Budget Gaming Build - No AMD Love?

[Devlyn]

I tend to buy my PC and then forget about the scene for years until mine is past its prime.. but it seems like for a while Intel is completely dominant. Is there any hope for an AMD system these days (I always budget build and that meant AMD the last two systems). I've got a Phenom 9850 Black / Biostar 790GX currently, which I don't believe can be upgraded to the Phenom II which would have been a cheap stop gap until next year's releases..

I was looking at 8350 and Haswell systems.. but it seems like the 4670K with Asus Extreme 4 bundled at Microcenter for $300 is pretty well priced. Are there better recommendations to be had without going +$75 on that budget? Or more recommended motherboard for the Haswell?

 

[chubbyfatazn]

which I don't believe can be upgraded to the Phenom II which would have been a cheap stop gap until next year's releases..

Sure you can. Might need a BIOS update depending on what you drop in, but it's certainly possible.

edit: I'm using a PhII in a 790GX board right now. It's one of the older AM2+ boards with DDR2, but it works.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Why buy second tier? Get a Haswell based system and enjoy. Single threaded performance is still king.

 

[SlowSpyder]

What model motherboard do you have? My AM2+ system has no problem with a hexcore Phenom II, even. Are you sure your motherboard can't take a PhII? A PhI 9850 is a 125 watt CPU, so power shouldn't be an issue.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I would think that a 790GX board is new enough that it might be able to take a Phenom II with a BIOS flash. If you could tell us exactly which model that mobo is, then we could likely tell you for sure.

Is it this one?
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=377
Because that one CAN take a Phenom II.

 

[Devlyn]

Yeah, that is it. When those chips came out I swear it didn't support it so i didn't think to look back. It looks like it goes up to the 940 which isn't too bad. Still limited to DDR2 though.

Would this be good with a 7870 or 7950 to run for another year.. or are chips basically at their peak and a Haswell would carry me just fine and purchasing anything to tide it over be pretty wasteful?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, that is it. When those chips came out I swear it didn't support it so i didn't think to look back. It looks like it goes up to the 940 which isn't too bad. Still limited to DDR2 though.

Would this be good with a 7870 or 7950 to run for another year..

Depends on what games you play, but for 95% of them, a decent Phenom II X4 or X6 should get you by for another 1-2 years at least, assuming that you also upgrade your GPU to a 7870 or 7950.

 

[Arkaign]

Depends on what games you play, but for 95% of them, a decent Phenom II X4 or X6 should get you by for another 1-2 years at least, assuming that you also upgrade your GPU to a 7870 or 7950.

Yeap. GREAT drop-in upgrade. Yes, a PhII is only the rough equal of an i3 in many things, BUT there is definitely something to be said about just being able to drop it into an existing setup without having to get new board, possibly new ram, probably reloading windows, etc.

I personally think 7950 is overkill for that CPU, but that's just me. I had a PhII w/7850 as my HTPC (recently upgraded for free to FX-8120 LOL, probably the worst idea ever for an HTPC CPU, but hard to turn down free). It pretty much runs any title at 1080p with mostly high settings, it helps turning down AA and shadows a notch.

OP, you OC? Look at the 7850 threads here, find one that has a great rep, and boost it up a little bit. This one seems solid :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121704 $139

Also pair with 4GB of DDR2 if you don't already have 4GB. Don't get 8GB, the prices for DDR2 are simply too high to justify that.

 

[Arkaign]

Oops, this is even better :

http://www.techbargains.com/catsearch.cfm/0_2_0

Right now a 2GB MSI Twin Frozr 7850 is $139 Comes with Crysis 3!

 

[antisocialmunky]

I built a SCII A10 rig for someone. Works great on high if you're gaming at less than 1920 like a lot of more casual gamers.

 

[jihe]

I tend to buy my PC and then forget about the scene for years until mine is past its prime.. but it seems like for a while Intel is completely dominant. Is there any hope for an AMD system these days (I always budget build and that meant AMD the last two systems). I've got a Phenom 9850 Black / Biostar 790GX currently, which I don't believe can be upgraded to the Phenom II which would have been a cheap stop gap until next year's releases..

I was looking at 8350 and Haswell systems.. but it seems like the 4670K with Asus Extreme 4 bundled at Microcenter for $300 is pretty well priced. Are there better recommendations to be had without going +$75 on that budget? Or more recommended motherboard for the Haswell?

AMD is gone. Buy AMD only if you need a heater.


No trolling, please. -Admin DrPizza

 

[NTMBK]

Why buy second tier? Get a Haswell based system and enjoy. Single threaded performance is still king.

Did you miss the thread title? Budget.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Did you miss the thread title? Budget.

Yes, budget, not completely broke. You can have a 4670K + mobo for a tad over $300.

 

[Blue_Max]

Heck - for a budget gamer you can't beat a Pentium G850-class processor for ~$40 and a nice video card... so long as a dual-core doesn't hold back a multithreaded app/game, its single-thread performance is KILLER for that price!

Of course, an AMD APU with the best available video is pretty tasty too if you don't want to shell out for a video card...

 

[guskline]

From the OPs post, I decipher his "budget" as that for the CPU and MB with it being MAX $375.00, preferably $300. Also since his primary focus is gaming the AMD FX8000 series and the Intel 4700 series aren't as important.

However at Microcenter a FX 8350 bundled with this http://www.microcenter.com/product/395441/M5A99FX_PRO_R20_Socket_AM3_990FX_ATX_AMD_Motherboard
motherboard is $265.00
An Intel Haswell 4670k with this
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.aspx?sku=614826
mb is $310.00

 

[Devlyn]

Yes, budget, not completely broke. You can have a 4670K + mobo for a tad over $300.

Maybe my idea of what I spent in the past has changed, but yes, I was comparing the 4670K + mobo deal at Microcenter versus the option of dropping the Phenom II in. I don't have an issue with spending $300 on the pair, so with that in mind is the Phenom II really still a decent chip because it seems like it came out ages ago. It's hard to find comparisons that include something that old to the 3- series i5, let alone the 4670.. so I'm really hoping to find out if it's worth while.

I mostly play League of Legends, Call of Duty, and MMO's GW2 and the like..

I'm thinking of handing down the current PC to my wife, so perhaps I could pick up the Phenom II to upgrade this a little bit and purchase a new Intel build. Is the Extreme 4 or the Asus board guskline linked paired with the i5 Haswell for ~$300 going to be a solid purchase to start a new system of then? It sounds like it would be.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Did you miss the thread title? Budget.

He did mention he was considering Haswell and FX 8350, so he must not be too budget constrained. It would be more useful if the OP specified what parts he wished to upgrade and gave a specific budget range. Really, I think the first decision he needs to make is whether he wants to upgrade the entire system or just the cpu and/or mb. Honestly, I dont see the point of doing a "stopgap" upgrade now and a full upgrade in a year. I dont see anything coming up cpu wise in the next year that is worth waiting for, except maybe Kaveri if you want to try to build a low end system to game on the igp.

 

[cbrunny]

Why buy second tier? Get a Haswell based system and enjoy. Single threaded performance is still king.

For a limited time only.

 

[sm625]

Be wary of pairing a phenom II with DDR2. We all already know that the chip is slower than intel, but when you pair it with such ancient memory bandwidth it is going to bite you that much harder.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Be wary of pairing a phenom II with DDR2. We all already know that the chip is slower than intel, but when you pair it with such ancient memory bandwidth it is going to bite you that much harder.

It actually doesn't make too much difference from what I've seen.

OP, I would get a PhII and overclock it. My very early PhII 940 ran at 3.6GHz with a 2.6GHz NB/L3 and it did very well. I only upgraded to a Thuban because I was bored having the same CPU for so long.

 

[Devlyn]

He did mention he was considering Haswell and FX 8350, so he must not be too budget constrained. It would be more useful if the OP specified what parts he wished to upgrade and gave a specific budget range. Really, I think the first decision he needs to make is whether he wants to upgrade the entire system or just the cpu and/or mb. Honestly, I dont see the point of doing a "stopgap" upgrade now and a full upgrade in a year. I dont see anything coming up cpu wise in the next year that is worth waiting for, except maybe Kaveri if you want to try to build a low end system to game on the igp.

That's sort of what I was looking for, is there any purpose to delaying. When reading I've found so many people saying the chips have not improved much with the introduction of Haswell, so the question was.. is it time to buy now or should I do something to put it off until the next round comes out which hopefully see an actual performance jump?

If I built a new system, I'd currently be looking at a Haswell i5 because the price jump to i7 doesn't seem worth while for my needs. The 7950 at ~$300 is probably a stretch for what I want to spend.. but the next jump down to 7850 is such a significant price drop ~$150 and there doesn't seem to be anything worth while in the middle. Then I'd need 8 or 16gb DDR3, so another $65-100. So I'm looking at $550-600 for a planned budget on those pieces. I wouldn't freak if it creeped to $800, but I'm not sure if the add'l $200 would really buy me tangible increases (I don't want to spend it for ~2-5 fps increases in other words).

~I have a HAF 932, Roswell Cap 650, and an SSD already.

 

[Yuriman]

@OP, have you played with Anandtech's Bench?

Going by that alone, I surmise that a 4670K is approximately 60-100% faster than a 965BE stock vs stock and depending on what you're doing, though the Phenom probably has a larger percent overclocking headroom.

My vote is this: If you can afford it, build yourself a well-rounded Haswell i5 system. If you consider handing-down your current parts to another family member, a PII would breathe some extra life into it for them.

 

[Essence_of_War]

I was looking at 8350 and Haswell systems.. but it seems like the 4670K with Asus Extreme 4 bundled at Microcenter for $300 is pretty well priced. Are there better recommendations to be had without going +$75 on that budget? Or more recommended motherboard for the Haswell?

You mean the AsRock Extreme4? If you're not planning on Xfire/SLI, I would just go with the MSI G41 board bundle for $255. It's a fantastic deal. Frankly, either of them is a good pick, but when you're on a budget $50 is the difference between a 7950 and a 7970, or a non-stock HSF, or a 120->250 GB SSD upgrade.

If I built a new system, I'd currently be looking at a Haswell i5 because the price jump to i7 doesn't seem worth while for my needs. The 7950 at ~$300 is probably a stretch for what I want to spend.. but the next jump down to 7850 is such a significant price drop ~$150 and there doesn't seem to be anything worth while in the middle

IMHO 7950 for $300 is over priced. You can find a tri-fan Gigabyte for $270 shipped, a dual-fan Sapphire Vapor-X for $261 shipped, AR or a dual-fan Sapphire for $241 shipped, AR. AT $300ish you should be looking at a 7970.

Also, the next jump down from the 7950 from Radeon isn't the 7850, it's the 7870 LE/XT at ~200/220 or GHz Editions 7870s for ~170/180.

 

[KingFatty]

Do you think of the computer as something cool to have, even enjoying just looking at it? Then spend as much as you can on it, because spending more will actually enhance your enjoyment of it. You like it *because* you spent a lot on it. Like getting a premium experience, the more you spend the more you like it.

Or, do you think of the computer as a tool to get jobs done, like play games XYZ and browse websites ABC etc.? Then you'd feel bad if you over-spent, and would rather spend just enough to get the job done.

Or, do you think of the computer as a hobby to challenge yourself to tinker with it and extract the biggest bang for your buck, by overclocking and sniping deals with rebates etc.? That's another hobby aspect to computing, and you might feel bored if you get high performance without overclocking etc. I mean, there is currently an active thread where a guy is tired of his 2600K intel CPU and wants to try another to have an overclocking challenge. Pretty awesome and I applaud that, but you can see that there is a risk of getting such a good computer that it's just not fun because you've simply paid for performance. Like someone who goes for the average car to be able to modify it in his garage, vs. the guy who buys a ferrari.

So ask yourself, what do you want to do with this computer?

 

[Arkaign]

It actually doesn't make too much difference from what I've seen.

OP, I would get a PhII and overclock it. My very early PhII 940 ran at 3.6GHz with a 2.6GHz NB/L3 and it did very well. I only upgraded to a Thuban because I was bored having the same CPU for so long.

I'll second this, I kicked down an old HTPC rig (PhII X4 955BE stock + 7770GE + 8GB DDR2-800) to a friend, and they now play tons of current games at 1600x900 with great details at totally smooth & playable framerates. I never noticed much going back from DDR2 to DDR3 with PhII X4s and X6s.

At the very least, it gets the gimpy Phenom I out the door and provides a great system that can be repurposed later easily should OP desire even more performance. Yes, SB/IB/Haswell *ARE* much better than PhII, but that doesn't make PhII unusable or even 'slow' in most real-world uses. The guy with the 955 and 7770 is one of the best BF3 players I've ever seen, he almost always gets #1 or #2 in 64p matches, and you just know a lot of the guys he's taking down are running rigs with GPUs worth twice as much by themselves as his entire system.

PhI OTOH, at 2.5Ghz with some crippled aspects, that 9850 is just a bit over the hill for reasonable gaming. A PhII with improved cache and 3.2-3.6Ghz clock will be a gigantic upgrade. It takes things from borderline to totally smooth/playable.