Brexit Deal Voted down in "Historic Defeat" according to BBC News site (Brexit still happening but PM May is in trouble)

[blankslate]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46885828

Brexit: Theresa May's deal is voted down in historic Commons defeat

MPs voted by 432 votes to 202 to reject the deal, which sets out the terms of Britain's exit from the EU on 29 March.
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has now tabled a vote of no confidence in the government, which could trigger a general election.

I remember hearing on NPR within the past few days that a defeat of 150+ would be considered a very back result.... defeated by over 200...

Well now...

I'm waiting for Jeremy Corbin to roast her and hopefully in the near future drag the corpse of her political career through the streets of London.


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[blankslate]

remember hearing on NPR within the past few days that a defeat of 150+ would be considered a very back result.... defeated by over 200..

Very bad result... oops


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[Bitek]

Such a cluster F.

It needs to go back to a people's vote.

The original but was based on a set of promises, assumptions and some outright lies.

It passed tho. So May negotiated the best deal she could.

So the people should get a vote now they have clarity of what the actual consequences will be.

How you not have a chance for people to decide their fate now known is beyond me.

 

[DigDog]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

 

[pmv]

A lot of Brexiters still seem to be of the 'fog in channel, continent cut-off' mentality. Convinced that the EU will now be desperate to offer concessions. As if our own political paralysis is a trump card (rather than a Trump card, which is something else entirely). We're pointing a gun at our own head while declaring that we now have them where we want them (presumably on the grounds we now have a hostage - admittedly the bullet will probably be a through-and-through and hit Ireland next).

 

[WelshBloke]

I'd expect May to pass the no confidence vote, the EU not to offer any more meaningful concessions, and Mays next deal to fail in the house as well.

No deal Brexit here we go!

 

[pmv]

I have problems with some of the remainers as well though.

For example, Stewart Lee - who I used to quite like but now find just unbearably smug. That 'joke' of his about Brexit voters being either racists or c*nts, for example - how in God's name is that helping the situation? It's the Hillary 'deplorables' speech with added obscenity. I'm sure it plays well to his Observer-reading self-regarding core audience who pay his bills, but it desn't do anything for those of us worried where we are going.

2/3 of people in Burnley, for example, voted leave. Is the right-on metropolitan thing to do now to just write-off great swathes of the country outside London as, well, 'deplorables'? How is that a solution to anything?

I do occasionally have thoughts of 'just break the country up - London and the other remain-voting areas can stay in, and the rest of the country can leave if it wants'. But then I realise I don't want to be stuck in a city-state with George Osbourne, David Cameron, Nick Clegg and the financial sector, while the rest of the country slides into destitution while seething with resentment against the metropolis.

(That's a bit too similar to how the citizens of Sarajavo came to find mortar shells falling on their heads.)

I blame the neo-liberals. They seem to have precipitated the very threat their project was supposed to avert.

 

[biostud]

One thing is UK, but Ireland are in for a rough ride, that they did not ask for.

 

[vi edit]

I know total jack shit about England and it's legal system. Is there a legal path to just say "MULLIGAN!" and toss this thing back for a re-vote to the general population for a sanity check?

I mean hell, in our own senate we do procedural votes on things before the "real" ones. Can they just sack this vote and offer a "Are you sure?" dialog box before clicking the Brexit button?

 

[mikeymikec]

I know total jack shit about England and it's legal system. Is there a legal path to just say "MULLIGAN!" and toss this thing back for a re-vote to the general population for a sanity check?

If there wasn't a legal path to do so, then that would be have shouted from the hilltops by Brexiteers many times already. The EU have said that Article 50 can be rescinded, a fair few government ministers have suggested a second referendum, it's all possible.

With regard to a second referendum, I think there are an additional two problems to be faced:

1 - How to combat blatant BS (mostly put out by Brexiteers);
2 - Getting both sides to agree on universal truths such as 'no-deal Brexit' being an astonishingly bad idea.

 

[Stokely]

No deal or a new referendum sure look like possibilities after yesterday. I mean, at some point when you are falling off a cliff "hitting the bottom" becomes not only possible but probable.

What cracks me up are the mps calling for May to state that there must be a deal--and they turn down hers. How the hell is that supposed to work, lol! "We want you to guarantee a deal, but no way in hell we are going to vote for anything you propose!" Seems like the non-tories are simply playing to bring down May and don't want any part of making a deal that would pass--yet Labour at least voted for Brexit, so they should be on the hook too. If I was a Labour voter who didn't want Brexit, I'd be pretty pissed at them just playing political games when the future of the country is at stake.

Disclaimer: ignorant American who knows little about the British system, but who greatly enjoys watching Speaker Bercow. Compared to British politics, American dealings seem about as complicated as electing a 3rd grade class president.

 

[mikeymikec]

yet Labour at least voted for Brexit

What do you mean?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/how-mp-vote-eu-referendum-9187679
Scroll down to "How Labour MPs were voting on the EU"

 

[pmv]

What cracks me up are the mps calling for May to state that there must be a deal--and they turn down hers. How the hell is that supposed to work, lol! "We want you to guarantee a deal, but no way in hell we are going to vote for anything you propose!"

Plus they are in no way prepared to take the responsibility of trying to get a deal themselves. They insist she stays in the job yet reject everything she does while in that job. Though she enables them by refusing to quit - they are in a co-dependent relationship.

 

[WelshBloke]

What cracks me up are the mps calling for May to state that there must be a deal--and they turn down hers.

The problem with May is that she talks in soundbites without engaging her brain a lot.

Anyone remember "No deal is better than a bad deal"?
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...better-than-a-bad-deal-says-theresa-may-video

 

[WelshBloke]

I know total jack shit about England and it's legal system. Is there a legal path to just say "MULLIGAN!" and toss this thing back for a re-vote to the general population for a sanity check?

I mean hell, in our own senate we do procedural votes on things before the "real" ones. Can they just sack this vote and offer a "Are you sure?" dialog box before clicking the Brexit button?

Backing out of the whole thing procedurally is pretty easy. We just say we arent leaving and everyone pretends this debacle never happened. They can do this with or without a new referendum.

The problem is most of the Tories want to leave, May is utterly wet and wont stand up for what she believes (she was a remainer before she realised that being a brexiteer gave her a better job), and the leader of the opposition has been anti EU for as long as hes been in politics (he voted against joining the EEC and has been eurosceptic ever since).
The only way we'll have another referendum or decide not to leave is if all the politicians suddenly admit that they are utterly incompetent and cant organise anything.

 

[UNCjigga]

It’s fun to be able to laugh at some other country’s incompetent government for once!

Good job May, delaying this vote really worked out for you. What’s hilarious is that after this historic defeat, she should be annihilated politically. And yet, she’s somewhat likely to stay on as Conservative leader because no one wants her job. And the Tories don’t want to call an election either, since they will likely lose to Labour.

If I were Vladdy Putin, I’d have the SVR reaching out to former IRA folks and using social media to stoke the fires of Northern Ireland and Scottish separatist movements (while also getting oligarch cronies fat on all sorts of trade deals with a desperate U.K.)

 

[biostud]

They all know what they don't want, but cannot agree to something they do want.

 

[mikeymikec]

The problem is most of the Tories want to leave

Not true AFAIK. See the Mirror article I URL'd earlier in this thread.

I think one of the things that the Tories fear at this point is that the referendum, the utter waste of time and money and lost business opportunities that Brexit represents, if it doesn't happen at all, will be laid at the Tories' feet by the masses (rightly so IMO as the referendum was their idea in the first place and some of the chief architects of Brexit were Tories). It will piss literally everyone off, and Brexiteers will inevitably feel that the Tories pulled this stunt to get elected (true) and now want to do a 180 now they have power (whereas actually it's just a piss-poor idea and they don't want to get hit with the fallout of Brexit going sour).

, May is utterly wet and wont stand up for what she believes (she was a remainer before she realised that being a brexiteer gave her a better job), and the leader of the opposition has been anti EU for as long as hes been in politics (he voted against joining the EEC and has been eurosceptic ever since).
The only way we'll have another referendum or decide not to leave is if all the politicians suddenly admit that they are utterly incompetent and cant organise anything.

I think May could have picked up a lot of kudos by saying from the start of her leadership that all options will be on the table and she would do her best to get the best Brexit deal but not at the expense of the UK's long term prospects, and be realistic about what those prospects are if "Brexit at any cost" were to occur, and say that while she is leader, she will do her best to shoulder the responsibility of serving the will of the people while doing her best for the people.

But I agree, she's been wasting her time pointlessly trying to appeal and concede to extremists in her party. I honestly think that she believes she can please anyone, which is a stupid way to think most of the time in politics and unbelievably stupid on the topic of Brexit. She may as well be trying to conduct peace talks between ISIS and the BNP.

 

[Bitek]

I know total jack shit about England and it's legal system. Is there a legal path to just say "MULLIGAN!" and toss this thing back for a re-vote to the general population for a sanity check?

I mean hell, in our own senate we do procedural votes on things before the "real" ones. Can they just sack this vote and offer a "Are you sure?" dialog box before clicking the Brexit button?

> format UK: /Brexit
WARNING ALL EU DATA ON NON-REMOVABLE DISK
DRIVE UK: WILL BE LOST!
Proceed with Format <Y/N>?_

 

[Bitek]

May survives the no confidence vote.
WTF pussies.

Can't hand her the worst defeat in history, hurl all sorts of complaints and insults, then be asked:
"So do you want to have a go at it then?"
-"Ah, well, no. Carry on."

Call a people's vote and end the farce.

 

[blankslate]

May survives the no confidence vote.
WTF pussies.

Well at least we can take Pyrrhic comfort in the fact that the U.K. government is almost as dysfunctional as our own...

I guess?


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[IronWing]

Is May getting anything else done (non-Brexit Conservative stuff like making the rich richer and screwing everyone else)? Otherwise I wouldn't see the point in her staying on. Who needs the headache?

 

[Jaskalas]

Otherwise I wouldn't see the point in her staying on. Who needs the headache?

No one else is willing to lead the UK into a Hard Brexit. And that is about to happen, with the continued rejection of deal to make it a softer, friendlier, Brexit. May is therefore destined to remain Captain of the Titanic.

 

[sdifox]

What a clusterfuck.

 

[Exterous]

A lot of Brexiters still seem to be of the 'fog in channel, continent cut-off' mentality. Convinced that the EU will now be desperate to offer concessions. As if our own political paralysis is a trump card (rather than a Trump card, which is something else entirely). We're pointing a gun at our own head while declaring that we now have them where we want them (presumably on the grounds we now have a hostage - admittedly the bullet will probably be a through-and-through and hit Ireland next).

Yeah. I also feel like there is this thought that the EU has some sort of large incentive to cave to demands when it really doesn't. Will there be fallout? Sure but some areas are already seeing benefits as companies move their businesses from the UK to the EU (particularly finance which has already moved $1trillion from the UK to the EU not to mention a few thousand jobs).

Meanwhile the UK has so much to lose...

I hope you guys get it straightened out