Broadwell-E Review

[YBS1]

Had the 8-core Haswell-E, stepped down to a Skylake 6700K for a while, and now on 6800K and a new X99 board (ASUS X99A-II) and 4x16GB DDR4-2400 DIMMs.

The issue with the Haswell-E actually turned out to be the fact that I was populating all 8 DIMM slots with DDR4-2400 RAM and trying to run it at that frequency. The memory controller is apparently only rated for DDR4-1866 on all 8 DIMMs. Issues went away when I ran the RAM at DDR4-2133, but I felt like going to Skylake at the time anyway.

I actually found a really good read about this particular issue by someone from either Asus or a memory representative just recently. I had always assumed two matching dual channel kits would be just as good as a quad channel kit, but this stated that is not the case at all. So I can see why you had some issues trying to run 8 sticks since there are no such "sets" available for sale. Let me see if I can dig up a link.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview

 

[Arachnotronic]

I actually found a really good read about this particular issue by someone from either Asus or a memory representative just recently. I had always assumed two matching dual channel kits would be just as good as a quad channel kit, but this stated that is not the case at all. So I can see why you had some issues trying to run 8 sticks since there are no such "sets" available for sale. Let me see if I can dig up a link.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...e-memory-kits!-The-meat-and-potatoes-overview

Very interesting, thanks. I bought a quad channel kit specifically for this setup, didn't want to take any chances. It's really working great.

 

[Termie]

I actually think that article is referring specifically to combining multiple kits on the same bank. Each bank is distinct, as you can in fact have different amounts of memory, a different number of sticks, and so on, in each bank.

So, for instance, on the Z170 platform, the problem would only arise if you were running a single memory stick of one type and a single memory stick of a second type to achieve dual-channel operation. On X99, that would mean buying two sticks of one brand, two of another, and combining them to achieve quad-channel operation.

I don't believe that the article is suggesting that you would have instability if one bank were Corsair and another G.Skill. Each bank operates independently anyway, as long as you don't try to force the same XMP profile on your entire system. And the article definitely isn't saying you need "matched" sets. If you bought two separate packages of the exact same RAM, it will have the same specifications. So to the above poster, the lack of 8 stick kits isn't a problem, if you buy two 4-stick kits of the exact same model. There should be no variation in the specifications of a particular model run.

 

[24601]

There's only 4 channels. When you are running 8 dimms on 4 channels you are putting extra load on the IMC, just like if you were running 4 dimms on 2 channels.

 

[aigomorla]

Who cares how others spend their money. It's the king of the hill in terms of Intel's consumer product stack of chips. It has the most cores and is the most expensive.

I dont see how its king of the hill in anything but price.

It is not the most expensive, and it definitely does not have the most cores. You can get 22core processors which work on the X99 chipset branded Xeon. True its a Enterprise CPU, but it works in a Consumer branded board and not your not limited to a enterprise board.

But without getting into a full debate, enthusiast gear was meshed with enterprise hence you cant call it consumer anymore, as the Z170 is the true "consumer" class gear, and enthusiast is classed with enterprise.

So what is it king of the hill in?
Gaming? Nope
Computing? Nope
Breaking your wallet? YES!
It almost feels like intel got together with activision and decided to pull this dung out like CoD - Infinite Warfare...

Well now, don't be jelly of my encoding rigs then (or pretty much any of the setups in the DC forum)

Rig 1 : eVGA SR2 w/2x X5675 @ 4.2GHz (12c / 24t)
Rig 2 : Intel S2600CP2J w/2x E5-2670 (16c / 32t)

:\
Did you miss this guy who posted his 22 core monster playing doom?
Not really jelly at you, but definitely jelly at this guy below.

44 logical threads = 22core + HT... now that is a monster...

Actually DOOM 2016 runs pretty well with more cores.

 

[2blzd]

I dont see how its king of the hill in anything but price.

It is not the most expensive, and it definitely does not have the most cores. You can get 22core processors which work on the X99 chipset branded Xeon. True its a Enterprise CPU, but it works in a Consumer branded board and not your not limited to a enterprise board.

But without getting into a full debate, enthusiast gear was meshed with enterprise hence you cant call it consumer anymore, as the Z170 is the true "consumer" class gear, and enthusiast is classed with enterprise.

So what is it king of the hill in?
Gaming? Nope
Computing? Nope
Breaking your wallet? YES!
It almost feels like intel got together with activision and decided to pull this dung out like CoD - Infinite Warfare...



:\
Did you miss this guy who posted his 22 core monster playing doom?
Not really jelly at you, but definitely jelly at this guy below.

44 logical threads = 22core + HT... now that is a monster...

Xeons aren't consumer desktop chips. Which is what we're talking about.

6950X is Intel's most expensive and most powerful consumer desktop chip.

thanks

 

[YBS1]

I actually think that article is referring specifically to combining multiple kits on the same bank. Each bank is distinct, as you can in fact have different amounts of memory, a different number of sticks, and so on, in each bank.

So, for instance, on the Z170 platform, the problem would only arise if you were running a single memory stick of one type and a single memory stick of a second type to achieve dual-channel operation. On X99, that would mean buying two sticks of one brand, two of another, and combining them to achieve quad-channel operation.

I don't believe that the article is suggesting that you would have instability if one bank were Corsair and another G.Skill. Each bank operates independently anyway, as long as you don't try to force the same XMP profile on your entire system. And the article definitely isn't saying you need "matched" sets. If you bought two separate packages of the exact same RAM, it will have the same specifications. So to the above poster, the lack of 8 stick kits isn't a problem, if you buy two 4-stick kits of the exact same model. There should be no variation in the specifications of a particular model run.

Well, you can choose to believe it or not, that's up to you but the article stated this quite clearly...

"Memory kits are programmed with the timings and frequency that the memory vendor found to be stable for a given density - a single memory kit in other words. If a 16GB kit can handle a particular memory timing at 10 clocks, that’s what the memory vendor will program into the memory kit’s XMP or SPD profile. If we add another 16GB of the same kit to the system, it’s probable that this 10 clock delay needs to be increased to 12 or more clocks in order to ensure stability. It could be worse still – the modules may require more voltage or not be capable of running at a given frequency at all. Either way, the system will only have the timings of a single memory kit to reference, leaving any adjustments to the end-user to perform. There’s the primary cause for end-user frustration right there – most are not equipped to deal with the situation and end up frustrated, blaming all and sundry for their misadventure.

So please do yourself a favor – do not combine memory kits. Purchase a single memory kit at the rated density and timings that you need. Perform research, ask questions then buy. Don’t do it backwards"

While I agree you are likely to increase your odds of success by running two identical kits, the fact that the fastest available quad channel kit is 3400 vs. 4000 or better for dual channel is alone very telling that as you increase density and number of modules timing becomes more and more difficult/critical. You know as well as I do if they thought they could make a buck by selling reliable DDR4 4000+ quad channel kits to the X99 crowd they would do it.

 

[Termie]

Again, as I stated, each bank operates independently, with separate settings that can be custom-tailored to the specific kits. What you quoted does not in any way suggest otherwise. If I can set one bank to run at DDR4-2133, and another to operate at DDR4-3200, which I can, then they obviously don't need a single matched kit to span across banks. As for a single bank, of course, you can't have unmatched sticks, since they are forced to run at the same settings no matter what.

And by the way, the reason there are no DDR4-4000 quad-channel kits is because the X99 platform can't support DDR4-4000, not because it's impossible to create a reliable kit. It's a limitation of the platform, not the memory.

There seems to be some evidence that Broadwell-E can push RAM up to DDR4-3400. Haswell-E was definitely limited to DDR4-3200.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Well, you can choose to believe it or not, that's up to you but the article stated this quite clearly...

"Memory kits are programmed with the timings and frequency that the memory vendor found to be stable for a given density - a single memory kit in other words. If a 16GB kit can handle a particular memory timing at 10 clocks, that’s what the memory vendor will program into the memory kit’s XMP or SPD profile. If we add another 16GB of the same kit to the system, it’s probable that this 10 clock delay needs to be increased to 12 or more clocks in order to ensure stability. It could be worse still – the modules may require more voltage or not be capable of running at a given frequency at all. Either way, the system will only have the timings of a single memory kit to reference, leaving any adjustments to the end-user to perform. There’s the primary cause for end-user frustration right there – most are not equipped to deal with the situation and end up frustrated, blaming all and sundry for their misadventure.

So please do yourself a favor – do not combine memory kits. Purchase a single memory kit at the rated density and timings that you need. Perform research, ask questions then buy. Don’t do it backwards"

While I agree you are likely to increase your odds of success by running two identical kits, the fact that the fastest available quad channel kit is 3400 vs. 4000 or better for dual channel is alone very telling that as you increase density and number of modules timing becomes more and more difficult/critical. You know as well as I do if they thought they could make a buck by selling reliable DDR4 4000+ quad channel kits to the X99 crowd they would do it.

Yep, buy a single kit. Don't add multiple kits to a system for maximum stability/reliability.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If I can set one bank to run at DDR4-2133, and another to operate at DDR4-3200, which I can

Please define "bank" in this usage. I was unaware that any consumer-oriented Intel platform had two seperate memfreq's.

 

[Termie]

Please define "bank" in this usage. I was unaware that any consumer-oriented Intel platform had two seperate memfreq's.

I mis-spoke slightly. You cannot set different frequencies, but you can set different timings per channel on some boards, such as the Gigabyte Z170 Gaming 6, as shown:

The first two slots can have different timings than the second two slots. Now, this is a bit illogical in terms of upgrades, as you typically would first fill the second and fourth slots, and then perhaps buy a new kit for the first and third slots. But timings cannot differ within a channel, so you'd have to group your new kit into two adjacent slots, with your older kit in the other two adjacent slots.

Back to the original article, the issue with the advice being given is that not everything comes down to the memory; the motherboard and UEFI stability also matter. So while Corsair or G.Skill or Crucial may loosen timings to achieve stability in a 4x4GB kit on Z170 or an 8x8GB kit on X99, it may or may not be enough, or perhaps it's more than necessary, depending on the motherboard. In other words, unless the particular kit is on a QVL, even getting a matched set isn't good enough.

As I see it, unless you're running right at the ragged edge of your motherboard's RAM speed tolerance, you are probably safe mixing separate kits of the same memory. And in fact, I have mixed separate kits of different memory on many occasions, and it's never caused me an issue, except on my X99 motherboard (a 4x8GB kit and a 4x4GB kit would not play nice together). I'm running two different 2x8GB DDR4-3000 kits on my Z170 right now, and don't have any issues.

 

[2blzd]

I was planning on buying two identical kits of 2x8GB because its cheaper than buying the 4x8GB kit.

I've always done this and never had any issues. Now you're telling me I can't do that? Uhhh what?

 

[wingman04]

You can still use 4X8GB kit.

 

[strategyfreak]

I was planning on buying two identical kits of 2x8GB because its cheaper than buying the 4x8GB kit.

I've always done this and never had any issues. Now you're telling me I can't do that? Uhhh what?

The impression I got after reading numerous such discussions is that buying two memory kits, even two identical ones, and combining them is an unsupported by memory and motherboard manufacturers and might not give you the rated performance. That doesn't necessarily mean that combining kits won't work at all - I've mixed kits plenty of times with very few issues, just that it's unsupported and if it doesn't work it'll be up to you to figure out what's wrong.

 

[2blzd]

You can still use 4X8GB kit.

That's what I'm trying to avoid. As I said in my previous post Id rather get two identical 2x8GB kits because it's much, much cheaper.

 

[rchunter]

Do you guys think this memory would be a good match with Asus x99 deluxe-II? Or should I look at buying something different?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231930

 

[Termie]

That's what I'm trying to avoid. As I said in my previous post Id rather get two identical 2x8GB kits because it's much, much cheaper.

Asus, which wrote the article linked above, has a vested interest in consumers choosing nothing but single kits on the QVL, because it wants to avoid RMAs. That absolutely doesn't mean you can't buy two kits. I'm running two identical DDR4-2666 kits on my Asus X99 Pro and it works fine. Yes, it's much much cheaper.

The only time the concerns Asus raises would be relevant is when running highly tuned RAM at the edge of the chip's stability.

 

[2blzd]

Asus, which wrote the article linked above, has a vested interest in consumers choosing nothing but single kits on the QVL, because it wants to avoid RMAs. That absolutely doesn't mean you can't buy two kits. I'm running two identical DDR4-2666 kits on my Asus X99 Pro and it works fine. Yes, it's much much cheaper.

The only time the concerns Asus raises would be relevant is when running highly tuned RAM at the edge of the chip's stability.

Makes sense, thanks for the follow up.

I just looked at my build on PCpartpicker and I was surprised to see the 4X8GB kit of the ram I wanted is the same price as 2 x 2X8 kits.


Interesting..Guess its a moot pt

 

[wyssn11]

I dont see how its king of the hill in anything but price.

It is not the most expensive, and it definitely does not have the most cores. You can get 22core processors which work on the X99 chipset branded Xeon. True its a Enterprise CPU, but it works in a Consumer branded board and not your not limited to a enterprise board.

But without getting into a full debate, enthusiast gear was meshed with enterprise hence you cant call it consumer anymore, as the Z170 is the true "consumer" class gear, and enthusiast is classed with enterprise.

So what is it king of the hill in?
Gaming? Nope
Computing? Nope
Breaking your wallet? YES!
It almost feels like intel got together with activision and decided to pull this dung out like CoD - Infinite Warfare...



:\
Did you miss this guy who posted his 22 core monster playing doom?
Not really jelly at you, but definitely jelly at this guy below.

44 logical threads = 22core + HT... now that is a monster...

Now... aigomorla... dun get jelly, there is no need to, the cost of my setup is less than the top consumer part. Anyway these Xeon parts are broadwell-E too

by the way it's showing 44 logical threads, bcos i couldn't get doom 2016 to run on both processor groups..