British Airline Passengers Refuse to Fly With Muslims on Board

[dahunan]

The Radical Muslims are far more vocal in the UK too... Hasn't the UK kicked out a few radical piece of ****** clerics before and I will bet the UK police are SCARED of the radical muslims and are afraid to offend them..

I just read this whole thing and I felt scared afterwards
http://www.russbaker.com/Salon%20-%20The%20Past%20As%20Prologue.htm

The mosque was run by the blind cleric named Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, who had fled Egypt where he faced charges of plotting to overthrow that country's president. Having entered the United States despite being on a terrorist watch list, he routinely inflamed his immigrant flock with incitements to "kill the enemies of God."

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

You forgot to mention the blame on others for interfering and policy choices as well. Not that it's total, of course, just additional. I mostly bring this up because I don't see much blame being laid on moderate Christians to reign in extremists, and other similar situations.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

Much of the blame on our part is not doing something sooner and just hoping the problem would go away. Hopefully people are getting tired of these antic and stop crying about profiling.. Maybe the the muslim community would do something about this problem everything if every muslim had to be frisked before they get on any form of public transportation. It is past time to inconvenience the portion of the population that is causing the problems.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

You forgot to mention the blame on others for interfering and policy choices as well. Not that it's total, of course, just additional.

Indeed...although I was assigning "future blame" as it were...there is plenty of blame for what has already happened as well, and a HUGE part of that belongs to the US, Europe and the USSR for spending the past several decades screwing around in the Middle East for their own gain. If everyone had stayed the hell out of the Middle East, we might be facing a number of moderate democracies instead of anti-US, radical religious governments.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

You forgot to mention the blame on others for interfering and policy choices as well. Not that it's total, of course, just additional. I mostly bring this up because I don't see much blame being laid on moderate Christians to reign in extremists, and other similar situations.

When were the last MASS MURDERS committed by Christians? Especially something as horrific as 9/11?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

You forgot to mention the blame on others for interfering and policy choices as well. Not that it's total, of course, just additional.

Indeed...although I was assigning "future blame" as it were...there is plenty of blame for what has already happened as well, and a HUGE part of that belongs to the US, Europe and the USSR for spending the past several decades screwing around in the Middle East for their own gain. If everyone had stayed the hell out of the Middle East, we might be facing a number of moderate democracies instead of anti-US, radical religious governments.

So true .. so very very true.. at least logic says it should be.. religion doesn't really follow logic though.. eh :-(

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

Much of the blame on our part is not doing something sooner and just hoping the problem would go away. Hopefully people are getting tired of these antic and stop crying about profiling.. Maybe the the muslim community would do something about this problem everything if every muslim had to be frisked before they get on any form of public transportation. It is past time to inconvenience the portion of the population that is causing the problems.

Yes, because the best way to get people to help you is treating them all like a bunch of criminals. If we start treating all Muslims like they are terrorists, we're going to be giving that much more support to the radical elements. After all, it's hard to refute the words of a radical cleric telling Muslims that the west is anti-Muslim when they are getting harassed at airports while white Christians breeze right through security.

We'd be far better off helping and supporting moderate leaders within the Islamic community, the rather questionable security gains from profiling would be offset by the damage we'd do the moderate influence.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

Much of the blame on our part is not doing something sooner and just hoping the problem would go away. Hopefully people are getting tired of these antic and stop crying about profiling.. Maybe the the muslim community would do something about this problem everything if every muslim had to be frisked before they get on any form of public transportation. It is past time to inconvenience the portion of the population that is causing the problems.

Yes, because the best way to get people to help you is treating them all like a bunch of criminals. If we start treating all Muslims like they are terrorists, we're going to be giving that much more support to the radical elements. After all, it's hard to refute the words of a radical cleric telling Muslims that the west is anti-Muslim when they are getting harassed at airports while white Christians breeze right through security.

We'd be far better off helping and supporting moderate leaders within the Islamic community, the rather questionable security gains from profiling would be offset by the damage we'd do the moderate influence.

So far being nice to them and encouragin the moderates has gained us nothing. There groups is causing the problems, it is time to crack down on that group. It is past time to stop being PC with this problem.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

You forgot to mention the blame on others for interfering and policy choices as well. Not that it's total, of course, just additional. I mostly bring this up because I don't see much blame being laid on moderate Christians to reign in extremists, and other similar situations.

When were the last MASS MURDERS committed by Christians? Especially something as horrific as 9/11?

As indicated by the post previous to yours, I was also speaking of western interference in middle-east (or pretty much anyones) business. Most major problems today are of the US's own making. Yet we refuse to learn, and refuse to take responsibility for what we have wrought.

As for 'christian extremists':

KKK, Crusades, witch trials, inquisition, abortion center bombings, etc. You also have to look at the rhetoric of the more extreme groups today (robertson, etc) which call for violence done in the lord's name, and ask; who should be telling these freaks to chill? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you think muslims should control muslims, then you need to get christians to control christians.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

Much of the blame on our part is not doing something sooner and just hoping the problem would go away. Hopefully people are getting tired of these antic and stop crying about profiling.. Maybe the the muslim community would do something about this problem everything if every muslim had to be frisked before they get on any form of public transportation. It is past time to inconvenience the portion of the population that is causing the problems.

Yes, because the best way to get people to help you is treating them all like a bunch of criminals. If we start treating all Muslims like they are terrorists, we're going to be giving that much more support to the radical elements. After all, it's hard to refute the words of a radical cleric telling Muslims that the west is anti-Muslim when they are getting harassed at airports while white Christians breeze right through security.

We'd be far better off helping and supporting moderate leaders within the Islamic community, the rather questionable security gains from profiling would be offset by the damage we'd do the moderate influence.

So far being nice to them and encouragin the moderates has gained us nothing. There groups is causing the problems, it is time to crack down on that group. It is past time to stop being PC with this problem.

I must have missed the part where we did that...if we did, we might want to try a little harder next time.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison
WIthout judging these actions being right or wrong, they are hardly surprising. The muslim community has done a poor job of policing its own and condemning terrorist actions. At some point the rest of the world is going to crack down on the entire muslim community because there is going to be no other way to remove this problem.

I agree, that probably will happen...and what could have been the job of police and moderates within the Muslim community will become a full blown war between countries and within countries. Part of the blame lies with moderate Muslims failing to do anything to clean up their communities, and part of the blame lies with the rest of us for giving them little reason to do so. Threatening them (which is what we're basically doing) is NOT good motivation in this case.

Much of the blame on our part is not doing something sooner and just hoping the problem would go away. Hopefully people are getting tired of these antic and stop crying about profiling.. Maybe the the muslim community would do something about this problem everything if every muslim had to be frisked before they get on any form of public transportation. It is past time to inconvenience the portion of the population that is causing the problems.

Yes, because the best way to get people to help you is treating them all like a bunch of criminals. If we start treating all Muslims like they are terrorists, we're going to be giving that much more support to the radical elements. After all, it's hard to refute the words of a radical cleric telling Muslims that the west is anti-Muslim when they are getting harassed at airports while white Christians breeze right through security.

We'd be far better off helping and supporting moderate leaders within the Islamic community, the rather questionable security gains from profiling would be offset by the damage we'd do the moderate influence.

So far being nice to them and encouragin the moderates has gained us nothing. There groups is causing the problems, it is time to crack down on that group. It is past time to stop being PC with this problem.

I must have missed the part where we did that...if we did, we might want to try a little harder next time.

The muslim community as a whole as gotten a free pass for not policing itself. Anytime the issue of profiling is brought up and rejected as being wrong. But how many times will we give them a pass before it is rejected.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? Who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism. If you're saying that we cannot allow the former to turn into the latter, then I agree...but we shouldn't ignore the facts just because some might find the truth offensive.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism.

As long as we keep in the front of our minds such atrocities as Japanese internment, Indian schools & relocation, etc. I wouldn't go to war over airport security 'randomly' screening more arabs than grandmothers...I WILL go to war if people try to tell everyone of a particular faith or race that they have to live in tents under guard just in case they should try something bad.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism.

As long as we keep in the front of our minds such atrocities as Japanese internment, Indian schools & relocation, etc. I wouldn't go to war over airport security 'randomly' screening more arabs than grandmothers...I WILL go to war if people try to tell everyone of a particular faith or race that they have to live in tents under guard just in case they should try something bad.

I dont think anyone has yet suggested we move all the muslims into camps. B ut if they keep trying to blow stuff up it will become an increasily more interesting proposal to do so. Youa re free to practice what ever religion you want, but you are not free to blow ****** up in the name of your religtion.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism. If you're saying that we cannot allow the former to turn into the latter, then I agree...but we shouldn't ignore the facts just because some might find the truth offensive.

Of course I see the difference...and I agree that we shouldn't let one turn into the other. And I'll even admit that ignoring the facts in favor of being PC isn't always a smart idea.

But I'm not (at the moment) arguing that profiling is a bad idea because some might find it offensive, I'm arguing against it because I think it makes a very real difference in the message we send to the Muslim community, something I think is more important than any questionable gains in security profiling gives us. It's hard to tell them that we don't view their community as separate and bad if they're getting singled out at the airport. And I think the problems with doing that go far beyond offending people, I think a big part of winning the conflict with radical Islam is winning the support of moderate Muslims. And I don't know about you, but I'm not real inclined to want to support people who treat me like a criminal because of my religion.

I think the problem is we're discussing two different problems. You seem to think that we can win entirely by using police and intelligence forces effectively. I'm saying that while they have a part to play, it's also important how we treat the rest of the Muslim community here too. As I said, and something that no one seems to have responded to, a member of the British Muslim community was instrumental in preventing the latest terrorist attack in England. I think getting more people like him on our side is worth not turning "Flying while Arab" into the new "driving while black". After all, airport security anal-probing every Muslim going through probably wouldn't have prevented the attack in England, but having a friendly member of the Muslim community on our side did. Now are you going to tell me that cultivating those kind of friendships isn't an important consideration...that it just amounts to being too PC?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism.

As long as we keep in the front of our minds such atrocities as Japanese internment, Indian schools & relocation, etc. I wouldn't go to war over airport security 'randomly' screening more arabs than grandmothers...I WILL go to war if people try to tell everyone of a particular faith or race that they have to live in tents under guard just in case they should try something bad.

I dont think anyone has yet suggested we move all the muslims into camps. B ut if they keep trying to blow stuff up it will become an increasily more interesting proposal to do so. Youa re free to practice what ever religion you want, but you are not free to blow ****** up in the name of your religtion.

The vast, VAST majority of Muslims are not trying to "blow stuff up". Sometimes I think we forget that...

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism.

As long as we keep in the front of our minds such atrocities as Japanese internment, Indian schools & relocation, etc. I wouldn't go to war over airport security 'randomly' screening more arabs than grandmothers...I WILL go to war if people try to tell everyone of a particular faith or race that they have to live in tents under guard just in case they should try something bad.

I dont think anyone has yet suggested we move all the muslims into camps. B ut if they keep trying to blow stuff up it will become an increasily more interesting proposal to do so. Youa re free to practice what ever religion you want, but you are not free to blow ****** up in the name of your religtion.

But again, do you advocate the SAME rules for Christians? If extremists don't stop fire bombing people at abortion clinics, do you advocate the 'interesting proposal' of moving ALL christians into camps? No? Is it because of numbers? If so would you please provide the exact number of innocents that must die in the name of christianity in order to earn the same treatment as discussed for those of other religions?

My guess is that no one would side with that idea, because many of them are christians and don't want to go to a camp because they aren't to blame for the actions of a few extremists that share a religion 12,000 miles away. Well guess what? Many muslims don't think they should suffer for exactly the same reasons. It's an all or nothing deal, no special treatment.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism. If you're saying that we cannot allow the former to turn into the latter, then I agree...but we shouldn't ignore the facts just because some might find the truth offensive.

Of course I see the difference...and I agree that we shouldn't let one turn into the other. And I'll even admit that ignoring the facts in favor of being PC isn't always a smart idea.

But I'm not (at the moment) arguing that profiling is a bad idea because some might find it offensive, I'm arguing against it because I think it makes a very real difference in the message we send to the Muslim community, something I think is more important than any questionable gains in security profiling gives us. It's hard to tell them that we don't view their community as separate and bad if they're getting singled out at the airport. And I think the problems with doing that go far beyond offending people, I think a big part of winning the conflict with radical Islam is winning the support of moderate Muslims. And I don't know about you, but I'm not real inclined to want to support people who treat me like a criminal because of my religion.

I think the problem is we're discussing two different problems. You seem to think that we can win entirely by using police and intelligence forces effectively. I'm saying that while they have a part to play, it's also important how we treat the rest of the Muslim community here too. As I said, and something that no one seems to have responded to, a member of the British Muslim community was instrumental in preventing the latest terrorist attack in England. I think getting more people like him on our side is worth not turning "Flying while Arab" into the new "driving while black". After all, airport security anal-probing every Muslim going through probably wouldn't have prevented the attack in England, but having a friendly member of the Muslim community on our side did. Now are you going to tell me that cultivating those kind of friendships isn't an important consideration...that it just amounts to being too PC?

So to cultivate trust, why dont we just give every member of muslim community an express pass. The skip all airport security while the screeners patdown grandmas. This is basically what you are asking for, since you dont want this community bothered in anyway.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism.

As long as we keep in the front of our minds such atrocities as Japanese internment, Indian schools & relocation, etc. I wouldn't go to war over airport security 'randomly' screening more arabs than grandmothers...I WILL go to war if people try to tell everyone of a particular faith or race that they have to live in tents under guard just in case they should try something bad.

I dont think anyone has yet suggested we move all the muslims into camps. B ut if they keep trying to blow stuff up it will become an increasily more interesting proposal to do so. Youa re free to practice what ever religion you want, but you are not free to blow ****** up in the name of your religtion.

The vast, VAST majority of Muslims are not trying to "blow stuff up". Sometimes I think we forget that...

Your right, but the vast majority of people trying to blow stuff up, fit a pretty narrow profile.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism. If you're saying that we cannot allow the former to turn into the latter, then I agree...but we shouldn't ignore the facts just because some might find the truth offensive.

Of course I see the difference...and I agree that we shouldn't let one turn into the other. And I'll even admit that ignoring the facts in favor of being PC isn't always a smart idea.

But I'm not (at the moment) arguing that profiling is a bad idea because some might find it offensive, I'm arguing against it because I think it makes a very real difference in the message we send to the Muslim community, something I think is more important than any questionable gains in security profiling gives us. It's hard to tell them that we don't view their community as separate and bad if they're getting singled out at the airport. And I think the problems with doing that go far beyond offending people, I think a big part of winning the conflict with radical Islam is winning the support of moderate Muslims. And I don't know about you, but I'm not real inclined to want to support people who treat me like a criminal because of my religion.

I think the problem is we're discussing two different problems. You seem to think that we can win entirely by using police and intelligence forces effectively. I'm saying that while they have a part to play, it's also important how we treat the rest of the Muslim community here too. As I said, and something that no one seems to have responded to, a member of the British Muslim community was instrumental in preventing the latest terrorist attack in England. I think getting more people like him on our side is worth not turning "Flying while Arab" into the new "driving while black". After all, airport security anal-probing every Muslim going through probably wouldn't have prevented the attack in England, but having a friendly member of the Muslim community on our side did. Now are you going to tell me that cultivating those kind of friendships isn't an important consideration...that it just amounts to being too PC?

So to cultivate trust, why dont we just give every member of muslim community an express pass. The skip all airport security while the screeners patdown grandmas. This is basically what you are asking for, since you dont want this community bothered in anyway.

Hmm, how about a compromise...we treat them like the normal people they are, with the same rights and privileges as the rest of us. It's a radical idea, I know, but it just might work!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Just my opinion...but...on one hand, what they did is absolutely wrong, and contrary to above posts, it has NOTHING to do with profiling by an actual law enforcement agency (which I agree with; sorry, but the people who want us dead are all Muslim males belonging to certain ethnic groups and falling within a certain age range, so we'd be stupid to just keep searching the little white grandmas). Profiling by trained agents is one thing, but this article is describing outright bigotry by private citizens, so in a way it is sort of a "victory" for the extremist savages.

On the other hand, it comes right after another plot involving British Muslims, so I understand why the passengers were uptight. Not admirable in the least, but human nature. Plus, and I'm sorry to say this, but maybe its time that the "normal" Muslims finally get the picture of the impact that certain elements in their society are directly having on them and theirs in the eyes of the rest of the world. I realize that only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism, but it certainly WAS NOT just the radicals that went ape-sh*t over ridiculous issues like the Danish cartoons.

I don't say this because I want them to be discriminated against, but because I want them to finally get PISSED at the neanderthals in their midst.

I don't know...seems like a pretty good way to get them pissed at us, not their more extreme brethren. People like you would like to make our war with the entire Muslim community until they do some stuff to make us happy. Which is all well and good, except that you're far more likely to offend the entire community and create more support for the terrorists than anything else. Lest you geniuses forget, the latest attack was prevented, in large part, because individuals living in the British Muslim community stepped forward. Tell me again how profiling and other forms of discrimination are a great way to encourage that sort of thing in the future?

"People like you"? Nothing prejudiced about that statement, right? Can you not fvcking read, or are you just a knee-jerk jackass? Did you miss the "outright bigotry by private citizens", "what they did was absolutely wrong", "only the radical fringe of their world is responsible for terrorism", and so on?

I know, you were so wrapped up in your self-righteous bigot-hunt that you just rushed right to judgement instead of actually reading my post...which of course makes YOU the bigot.

I can read just fine...and you seem a little defensive there, chief.

But am I wrong, did you not suggest profiling was a good idea? Even if law enforcement agencies are doing it, I think it's a big step towards giving the impression that our conflict is with the entire Muslim community...and as I said, I think that's a bad idea on a number of levels.

I don't think you're a bigot for supporting profiling, I think you just haven't really thought your idea through very well.

Profiling by trained law enforcement agencies, yes. Outright discrimination by the public, no. Surely you see the difference, even if you disagree with the premise? To clarify; who should the people responsible for protecting us from terrorist attacks primarily focus on? Sorry, but the vast majority of them share certain religious and ethnic characteristics, and fall within certain age groups. We'd be foolish to ignore that. So is your gray-haired mother the one who should be surveilled and searched at the airport, or should we use the hard criteria we possess to narrow the field, just as law enforcement does when tracking other sorts of criminals?

Does that mean I advocate a bunch of passengers blatantly insulting a couple of Arabs on a plane, or drunken rednecks shooting at Sikh-owned gas stations because the attendant is wearing a turban? Hell no. One is logical investigative technique, the other is ignorant racism.

As long as we keep in the front of our minds such atrocities as Japanese internment, Indian schools & relocation, etc. I wouldn't go to war over airport security 'randomly' screening more arabs than grandmothers...I WILL go to war if people try to tell everyone of a particular faith or race that they have to live in tents under guard just in case they should try something bad.

I dont think anyone has yet suggested we move all the muslims into camps. B ut if they keep trying to blow stuff up it will become an increasily more interesting proposal to do so. Youa re free to practice what ever religion you want, but you are not free to blow ****** up in the name of your religtion.

The vast, VAST majority of Muslims are not trying to "blow stuff up". Sometimes I think we forget that...

Your right, but the vast majority of people trying to blow stuff up, fit a pretty narrow profile.

So? Most stupid people I know seem to vote Republican, does that mean it's ok to assume all Republicans are stupid?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
But again, do you advocate the SAME rules for Christians? If extremists don't stop fire bombing people at abortion clinics, do you advocate the 'interesting proposal' of moving ALL christians into camps? No? Is it because of numbers? If so would you please provide the exact number of innocents that must die in the name of christianity in order to earn the same treatment as discussed for those of other religions?

My guess is that no one would side with that idea, because many of them are christians and don't want to go to a camp because they aren't to blame for the actions of a few extremists that share a religion 12,000 miles away. Well guess what? Many muslims don't think they should suffer for exactly the same reasons. It's an all or nothing deal, no special treatment.

If christians were were leading a concerred effort to blow up abortion clinics, you might have a case. However it was only one person and he his actions were condemned by a significant portion of the christian population.

IF this was widespread, I would have no problems using profiling to help take care of a problem.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: RainsfordSo? Most stupid people I know seem to vote Republican, does that mean it's ok to assume all Republicans are stupid?

And democrats wonder why they cant win elections....

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: charrison

If christians were were leading a concerred effort to blow up abortion clinics, you might have a case. However it was only one person and he his actions were condemned by a significant portion of the christian population.

IF this was widespread, I would have no problems using profiling to help take care of a problem.

Actually there have been MANY attacks on abortion clinics and workers (and there is some support that there is organized violence in some cases). No where near the kinds of actions seen at 9/11, but many. Many muslims condemn the actions of other muslim extremists also.

However, I am very glad to see that you would equally condemn others too. That's really the most I can ask for.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: RainsfordSo? Most stupid people I know seem to vote Republican, does that mean it's ok to assume all Republicans are stupid?

And democrats wonder why they cant win elections....

Thank you for proving my point...

In other words, my comment was stupid and worthy of a smart ass reply (I totally agree, btw) while your comment was a good start on an intelligent security policy. I see how this works...