Browser box - best 65W TDP Intel Coffee Lake / 8th Gen to put in there?

[VirtualLarry]

I guess the two biggest contenders are the i3-8100 (3.6Ghz quad), or an i5-8400 (2.8Ghz hex core).

This is for an upcoming DeskMini H310W build, when I can get the money.

I already have an i3-8100 and heatsink in an ITX box. Will need to maybe pick up some DDR4-2667 SO-DIMMs, currently have only DDR4-2400 SO-DIMMs. (I thought ahead, and bought 2400 with my Skylake CPUs, so that when Kaby Lake hit, I could drop them in and enjoy the faster RAM speeds, but I don't think that 2667 was commonly available back then, like it is now. Maybe I should get 2800, just to be safe, for 9th-Gen CPUs?)

Of course, I guess, that point is moot, if I go with the i3-8100 quad-core, because that's still limited to DDR4-2400 (being essentially a Kaby Lake quad, in Coffee Lake clothing).

My only concern, is the slower base clock speeds of the i5-8400. I've never owned one, but below 3.5Ghz for base clock is worrisome to me.

Will it ordinarily turbo higher, most of the time, such that it's not stuck running at 2.8Ghz all-core all of the time?

 

[NTMBK]

You already have the i3-8100? Well then, use that. No point spending more money. A quad-core Skylake is awesome for web browing, and will last for years and years. And the memory speed is great too. Even a dual core Sandy Bridge machine would still suffice for web browsing, if it weren't for the outdated video decoder.

Keep your wallet in your pocket, Larry!

 

[coercitiv]

Will it ordinarily turbo higher, most of the time, such that it's not stuck running at 2.8Ghz all-core all of the time?

It will turbo to 3800Mhz+ and stay there for any meaningful browsing load.

Here's a test Hardware Unboxed did on 8400 mounted on the DeskMini: with a modified TDP to 95W the CPU stayed at 3800Mhz for an hour long Blender test. Browsers and games use far less power than rendering programs, hence the 65W will be more than enough to power the CPU to max turbo.

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't think Intel chips ever run at base clock under load.

They'd have to be throttling, I think.

 

[whm1974]

You already have the i3-8100? Well then, use that. No point spending more money. A quad-core Skylake is awesome for web browing, and will last for years and years. And the memory speed is great too. Even a dual core Sandy Bridge machine would still suffice for web browsing, if it weren't for the outdated video decoder.

Keep your wallet in your pocket, Larry!

I agree as I doubt will you see any difference between the 8100 and 8400.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I don't see much of a difference between the i5-7300HQ and the i5-3320m while web browsing, and the benchmarks between those should be pretty far apart. The former is a 45w 7th gen quad core and the latter is a 35w third gen dual core with HT on an older process.

Stop looking to justify spending more money!

 

[coercitiv]

Keep your wallet in your pocket, Larry!

Stop looking to justify spending more money!

You must have forgotten who you're talking to, Larry changes computer parts like we change our socks.

Let me rephrase the OP to better suit the topic:

I'm going to buy the i5 8400, should I use it for a DeskMini H310W build or some other project?

 

[SlowBox]

You already have the i3-8100? Well then, use that. No point spending more money. A quad-core Skylake is awesome for web browing, and will last for years and years. And the memory speed is great too. Even a dual core Sandy Bridge machine would still suffice for web browsing, if it weren't for the outdated video decoder.

Keep your wallet in your pocket, Larry!

It's only good for web browsing ....cuz you can buy redactedfrom amazon soo fast. My old man has a 2600k Sandy redacted oh Bridge @ 4.2Ghz 16GB RAM and SSD. He does everything on the comp he uses Photoshop, and Vegas Pro different image apps, lots of apps and it handles them all smoothly. IMO cuz of the SSD, and the 16GB of RAM. If you don't do any of the mentioned then grab a 8400 and what not. good luck




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esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[VirtualLarry]

So, now considering between the i5-8400, 8500, and 8600. All are 65W TDP,

i5-8400: 2.8Ghz base, 4.0Ghz SC turbo
i5-8500: 3.0Ghz base, 4.1Ghz SC turbo
i5-8600: 3.1Ghz base, 4.3Ghz SC turbo

What I don't know, and I think Intel doesn't specify anymore, is all-core turbo speeds for each of those CPUs.

Secondarily, I don't know if it would be worthwhile spending the extra $25-50 on the higher speed grades of 65W hex-core Coffee Lake CPUs, if the BIOS on the DeskMini has the long power limit fixed such that the TDP is fixed to 65W, due to cooling and power issues with such a small chassis and an external power brick. If so, then does any of those chips need to exceed 65W TDP, to get those speeds? I mean, if the TDP limit at 65W limits the speeds to i5-8400 range, then why buy the i5-8600 if I'll never see the higher speeds?

Conversely, maybe the higher chips are binned better, and can achieve higher speeds at the SAME TDP limit, in which case, it would be advantageous to buy the higher CPU SKU, for the better binning and higher speeds.

Which is true? Should I bother spending more than just for the i5-8400, which is around $180? (Maybe I can get it cheaper, maybe via a site-wide ebay sale, if Newegg is selling that CPU on ebay too.)

 

[NTMBK]

What happened to the i3-8100? Use the chip you already have!

 

[BSim500]

What I don't know, and I think Intel doesn't specify anymore, is all-core turbo speeds for each of those CPUs.

i5-8400 = 3.8GHz (5-6C) / 3.9GHz (2-4C) / 4.0GHz (1C)
i5-8500 = 3.9GHz (5-6C) / 4.0GHz (2-4C) / 4.1GHz (1C)
i5-8600 = 4.1GHz (5-6C) / 4.2GHz (2-4C) / 4.3GHz (1C)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfa9RDNVMAAiqwt.jpg

Secondarily, I don't know if it would be worthwhile spending the extra $25-50 on the higher speed grades of 65W hex-core Coffee Lake CPUs, if the BIOS on the DeskMini has the long power limit fixed such that the TDP is fixed to 65W, due to cooling and power issues with such a small chassis and an external power brick. If so, then does any of those chips need to exceed 65W TDP, to get those speeds? I mean, if the TDP limit at 65W limits the speeds to i5-8400 range, then why buy the i5-8600 if I'll never see the higher speeds?

Quite honestly for a simple "browser box" I wouldn't even bother with anything above the i3-8100 that you've already got. Total CPU cost = $0.

Edit: Honestly I think you need to step back and figure out exactly what you're trying to achieve. As others have observed, it sounds like you only actually need a low-end CPU, yet at the same time simply want an excuse for a new hex-core toy to play with. "Need vs want" - they're not always the same thing...

 

[Thunder 57]

So you posted a thread asking about an i3 or an i5. Everybody suggested the i3. Now you ruled that out and are asking about which i5? If you already knew what you were going to do, why create a post?

Also, you will never notice the difference with the slightly faster memory except in CPU-z. It's one thing to have a hobby and another to throw money away.

 

[coercitiv]

So you posted a thread asking about an i3 or an i5. Everybody suggested the i3. Now you ruled that out and are asking about which i5? If you already knew what you were going to do, why create a post?

Wow, slow down there, I'm not Everybody! I even offered to translate the OP, but "nobody" listened! Stop reading the post, start reading the poster!

Which is true? Should I bother spending more than just for the i5-8400, which is around $180? (Maybe I can get it cheaper, maybe via a site-wide ebay sale, if Newegg is selling that CPU on ebay too.)

By now yields are as good as they can be, the 8400 has a good chance to be a decent chip. I would aim for 8400, maybe 8500 if price happens to be too close.

And remember your defense stance: most browsers can use more than 4 threads!™

 

[VirtualLarry]

Shrug. I want the six-core, for bragging rights. Maybe I should wait, though w,ill there be an 8-core 9000-series CPU that is 65W TDP or under?

 

[Thunder 57]

Wow, slow down there, I'm not Everybody! I even offered to translate the OP, but "nobody" listened! Stop reading the post, start reading the poster!

I read the part about socks but somehow missed your translation. That was pretty good and as it turns out, accurate .

Shrug. I want the six-core, for bragging rights. Maybe I should wait, though w,ill there be an 8-core 9000-series CPU that is 65W TDP or under?

So then why create a post to try to justify it or seek validation? If it's what you want, get it!

There's a decent chance of an 8 core at 65W. I mean, AMD does it. The question is how much will clocks suffer to do it?

 

[NTMBK]

Shrug. I want the six-core, for bragging rights. Maybe I should wait, though w,ill there be an 8-core 9000-series CPU that is 65W TDP or under?

If there is, it will have a fairly low clock speed.

6 cores is pedestrian these days. AMD have been there since the Phenom II days. Just take the quad core and get on with life.

 

[SPBHM]

g5400 is good for exactly that

i5 8400 runs locked at 3.8ghz under load for gaming and goes higher for lower core count loads I wouldn't worry about clock..

 

[BSim500]

Shrug. I want the six-core, for bragging rights. Maybe I should wait, though w,ill there be an 8-core 9000-series CPU that is 65W TDP or under?

This is for an upcoming DeskMini H310W build, when I can get the money.

I think you seriously need to double-check what you're building:-

If the DeskMini H310 you're building has a "hard TDP cap" due to coming with a 120w power brick PSU, then a badly throttled 6-8 core CPU makes zero sense. The Asrock Deskmini Z370 used by HWUnboxed throttled a lot with 65w profile but not 95w BUT 95w was only possible due to being a different model with a 220w PSU (19v @ 11.57A). The DeskMini H310 you're looking at seems to have the same 120w PSU (19v @ 6.32A) see pic #4 here as the earlier DeskMini H110, which is 100% guaranteed to mean "65w hard cap with no option of bumping it up to 95w profile"... Just about doable with 4C/4T (i3-8100) allowing for 20% or so headroom for transient spikes, and easily with a 2C/4T G5400, but shove in a "65w" 6-8C CPU, and enjoy 2.5Ghz 8C / 2.8GHz 6C clock speeds if the BIOS decides to heavily throttle / force disable Turbo completely on hex / octo's as the only way of not frying the power brick under load...

If you want the DeskMini H310, then you literally already own everything (i3-8100 + DDR4 2400) that perfectly fits both the application in question and intended hardware that everyone has been recommending all along. I'm honestly not sure though who's going to be "impressed" by someone who's bragging they spent hundreds more on new CPU & RAM only for it to run 20% slower under most loads due to TDP-constraint than if they used the cheaper chip they already owned that ends up clocked +800MHz faster in actual "hard cap 65w" practise...

tl:dr - I can understand you wanting a hex core for gaming, but trying to force one into a TDP constrained rig with a 120w PSU is completely the wrong rig to want it in. If you really want a hex core, then you need the Z370 DeskMini with a +220w PSU and a 95w profile. Or look around for a small ITX case that can take, eg, a Corsair SF450.

 

[VirtualLarry]

which is 100% guaranteed to mean "65w hard cap with no option of bumping it up to 95w profile"... Just about doable with 4C/4T (i3-8100) allowing for 20% or so headroom for transient spikes, and easily with a 2C/4T G5400, but shove in a "65w" 6-8C CPU, and enjoy 2.5Ghz 8C / 2.8GHz 6C clock speeds if the BIOS decides to heavily throttle / force disable Turbo completely on hex / octo's as the only way of not frying the power brick under load...

Thank you, that's precisely the information that I was trying to get at.

I was wondering if the i5-8400 and friends, could actually "clock" (not overclock, just turbo), a bit, under the 65W TDP (I assumed, probably correctly, that the DeskMini H110/H310 BIOS is hard-capped at a 65W TDP limit), or whether they would need effectively more than 65W to reach their MCT.

If that's true, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, given your information, then yes, most likely, the i3-8100 is as high as a CPU I want to drop in there, and you're right, I've got the M.2 NVMe SSD, DDR4-2400 SO-DIMM RAM, and the i3-8100 (currently in an ITX rig) already.

That's also a little disappointing to hear, I thought that Intel silicon was a bit more advanced these days. Guess not. (Ok, somewhat of an inflammatory statement, but AMD managed, with GF 14nm, to shove 8C/16T into a 65W TDP envelope with the R7 1700, though clocked only at 3.0Ghz without any Turbo. So I expected better of Intel.) It should be noted that HWMonitor reports around 65-66W package power for my R5 1600 under full load, but add AVX load, and it bumps up to 70-75W too.

 

[epsilon84]

Thank you, that's precisely the information that I was trying to get at.

I was wondering if the i5-8400 and friends, could actually "clock" (not overclock, just turbo), a bit, under the 65W TDP (I assumed, probably correctly, that the DeskMini H110/H310 BIOS is hard-capped at a 65W TDP limit), or whether they would need effectively more than 65W to reach their MCT.

If that's true, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, given your information, then yes, most likely, the i3-8100 is as high as a CPU I want to drop in there, and you're right, I've got the M.2 NVMe SSD, DDR4-2400 SO-DIMM RAM, and the i3-8100 (currently in an ITX rig) already.

That's also a little disappointing to hear, I thought that Intel silicon was a bit more advanced these days. Guess not. (Ok, somewhat of an inflammatory statement, but AMD managed, with GF 14nm, to shove 8C/16T into a 65W TDP envelope with the R7 1700, though clocked only at 3.0Ghz without any Turbo. So I expected better of Intel.) It should be noted that HWMonitor reports around 65-66W package power for my R5 1600 under full load, but add AVX load, and it bumps up to 70-75W too.

It's a browser box - the chances of a 8400 throttling under those circumstances, even on a 65W limit, are zero to none. AVX workloads are also completely irrelevant, I think we are focusing on the wrong things here...

That being said, I fail to see how an i5 8400 would be any better than an i3 8100 for the intended usage. A browser box isn't supposed to be CPU intensive, in fact a Pentium would likely do just fine. But you seem really keen on a 6 core CPU for 'bragging rights' so who am I to argue against that?

 

[VirtualLarry]

That being said, I fail to see how an i5 8400 would be any better than an i3 8100 for the intended usage. A browser box isn't supposed to be CPU intensive, in fact a Pentium would likely do just fine. But you seem really keen on a 6 core CPU for 'bragging rights' so who am I to argue against that?

...in a perfect world, maybe. My quad-core A6-6310 APU, just gave a warning that a page was slowing down my web browser. (Yes, I have ad- and tracker-blocking.)

Edit: And by "Best" in the thread title, I was referring to: "Fastest CPU for the money, that reasonably will be able to Turbo and not throttle (in 65W TDP envelope)."

 

[epsilon84]

...in a perfect world, maybe. My quad-core A6-6310 APU, just gave a warning that a page was slowing down my web browser. (Yes, I have ad- and tracker-blocking.)

An A6 is a far cry from a modern CPU though, even a relatively low end i3 8100.

In terms of browsing responsiveness, there really is no difference between my laptop, which runs an i5 7300HQ (4C/4T) and my 8700K @ 5.0GHz. Browser load times (as in opening chrome and having it display images) is probably a touch slower on my laptop but that is possibly down to a slower SSD rather than a faster CPU IMO. Not saying a 5GHz CPU isn't useful in loading times, but I'm really splitting hairs here to show any perceptible difference.

I think a decently fast SSD, a properly set up ad blocker and perhaps 16GB of RAM so you can have 100+ tabs open at once is probably the most important things to have in a browser box. An i5 or 6 core CPU? Not so much. It's definitely overkill, but if you don't mind spending a bit extra you do get yourself a more 'future proof' CPU then just go for it, no need to justify it here on the forums.

 

[SPBHM]

hardwareunboxed had the 8400 with an h310 board and 65W limit running rendering tests and it never went bellow 3.8GHz or over the 65W limit, I don't see how web browsing would be a problem

 

[XavierMace]

Shrug. I want the six-core, for bragging rights. Maybe I should wait, though w,ill there be an 8-core 9000-series CPU that is 65W TDP or under?

Bragging rights among whom? There's always going to be a bigger fish and the further down the food chain you are, the quicker it's going to find you. You already have a processor and RAM which everybody in this thread has said is abundantly fast for a browser box. In your situation you HAVE to be able to find something more meaningful and useful to spend the money on.

 

[Ranulf]

So you posted a thread asking about an i3 or an i5. Everybody suggested the i3. Now you ruled that out and are asking about which i5? If you already knew what you were going to do, why create a post?

Also, you will never notice the difference with the slightly faster memory except in CPU-z. It's one thing to have a hobby and another to throw money away.

Welcome to a VirtualLarry thread. Just sit back, relax, and bring extra thermal paste for the inevitable cpu and/or system change. Have a nice day.