Bremer announces Speedup and Plans for Timetable for Iraq Handover

[tnitsuj]

from BBCNEWS.COM

That's good news and probably the best of the limited options available to us. I only hope that it isn't a prelude to some sham iraqization and a politically expedient pullout.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
from BBCNEWS.COM

That's good news and probably the best of the limited options available to us. I only hope that it isn't a prelude to some sham iraqization and a politically expedient pullout.

Well if there is an expediant pull out, we know who to blame for it. Those that have been yelling quagmire for the last several months know who they are.

 

[Witling]

Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

 

[Gaard]

Good news turns into finger-pointing.

 

[Martin]

Is there anything the left can't be blamed for? 😕

I'm sorry the disappoint you charrison, but the iraqi resistance doesn't care about what americans think. American (and World for that matter) solidarity didn't stop any terrorists. Terrorists organizations didn't disapear once they saw how united americans were in those few months after 9/11

But I can see your point. Its much more convinient to blame the left, rather than yourself and others who pushed relentlessly for this war.

 

[Moonbeam]

We will allow the Iraqis to elect the Baathist party, declare a massive victory for Iraq, and pull out. It's important to democratize Iraq, but not as important as getting Bush re-elected. Any compassionate conservative knows that. You can't do good if you're not in power.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

 

[Witling]

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
from BBCNEWS.COM

That's good news and probably the best of the limited options available to us. I only hope that it isn't a prelude to some sham iraqization and a politically expedient pullout.

Well if there is an expediant pull out, we know who to blame for it. Those that have been yelling quagmire for the last several months know who they are.

God you see this is why I would never vote republican. No accountability at all just like the dem's ! You guys would rather blame the left for everything then to see clearly the fact that Bush Jr. and company screwed the hell up ! The reason they would speed things up and pull out early is because they KNOW that they screwed up but somehow in your warped mind it's always the fault of the left right ?

 

[Gaard]

'Accountability'. Anybody else notice that the member who preaches 'accountability' the most is suspiciously absent from this thread?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

Please explain how those who criticize our presence there without offering a solution puts our troops in more danger? Just saying so without proof doesn't make it so! I think putting out troops there without adequate support and numbers put them at high risk and I can't imagine how someone saying that Bush and his Boys screwed the Pooch on this would make a bit of difference

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

Please explain how those who criticize our presence there without offering a solution puts our troops in more danger? Just saying so without proof doesn't make it so! I think putting out troops there without adequate support and numbers put them at high risk and I can't imagine how someone saying that Bush and his Boys screwed the Pooch on this would make a bit of difference

Well the quagmire crowd does not have much credibility. Look back at this crowd and what they said in afghanistan. Not enough troops, it is too cold, our troops are not prepared and there were even those at that time that said bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.

Look at the invastion of Iraq, the same thing happened. Days into the operation it was called a quagmire because the advance had to wait for the supply to catch up and become secure. Then right after major operations were over, this same crown began yelling about why Iraq was not rebuilt already.

This group of people is not looking out for the security and safety of our troops, but only looking for cheap political gain. This group of people exists. They are probably the same group of people that wants the economy to stay bad or get worse.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsible for deaths that have occurred.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

Yelling does nothing either way. I can yell at the top of my lungs, and a car isn't going to get you run over. Neither is it going to make someone decide to attack. You mention solutions. I don't believe there IS a workable solution, and there never was as far as this administration can comprehend. We plunged over a metaphorical cliff and now are discussing how to avoid crashing on the rocks below. The answer to the problem was never to jump to begin with. A solution? Here it is. Get an army up and running. Meanwhile.

In thirty days- Hold elections for a constitutional convention

In sixty days- Hold elections for a term limited ruling council. I suggest yearly elections until a constitution is ratified.

In ninety days- The army falls under control of the elected ruling council

In 120 days- the US starts leaving Baghdad and surrounding areas to withdraw to a remote location for evac.

In 180 days- All US forces are gone, regardless of circumstances.

Funding for Iraq now gets doubled, but that is more than offset by the fact that operations are curtailed. No 2/3 split for aid going in favor of ops.

Iraq decides who they hire, what to fix, what countries get contracts. The sole US role is to make sure graft is kept to a minimum.

This is a hard and fast and INFLEXIBLE time table. If the Iraqis are having troubles, so be it. If they see we can be used or coerced, we will never get out. Our country had it's share of problems, and it was us that were forced to fix them. Give financial support and accept whatever government they decide upon even is it does not meet with the administrations precise expectations.


There is a plan. US out in 6 months.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

Please explain how those who criticize our presence there without offering a solution puts our troops in more danger? Just saying so without proof doesn't make it so! I think putting out troops there without adequate support and numbers put them at high risk and I can't imagine how someone saying that Bush and his Boys screwed the Pooch on this would make a bit of difference

Well the quagmire crowd does not have much credibility. Look back at this crowd and what they said in afghanistan. Not enough troops, it is too cold, our troops are not prepared and there were even those at that time that said bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.

Look at the invastion of Iraq, the same thing happened. Days into the operation it was called a quagmire because the advance had to wait for the supply to catch up and become secure. Then right after major operations were over, this same crown began yelling about why Iraq was not rebuilt already.

This group of people is not looking out for the security and safety of our troops, but only looking for cheap political gain. This group of people exists. They are probably the same group of people that wants the economy to stay bad or get worse.

OK I can deal with that but I still fail to see how they put our troops in more danger than they already are in. The only ones accountable for the troops lack of safety are the ones that ordered them over there in the first place.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

Please explain how those who criticize our presence there without offering a solution puts our troops in more danger? Just saying so without proof doesn't make it so! I think putting out troops there without adequate support and numbers put them at high risk and I can't imagine how someone saying that Bush and his Boys screwed the Pooch on this would make a bit of difference

Well the quagmire crowd does not have much credibility. Look back at this crowd and what they said in afghanistan. Not enough troops, it is too cold, our troops are not prepared and there were even those at that time that said bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.

Look at the invastion of Iraq, the same thing happened. Days into the operation it was called a quagmire because the advance had to wait for the supply to catch up and become secure. Then right after major operations were over, this same crown began yelling about why Iraq was not rebuilt already.

This group of people is not looking out for the security and safety of our troops, but only looking for cheap political gain. This group of people exists. They are probably the same group of people that wants the economy to stay bad or get worse.

OK I can deal with that but I still fail to see how they put our troops in more danger than they already are in. The only ones accountable for the troops lack of safety are the ones that ordered them over there in the first place.

They are the ones that want to make us look weak and unable to finish the job. This weakness gives resistance in Iraq hope that we can be run out of Iraq.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

Please explain how those who criticize our presence there without offering a solution puts our troops in more danger? Just saying so without proof doesn't make it so! I think putting out troops there without adequate support and numbers put them at high risk and I can't imagine how someone saying that Bush and his Boys screwed the Pooch on this would make a bit of difference

Well the quagmire crowd does not have much credibility. Look back at this crowd and what they said in afghanistan. Not enough troops, it is too cold, our troops are not prepared and there were even those at that time that said bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.

Look at the invastion of Iraq, the same thing happened. Days into the operation it was called a quagmire because the advance had to wait for the supply to catch up and become secure. Then right after major operations were over, this same crown began yelling about why Iraq was not rebuilt already.

This group of people is not looking out for the security and safety of our troops, but only looking for cheap political gain. This group of people exists. They are probably the same group of people that wants the economy to stay bad or get worse.

OK I can deal with that but I still fail to see how they put our troops in more danger than they already are in. The only ones accountable for the troops lack of safety are the ones that ordered them over there in the first place.

They are the ones that want to make us look weak and unable to finish the job. This weakness gives resistance in Iraq hope that we can be run out of Iraq.

That's really reaching. The resistence would be attacking us no matter what was said on this side of the pond!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whitling
Charrison, we were yelling, "Don't go in, they don't like us." But the administration said, "No, they'll be throwing flowers." The excellent possibilities for a quagmire were there from the start. You simply can't go in and organize a democratic government without the social infrastructure. This is Viet Nam all over again except these people don't like us as much as the Vietnamese did.

EDITED: Charrison, I think we have to give the Iraqi resistance a little credit for the speedup. It ain't all a liberal plot.

IF you want give the resistance credit for speeding up our exit, I will have to give the left credit for letting the resistance think we can be run out of iraq.

The left has been talking and ready for a quagmire before this thing started. This talk of quagmire is responsable for deaths that have occured.

No it isn't. Outrage among the Iraqi's towards our presence is. To blame those who criticize our involvement for the deaths of our soldiers there is BS.

I do not blame those that critize our policy. I blame those that only critize policy and offer no solutions. We as a country must have the will to finish this job, even if you do not agree that this job should not have been started in the first place. Yelling quagmire without offering alternative solutionsm, only puts our troops in more danger.

Please explain how those who criticize our presence there without offering a solution puts our troops in more danger? Just saying so without proof doesn't make it so! I think putting out troops there without adequate support and numbers put them at high risk and I can't imagine how someone saying that Bush and his Boys screwed the Pooch on this would make a bit of difference

Well the quagmire crowd does not have much credibility. Look back at this crowd and what they said in afghanistan. Not enough troops, it is too cold, our troops are not prepared and there were even those at that time that said bin laden had nothing to do with 9/11.

Look at the invastion of Iraq, the same thing happened. Days into the operation it was called a quagmire because the advance had to wait for the supply to catch up and become secure. Then right after major operations were over, this same crown began yelling about why Iraq was not rebuilt already.

This group of people is not looking out for the security and safety of our troops, but only looking for cheap political gain. This group of people exists. They are probably the same group of people that wants the economy to stay bad or get worse.

OK I can deal with that but I still fail to see how they put our troops in more danger than they already are in. The only ones accountable for the troops lack of safety are the ones that ordered them over there in the first place.

They are the ones that want to make us look weak and unable to finish the job. This weakness gives resistance in Iraq hope that we can be run out of Iraq.

That's really reaching. The resistence would be attacking us no matter what was said on this side of the pond!

Not reallly, but we will have to agree to disagree here. You only have to look at places like mogadishu, beirut, high altitude bombing of kosovo(afraid to take casualties).

 

[Witling]

Guys, did you ever think about clipping the relevant portion of the quote? There are only so many 1's and 0's in the world.