Brexit Deal Voted down in "Historic Defeat" according to BBC News site (Brexit still happening but PM May is in trouble)

[pmv]

Perhaps. I'm not 100% sure what that 'truth' is, and if I heard it I suspect I'd LOL. At the moment they seem to run their campaign based on an all-consuming fear of UKIP/Brexit Party and Corbyn. Anti-Corbyn sentiment may drive their voters in their favour, but UKIP/Brexit Party are basically tories on crack, so that's kind of enticing to closet racists.



I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this point. If Labour jettisoned all of its 'Leave' MPs, maybe 5% would be gone. If the tories jettisoned its 'Leave' MPs, about 33% would be gone. I can cite all of the Parliamentary votes on this point. The tories also have a far larger problem with rebellion on Brexit.

As for Labour's base (members of the Labour party who are not MPs), I'm not sure. I haven't seen figures on that point.

I assume 'base' means 'electoral base' not membership. The membership are strongly pro-remain. Not only are many of the voters pro-leave, but their distribution means they could have a disproportionate effect on Labour MPs.

I think there's also another issue - the need to avoid an irredeemable divide among the population of the country. Perhaps that ship has sailed, though.

The Tory party has been captured by Brexit-Ultras. While all the media and the centrists were banging on about the evil commies and IRA-supporters secretly taking over the Labour Party, they failed to notice that the far-right has been quietly taking over the Tories.

As far as jettisoning 'leave MPs' goes, Kate Hoey comes to mind. She's pro-Brexit, pro-gun-ownership, pro-fox-hunting, pro-Ulster-Unionist, anti-cyclist and obsessed with 'country issues', and yet, bizarrely, represents an inner-city constituency that includes Brixton.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I assume 'base' means 'electoral base' not membership. The membership are strongly pro-remain. Not only are many of the voters pro-leave, but their distribution means they could have a disproportionate effect on Labour MPs.

I think there's also another issue - the need to avoid an irredeemable divide among the population of the country. Perhaps that ship has sailed, though.

The Tory party has been captured by Brexit-Ultras. While all the media and the centrists were banging on about the evil commies and IRA-supporters secretly taking over the Labour Party, they failed to notice that the far-right has been quietly taking over the Tories.

As far as jettisoning 'leave MPs' goes, Kate Hoey comes to mind. She's pro-Brexit, pro-gun-ownership, pro-fox-hunting, pro-Ulster-Unionist, anti-cyclist and obsessed with 'country issues', and yet, bizarrely, represents an inner-city constituency that includes Brixton.

Wooooo-ah, the Guns of Brixton.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Well, England anyway. I think the Scots and possibly Northern Ireland will be back in the EU sooner.

Scotland will definitely be a free country again.

 

[DarthKyrie]

I assume 'base' means 'electoral base' not membership. The membership are strongly pro-remain. Not only are many of the voters pro-leave, but their distribution means they could have a disproportionate effect on Labour MPs.

I think there's also another issue - the need to avoid an irredeemable divide among the population of the country. Perhaps that ship has sailed, though.

The Tory party has been captured by Brexit-Ultras. While all the media and the centrists were banging on about the evil commies and IRA-supporters secretly taking over the Labour Party, they failed to notice that the far-right has been quietly taking over the Tories.

As far as jettisoning 'leave MPs' goes, Kate Hoey comes to mind. She's pro-Brexit, pro-gun-ownership, pro-fox-hunting, pro-Ulster-Unionist, anti-cyclist and obsessed with 'country issues', and yet, bizarrely, represents an inner-city constituency that includes Brixton.

How the hell did that "woman" get elected with that constituency?

 

[Greenman]

Scotland will definitely be a free country again.

It's not now?

 

[DarthKyrie]

It's not now?

I'm talking independence wise, it's been 300 years since the Union took place with England.

 

[Greenman]

I'm talking independence wise, it's been 300 years since the Union took place with England.

Got it, thank you.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Got it, thank you.

No problem, I was going to be an ass about it but I decided to use history instead. With that said, in some ways, Scotland is actually more free than the United States is.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm talking independence wise, it's been 300 years since the Union took place with England.

They voted against independence 5 years ago. Brexit may change their minds.

With some work, the UK could be reduced to something like the balkans, I suspect. How about independent England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland & Ireland?

It would be even better with more guns, I'm sure.

 

[DarthKyrie]

They voted against independence 5 years ago. Brexit may change their minds.

With some work, the UK could be reduced to something like the balkans, I suspect. How about independent England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland & Ireland?

It would be even better with more guns, I'm sure.

I don't ever see Wales breaking away from England. I could see Scotland, Northern Ireland & Ireland uniting into a country all their own thou.

 

[mikeymikec]

Kate Hoey
She's pro-Brexit, pro-gun-ownership, pro-fox-hunting, pro-Ulster-Unionist, anti-cyclist and obsessed with 'country issues', and yet, bizarrely, represents an inner-city constituency that includes Brixton.

<looks her up>
She's Labour?!?

 

[pmv]

They voted against independence 5 years ago. Brexit may change their minds.

With some work, the UK could be reduced to something like the balkans, I suspect. How about independent England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland & Ireland?

It would be even better with more guns, I'm sure.

I think Scottish independence is a constant possibility. Last time they screwed up by not resolving the currency question, they need to settle on a viable answer to that. They are also vulnerable to swings in the price of oil. And _some_ Scottish Nats have a dark side to them - something that is true of _all_ nationalism, 'progressive' or otherwise. But I can absolutely see the logic in the idea of an independent Scotland. and Brexit highlights that logic. Not sure how I'd feel about it if I were Scottish.

And sometimes I find myself wishing London could do the same - after all, the proportion of Londoners that voted leave is considerably lower than the proportion of Scots who did so. When I hear crazy ranting non-Londoner English Brexiters on phone-ins and the web, I have a momentary thought that I don't want to be part of the same country as these guys. Let's have a 'hard border' at the M25. But it's not really a viable idea.

And just as with the EU, I think in the end whatever the flaws it's better to stay and fight to fix things than to try and sail off on your own.

Wales voted for Brexit just as most of England did. N Ireland ought to be part of a united Ireland, in my opinion, that's how it should have worked out in the first place. Damn ironic though that at this point Ireland is more 'liberal' than is either side in the North. It almost seems as if when it comes to social 'issues' the two sides in NI have more in common with each other than either do with the British or the Irish.

 

[pmv]

<looks her up>
She's Labour?!?

To be fair, I don't know _what_ party she'd fit into. She seems all over the shop politically, to me. How does one reconcile being against foundation hospitals and in favour of free schools? Those are both steps towards privatisation, of the NHS and education respectively, so how do you end up supporting one and opposing the other? And she's clearly a rural Ulster Protestant, and that influences her politics, so why is she the MP for a multi-racial inner-city constituency like Vauxhall? There are certainly gun-owners in her constituency but I don't think they are what she has in mind when she argues to defend gun-ownership.

I just know I disagree with her on a long list of issues, and her being pro-Brexit isn't even the biggest one.

 

[uallas5]

Wales voted for Brexit just as most of England did.

The irony being that Wales is a major recipient of EU funding for research and health:

European Funding after Brexit in Wales

As we approach 31st October, NHS organisations in Wales are still no clearer on EU funding which will be available to them after the UK has left the EU.

www.nhsconfed.org

Per capita Wales receives more than twice as much as any other country in the UK. £83 per person per year, compared to £13 in England, £18 in Scotland and £30 in Northern Ireland.

Horizon Europe: European research and innovation programme | GOV.WALES

Horizon Europe is the current European programme for research and innovation.

gov.wales

Welsh organisations have secured just over €100m of Horizon 2020 funding since the start of the programme.

 

[sdifox]

Not clear? WTF...

 

[Jhhnn]

The irony being that Wales is a major recipient of EU funding for research and health:

European Funding after Brexit in Wales

As we approach 31st October, NHS organisations in Wales are still no clearer on EU funding which will be available to them after the UK has left the EU.

www.nhsconfed.org

Per capita Wales receives more than twice as much as any other country in the UK. £83 per person per year, compared to £13 in England, £18 in Scotland and £30 in Northern Ireland.

Horizon Europe: European research and innovation programme | GOV.WALES

Horizon Europe is the current European programme for research and innovation.

gov.wales

Welsh organisations have secured just over €100m of Horizon 2020 funding since the start of the programme.

It's like Mississippi voting Republican, huh?

 

[pmv]

How the hell did that "woman" get elected with that constituency?

With very few exceptions, people generally vote for parties, not MPs, regardless of what some MPs sometimes try to claim. Which is why it's a bit disreputable when MPs change party after being elected without standing for election again.
Hoey wasn't even chosen by the local Labour Party, the national leadership just imposed her.

 

[Greenman]

It's like Mississippi voting Republican, huh?

Be nice to Mississippi! I'm going to move there in a few years. I already have overalls and instructions on how to set up a meth lab, all I need to do is lose a few teeth and start chewing tobacco and I'll be the next governor.

 

[pmv]

The chaos continues!

Time to cart him off to the White Tower.

Brexit Turmoil Intensifies as Court Rebukes Boris Johnson (Published 2019)

In a major blow to the prime minister, the court ruled unanimously that Parliament is still in session, whatever Mr. Johnson might think.

www.nytimes.com

 

[pmv]

I believe this gives us a clear lead in the 'break your own political system' contest we seem to be having with the US.

 

[ecogen]

I believe this gives us a clear lead in the 'break your own political system' contest we seem to be having with the US.

How so? I don't see the issue with this ruling unless you want an executive with unlimited power. It wasn't even controversial or anything, 11-0.

 

[cytg111]

Yea if anything your system is still working... noone above the law and all that.

 

[pmv]

Yea if anything your system is still working... noone above the law and all that.

Well, fair point there, but it's the fact it's actually come to this point. Johnson is doing what Trump does - stress-testing the entire system. A better-designed system would not have gotten us to this point.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm amazed the supreme court ruled in sanity's favour. After the last few rulings, I expected this to be another 'bought and paid for' ruling, so perhaps I was mistaken. Perhaps they'd had enough political fallout being thrown over to their side of the fence and kicked back?

 

[pmv]

And in a sane situation Johnson would now resign. That you can lie so egregiously (as the likes of Johnson and Rees-Mogg have) and be found to have broken the law in a way that actually threatens democracy and just carry on, again suggests the system is not working properly. Rees-Mogg in particular is symptomatic of the deep current of forelock-tugging and cap-doffing that pervades this country. He talks rubbish in the 'right 'accent, so people think he's an expert.

If Boris were a President he'd be impached for this...oh, wait hang on...