not sure on the overclock potential. Read nothing but pros on the board! This system gives me more FSB (1066 vs 800), faster RAM (DDR2 1066 vs DDR2 800) Will I notice the extra speed (not just gaming, will do office apps, video encoding, etc also) or should I save some cash and just o/c the 2160?

Coming from current system, anything will feel faster!

Basically, just wondering 1) will i notice much difference from the E2160 800FSB DDR2 80 and P965 chipset vs the added costs of system #2, with the 6550 and a faster FSB, faster ram (1066 vs 800)

2) I'm stuck on a $100 ish VGA card, 8600GT seems like only option right now, coming from a 6600GT (should be nice upgrade, right? I prefer nVidia, always have, got to be a little loyal right? Switching from AMD to Intel, don't think I could handle nVidia to ATI too!) Also, will I have any issues going from CRT monitor to 22" widescreen running native resolution with the 8600GT or should it handle it okay? Never been one to care about every setting maxed out)

System 1 costs me about $140 less than system 2 - which helps justify the new monitor to my wife ($250-$140 = 90, easy to get her approval on)

Do my board choices match up with my CPUs okay? What do you think? THANKS!
Mike

 

[sutahz]

22" WS w/ a 8600GT? I'm willing to bet the 8800GT 256MB is not a bad deal.
The problem w/ being a fanboy is it makes you not think clearly. I'm an AMD fanboy, thank goodness Core2 is the obvious choice (unless your EdzA) for a new build.
Yeah OCZ makes good memory, but memory has the least impact on your system. Save some dough (this IS a budget system) and get something else w/ good reviews.
You shouldnt need DDR2-1066, but you may need it to get the GA_P35 to boot (i dunno), even then buy a 512MB stick of 1066 for like $5 then 4GB of cheap DDR2-800 (set your ram to 1:1).
8600GT? Sure its cheap but for 2x as much you get over 2x the performance boost with the 8800GT 256MB. With the money you save by not buying OCZ can justify this upgrade. Or dare I quote "At $135, the Radeon X1950 PRO is still a good buy. The card's usual competition is the Geforce 7900 GS and Geforce 8600 GTS. Both of these cards seem to be found in the $150 to $160 range lately - more expensive than the X1950 PRO, and much too close to the vastly superior Radeon 3850"

Basically, just wondering 1) will i notice much difference from the E2160 800FSB DDR2 80 and P965 chipset vs the added costs of system #2, with the 6550 and a faster FSB, faster ram (1066 vs 800)

No.

Not the best "put together' reply, but just my two cents worth.

 

[mrichardson2]

Originally posted by: sutahz
22" WS w/ a 8600GT?

Are you saying this is bad? Do you think I won't be able to run native resolution with the card and some decent game settings?

I'm willing to bet the 8800GT 256MB is not a bad deal.

$220-$300 vs less than $100 - sure I'd love an 8800GT but I do more than game, and I don't play the latest and greatest games (just started CoD2!!!)

The problem w/ being a fanboy is it makes you not think clearly. I'm an AMD fanboy, thank goodness Core2 is the obvious choice (unless your EdzA) for a new build.

Yeah, I love AMD too. This is my first Intel build - EVER!

Yeah OCZ makes good memory, but memory has the least impact on your system. Save some dough (this IS a budget system) and get something else w/ good reviews.
You shouldnt need DDR2-1066, but you may need it to get the GA_P35 to boot (i dunno), even then buy a 512MB stick of 1066 for like $5 then 4GB of cheap DDR2-800 (set your ram to 1:1).

Unless a lot has changed in the overclocking world, I would disagree about memory having the least impact on your system. Good memory gives you good overclocks, keeps your system stable and eliminates problems. I've been burned by average ram before. Not that 4gb wouldn't be bad, but with 4gb (2x2gb) won't I kiss any decent overclock with the E2160 goodbye?

Maybe you can run 4gb (2x2gb) and still overclock now - it's been a couple years for me. Thanks for making me think of it though, check out this memory:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227199

OCZ, 4gb (2x2gb) this might work! Thanks!

8600GT? Sure its cheap but for 2x as much you get over 2x the performance boost with the 8800GT 256MB.

With the money you save by not buying OCZ can justify this upgrade.

The OCZ Platinum ram (2x1gb) is only $51. I won't save much going to a lesser brand - maybe $15 (NewEgg) Hardly pays for an extra $100+ on the VGA

Or dare I quote "At $135, the Radeon X1950 PRO is still a good buy. The card's usual competition is the Geforce 7900 GS and Geforce 8600 GTS. Both of these cards seem to be found in the $150 to $160 range lately - more expensive than the X1950 PRO, and much too close to the vastly superior Radeon 3850"

The 8600GT I'm looking at is under $100. Cheapest Radeon 3850 I would consider (brand name) is almost twice that. Again, don't think I can swing it.

Thanks for the thoughts - anyone else?

 

[bfdd]

HD3850 is a great buy for like 160-170 dude great card.

 

[mrichardson2]

Originally posted by: bfdd
HD3850 is a great buy for like 160-170 dude great card.

Okay, I'll take a look. But should I care about the brand? VisionTek, GeCube, Diamond, HIS? I've never really considered cards other than MSI, Asus, Gigabyte, etc.

Even with the off brands I mentioned, still looking at $90 more than the 8600GT

GeCube is $165 after rebate and free shipping

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814241066

Thanks!

 

[bfdd]

8600GT isn't a good card not even equal to last generation. Last generation cards in the same price range perform better.

3850 vs 8600GTS(which is faster than the 8600GT)

3850 vs Last Gens Best

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: mrichardson2

Originally posted by: sutahz
22" WS w/ a 8600GT?

Are you saying this is bad? Do you think I won't be able to run native resolution with the card and some decent game settings?

Not unless you like your slide shows really slow. You can see here how fast the 8600GT is at only 1280x1024. This review shows how it performs at 1920x1200.

 

[toadeater]

Originally posted by: mrichardson2

Originally posted by: sutahz
22" WS w/ a 8600GT?

Are you saying this is bad? Do you think I won't be able to run native resolution with the card and some decent game settings?

The 8600 series is one of the worst ripoffs of 2007. It should not be called a "midrange" card. Nvidia should be sued for claiming this hacked-up 7900 GS with a new core is a DX10 card. It's like those "This computer is capable of running Vista" stickers. Capable means it will boot in 2 minutes, and then run like Windows XP on a Celeron and 256MB of RAM.

If you want a card for gaming, get at least a 256MB 8800 GT, or an HD 3870. I'm not so sure the 3850 is worth it, unless you're on a budget.

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: toadeater

Originally posted by: mrichardson2

Originally posted by: sutahz
22" WS w/ a 8600GT?

Are you saying this is bad? Do you think I won't be able to run native resolution with the card and some decent game settings?

The 8600 series is one of the worst ripoffs of 2007. It should not be called a "midrange" card. Nvidia should be sued for claiming this hacked-up 7900 GS with a new core is a DX10 card. It's like those "This computer is capable of running Vista" stickers. Capable means it will boot in 2 minutes, and then run like Windows XP on a Celeron and 256MB of RAM.

If you want a card for gaming, get at least a 256MB 8800 GT, or an HD 3870. I'm not so sure the 3850 is worth it, unless you're on a budget.

HD3850 runs just like a HD3870 untill higher resolutions and out performs a HD2900 untill higher resolutions.

 

[zach0624]

The memory you're looking at looks good although you won't get a boost from 4gb in most applications and is pretty much a waste of money especially since 32bit oses can't use all of it.
1)Save money and get a 2x1gb kit of DDR2 800, especially if you overclock, and stay away from ddr2 1066 this is not required or even usefull unless you are going for OCs with a 500+fsb(over 3.5ghz on the e6550)
2) the e2160 will oc to about the same speed as the e6550, save some money and get the e2160
3) get a p35 mobo, the gigabyte is good and the ds3l is less than $100 at newegg
4) now with all the money you saved get atleast a HD3850 (which you can easily OC to a HD3870, minus 256mb of ram, from what I've heard) or a hot deal on the 8800gt (256 or 512) or a HD3870.

 

[mrichardson2]

Thanks for all the info, especially for getting steered away from 8600GT. After reading the reviews you pointed me to, I think I'll move up to the 8800GT. Guess the 8600s sort of suck huh?

I think I'll take your advice ZACH0624, go E2160 with the Gigabyte P35 DS3L board (kinda wanted that anyway) and stick with the 2GB of OCZ ram.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

PS - Special note to ba5500, who sent me a special Christmas eve private message (despite making no comments actually in the thread.) His PM to me read:

You f***ing suck moron

Dear ba5500,

Asking questions and discussing the answers is the entire point of forums like these. If you feel people like me who don't know as much as "you think you do" shouldn't be here asking questions then why do you bother being here either and reading our questions?

On the eve of the Christmas holiday, I found both the opinion expressed in the private message and the fact you bothered to send it at all as two windows into your obviously sad, confused and depressed soul. I wish you a better life and personality than you have now and may Christmas day bring at least a little joy to your obviously cold, black heart. Merry Christmas ba5500. My family will pray for you tonight.

Mike

EDIT: Gosh, I tried to send ba5500 the above message but he doesn't accept private messages. Isn't that a little like "You can dish it out but you can't take it?" Gee, now I feel even worse for you.

 

[sutahz]

No one else re-addressed it but yes, RAM (speed/timings) has the least effect on your system now days. Even in your current system (s939) RAM doesn't make that big of a difference. RAM was a big deal in P4 & Athlon XP days.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820211165 $36+0 you dont need heatspreaders, you'll be OCing your cpu, not your ram. If you want heatspreaders, they cost $5.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820211066 has heat spreaders $43+0
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820313019 $20MIR availible.
$44+5-20=$29

Cheapest OCZ is $46+5

I'm going to nail it down to 2 video card suggestions for you.
eVGA 8800GT 256MB (lowest pricegrabber price for my zipcode (CA): $240
Sapphire 3850 256MB $205 (apparently pricegrabber didnt find me the lowest prices.. oh well just trying to help..)
Its your budget, your build, if the 8600GT is all you can/want to afford then thats that.

Your 22" monitor running at 1680x1050 is right at the edge of where RAM becomes very important. For example w/ the 8800GTS (G90) most review sites said the 320MB version was fine up to 1680x1050 and you would benefit none from the 640MB version. The thing w/ LCD's is they look best at their native resolution. So if you play a game at 1440x900 it will look ok, but scaling isnt perfect. Since your just an occasional gamer, and def. dont need your games to look perfect get the 8600GT or that GeCube and run your games at 1440x900, it'll be good enough for you.

As far as which brand of ati card to buy (if you go that route), I don't know. The differences in manufactures seems to come down to customer service more and more from what little I know. That said Sapphire is the eVGA of the ATi world. If I were not to get Sapphire, i suppose i'd go MSI or Diamond.
You can also browse ebay and see if you can snag a good deal.

Which 8600GT are you looking at for <100$? The 256MB 128bit GDDR2 one? If you go that route, at least get GDDR3

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Why are you getting him a 3850 at $205? They're only supposed to be 160-180...

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: BlueAcolyte
Why are you getting him a 3850 at $205? They're only supposed to be 160-180...

Yeah really wtf is with that? Here's one for $165.99

 

[mrichardson2]

I was looking at this 8800GT:

Leadtek PX8800GT 256MB GeForce 8800GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

I have a Leadtek now and have been very happy with it, plus it's $215 on NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814122044

I guess I'm a little worried about the 22" LCD running native at 1680x1050. I really want a 22" widescreen but I want to run games like Call of Duty, Oblivion, etc at 1680x1050 with some high settings. Are you guys saying even the 8800GT won't do that?

RAM

Thanks for the info on timings, I was able to clock my s939 system to 2.5ghz and keep RAM timings very tight @ 1T. Thought that was still important, glad it's not so much nowadays.

Here's the RAM I was looking at:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227124

It's OCZ Gold 2gb (2x1gb) for $31 including shipping (after rebate). It's only DDR2 800 though. Which is my last question:

The Gigabyte board P35-DS3L says FSB 1333/1066, RAM standard DDR2 1066

The Intel E2160 says FSB 800

The OCZ Ram I'm getting is DDR2 800

Any of this a problem? I always thought you wanted everything the same. If it's okay and will be stable I don't care, but the Gigabyte board (which has good reviews) doesn't mention 800FSB CPUs or DDR2 800 RAM. HELP WITH THIS!?!?!?! I see a lot of people talking about the P35 + E2160 + DDR2 800 doing fine so maybe this is a non-issue.

Thanks for quick replies, my credit card is next to my keyboard and soon it will jump into my hand!!

Thanks
Mike

 

[bryanW1995]

165 is more realistic on a 3850. I would save the money on the ram and get some of this OCZ ddr2 800 4-4-4-12 for $41 AR. 4-4-4-12 ddr2 8000 is usually good for 500+, so you shouldn't have any problems overclocking with that. I have a 2x1 gb set of ballistix 1066 and an e6750, and if I could do it over again I would have saved the money and gotten the 4-4-4-12 8000 instead. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227139

also, go cheaper on the cpu. the 2160 is very strong and with overclocking should be 90% + of the performance of the e6550. With the money that you save on the e2160 and 44412 ddr2 800 you'll easily be able to afford the extra $65 for the 3850.

 

[mrichardson2]

TO: bryanW1995

Thanks for pointing out the OCZ Platinum $41 is totally great! (rebate + free ship)

Yeah, think I'm sold on the E2160 - the o/c potential is huge, and I won't be too greedy anyway. Would like to hit 3.0 tho without changing anything from stock (NB, CPU HSF, etc) but it's not critical to go that far (or beyond??)

I'm okay with $220 ish for the 8800GT, I've read it's better than the 3850 and I want to get it right, okay with pushing the budget a little - that's why I've got a day job, right?

Thanks!

 

[rogue1979]

Conroe-1333 D667 mobo at mwave.com for $46

Corsair 2 x 1GB PC5300 (DDR667) at mwave for $37.75 after $10 rebate

E2160 at ewiz.com for $67

Masscool 90mm at mwave.com for $9.81

If you are willing to "paint" a simple line with conductive ink on the cpu to give it a native 266Mhz fsb, you will get 333 x 9 for 3.0Ghz at the very least.

You have only spent $161 so far, you will have more options for a video card.

I would suggest the Radeon HD 3850 for $165-170.

If you want to save more money you could always get a used 7900GS or GT for less than
$100 in the for sale forums. I just picked up a 7900GS for $71 shipped on ebay, and a X1900XT 512MB for $105 shipped in the for sale forums.

Just a thought, but if you are gonna go budget on the video card, you might want to get a 19" wide screen monitor so that your native resolution will be lower and give you more gaming framerates.

 

[mrichardson2]

Okay, here's where I'm at right now. Pricing from Newegg, after rebates, including S/H:

$32 Rosewill case
$95 OCZ GameXStream 700W
$80 Intel E2160
$103 Gigabyte P35-DS3L
$41 OCZ Platinum ram 2gb (2x1gb) DDR2 800
$221 Leadtek 8800GT

$572 total, before the widescreen:

$270 Samsung 226BW 22" LCD Widescreen

$842 TOTAL

Already got nice HDD, DVD burners, etc but may add a couple 250gb for some video work.

I'm a little over budget but not much. Spending a little extra on the 22" LCD (vs Chimei 22" for $210) and the 8800GT (but I prefer nVidia and it seems better than the 3850 for $165)

Any other comments? I like the system up there so far for my budget. Anything major I am missing?

Option 2 is to get a divorce and spend $5000 for a quad core SLI or Crossfire system before she takes me to the cleaners, but then I need a 60" plasma too!!

Mike

 

[bfdd]

the 8800 GT 256mb is a bit faster than the 3850 and a bit more expensive, but you'll be happy with either especially since you want an nvidia. That's a pretty nice mobo my buddy got one he went the 3850 route because he was on a budget pretty nice hit an e6600 I gave 3ghz no voltage increase, once he gets a better HSF going to see how far it'll go without a voltage increase.

 

[gOJDO]

You can buy a cheaper PSU and invest the difference in a better CPU and 8800GT with 512MB(it is 10%-20% fasterr than the 256MB version).
I am running P35-DS4, E6420 @3.5GHz (7x500) 1.35v, 4x1GB DDR2 @1000 CL4 5-5-16 2v, 2x250GB + 400GB HDD, 2xDVD-RW, Creative Audigy2, TV/FM Tuner, 8800GT @720/1725/999, ZM-MFC2 + 3x120MM fans on a Spire Rocketeer 600W PSU.
The maximum power (non-effective, measured at the power cable input to the PSU) consumption of my OC-ed system during playing games like Crysis, COD4, STALKER and others, never goes over 310W

BTW, option 2 sounds very good to me, except the 60" plasma. 1) LCDs are better than plasmas; 2) you will have to place the 60" monitor 5-8 meters to watch at it properly and without headaches.

 

[bfdd]

310w? I call bs...

 

[sutahz]

Originally posted by: gOJDO
You can buy a cheaper PSU

He already owns the PSU (I thought that too, but then I looked at his SIG)

 

[j0j081]

if you are playing games at 1280x1024 the 8600gt heavily ocd isn't that bad depending on what you want to play. It does horrible in Company of Heros of course but does pretty decently in other titles such as UT3.

 

[mrichardson2]

Originally posted by: sutahz

Originally posted by: gOJDO
You can buy a cheaper PSU

He already owns the PSU (I thought that too, but then I looked at his SIG)

True, but I need a second one and I've been thrilled with the PSU. Given the bad luck I've had with PSUs over the years, I'm sticking with the OCZ. The current OCZ PSU I have goes to my son (spoiled kid) - He is basically getting the entire system in my sig. He is 7 years old but quite an avid gamer!

So, I decided to spring for the GIGABYTE 8800GT 512MB GV-NX88T512HP with the 700 mhz clock and the Zalman cooler ($268 +s/h) Little more than I wanted to spend but sounds like a much better card than the Leadtek 8800gt 256mb card I was looking at for $50 less. Card is hard to find (Newegg been out for days or more) Hope Lagoom.com is okay - never bought from them before!

Drat - Newegg out of stock on Gigabyte P35-DS3L board now too! Off to look!

Thanks everyone.
Mike