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'Breathtaking' Waste and Fraud in Hurricane Aid

zendari

Banned
Text

WASHINGTON, June 26 ? Among the many superlatives associated with Hurricane Katrina can now be added this one: it produced one of the most extraordinary displays of scams, schemes and stupefying bureaucratic bungles in modern history, costing taxpayers up to $2 billion.

Gregory D. Kutz, a G.A.O. official, testified before a House panel about fraud and held up one of the $2,000 debit cards given out by FEMA.

A hotel owner in Sugar Land, Tex., has been charged with submitting $232,000 in bills for phantom victims. And roughly 1,100 prison inmates across the Gulf Coast apparently collected more than $10 million in rental and disaster-relief assistance.

There are the bureaucrats who ordered nearly half a billion dollars worth of mobile homes that are still empty, and renovations for a shelter at a former Alabama Army base that cost about $416,000 per evacuee.

And there is the Illinois woman who tried to collect federal benefits by claiming she watched her two daughters drown in the rising New Orleans waters. In fact, prosecutors say, the children did not exist.

The tally of ignoble acts linked to Hurricane Katrina, pulled together by The New York Times from government audits, criminal prosecutions and Congressional investigations, could rise because the inquiries are under way. Even in Washington, a city accustomed to government bloat, the numbers are generating amazement.

"The blatant fraud, the audacity of the schemes, the scale of the waste ? it is just breathtaking," said Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, and chairwoman of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

Such an outcome was feared soon after Congress passed the initial hurricane relief package, as officials at the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the American Red Cross acknowledged that their systems were overwhelmed and tried to create new ones on the fly.

"We did, in fact, put into place never-before-used and untested processes," Donna M. Dannels, acting deputy director of recovery at FEMA, told a House panel this month. "Clearly, because they were untested, they were more subject to error and fraud."

Officials in Washington say they recognized that a certain amount of fraud or improper payments is inevitable in any major disaster, as the government's mission is to rapidly distribute emergency aid. They typically send out excessive payments that represent 1 percent to 3 percent of the relief distributed, money they then ask people to give back.

What was not understood until now was just how large these numbers could become.

The estimate of up to $2 billion in fraud and waste represents nearly 11 percent of the $19 billion spent by FEMA on Hurricanes Katrina and Rita as of mid-June, or about 6 percent of total money that has been obligated.

"This started off as a disaster-relief program, but it turned into a cash cow," said Representative Michael McCaul, Republican of Texas, a former federal prosecutor and now chairman of a House panel investigating storm waste and fraud.

The waste ranged from excessive loads of ice to higher-than-necessary costs on the multibillion-dollar debris removal effort. Some examples are particularly stark.

The $7.9 million spent to renovate the former Fort McClellan Army base in Anniston, Ala., included fixing up a welcome center, clinic and gymnasium, scrubbing away mold and installing a protective fence between the site and a nearby firing range. But when the doors finally opened, only about 10 people showed up each night, leading FEMA to shut down the shelter within one month.

The mobile homes, costing $34,500 each, were supposed to provide temporary housing to hurricane victims. But after Louisiana officials balked at installing them inland, FEMA had no use for them. Nearly half, or about 10,000, of the $860 million worth of units now sit at an airfield in Arkansas, where FEMA is paying $250,000 a month to store them.

The most recent audit came from the Government Accountability Office, which this month estimated that perhaps as much as 21 percent of the $6.3 billion given directly to victims might have been improperly distributed.

"There are tools that are available to get money quickly to individuals and to get disaster relief programs running quickly without seeing so much fraud and waste," said Gregory D. Kutz, managing director of the forensic audits unit at the G.A.O. "But it wasn't really something that FEMA put a high priority on. So it was easy to commit fraud without being detected."

The most disturbing cases, said David R. Dugas, the United States attorney in Louisiana, who is leading a storm antifraud task force for the Justice Department, are those involving government officials accused of orchestrating elaborate scams.

One Louisiana Department of Labor clerk, Wayne P. Lawless, has been charged with issuing about 80 fraudulent disaster unemployment benefit cards in exchange for bribes of up to $300 per application. Mr. Lawless, a state contract worker, announced to one man he helped apply for hurricane benefits that he wanted to "get something out of it," the affidavit said. His lawyer did not respond to several messages left at his office and home for comment.

"The American people are the most generous in the world in responding to a disaster," Mr. Dugas said. "We won't tolerate people in a position of public trust taking advantage of the situation."

Two other men, Mitchell Kendrix of Memphis and Paul Nelson of Lisbon, Me., have pleaded guilty in connection with a scheme in Mississippi in which Mr. Kendrix, a representative for the Army Corps of Engineers, took $100 bribes in exchange for approving phantom loads of hurricane debris from Mr. Nelson.

In New Orleans, two FEMA officials, Andrew Rose and Loyd Holliman, both of Colorado, have pleaded guilty to taking $20,000 in bribes in exchange for inflating the count on the number of meals a contractor was serving disaster workers. And a councilman in St. Tammany Parish, La., Joseph Impastato, has also been charged with trying to extort $100,000 from a debris removal contractor. Mr. Impastato's lawyer, Karl J. Koch, said he was confident his client would be cleared.

A program set up by the American Red Cross and financed by FEMA that provided free hotel rooms to Hurricane Katrina victims also resulted in extraordinary abuse and waste, investigators have found.

First, because the Red Cross did not keep track of the hundreds of thousands of recipients ? they were only required to provide a ZIP code from the hurricane zone to check in ? FEMA frequently sent rental assistance checks to people getting free hotel rooms, the G.A.O. found.

In turn, some hotel managers or owners, like Daniel Yeh, of Sugar Land, exploited the lack of oversight, investigators have charged, and submitted bills for empty rooms or those occupied by paying guests or employees. Mr. Yeh submitted $232,000 in false claims, his arrest affidavit said. His lawyer, Robert Bennett, said that Mr. Yeh was mentally incompetent and that the charges should be dismissed.

And Tina M. Winston of Belleville, Ill., was charged this month with claiming that her two daughters had died in the flooding in New Orleans. But prosecutors said that the children never existed and that Ms. Winston was living in Illinois at the time of the storm. The public defender representing Ms. Winston did not respond to a request for comment.

Charities also were vulnerable to profiteers. In Burbank, Calif., a couple has been charged with collecting donations outside a store by posing as Red Cross workers. In Bakersfield, Calif., 75 workers at a Red Cross call center, their friends and relatives have been charged in a scheme to steal hundreds of thousands of dollars in relief.

To date, Mr. Dugas said, federal prosecutors have filed hurricane-related criminal charges against 335 individuals. That represents a record number of indictments from a single hurricane season, Justice Department officials said. Separately, Red Cross officials say they are investigating 7,100 cases of possible fraud.

Congressional investigators, meanwhile, have referred another 7,000 cases of possible fraud to prosecutors, including more than 1,000 prison inmates who collected more than $12 million in federal aid, much of it in the form of rental assistance.

Investigators also turned up one individual who had received 26 federal disaster relief payments totaling $139,000, using 13 Social Security numbers, all based on claims of damages for bogus addresses.

Thousands more people may be charged before the five-year statute of limitations on most of these crimes expires, investigators said.

There are bigger cases of government waste or fraud in United States history. The Treasury Department, for example, estimated in 2005 that Americans in a single year had improperly been granted perhaps $9 billion in unjustified claims under the Earned-Income Tax Credit. The Department of Health and Human Services in 2001 estimated that nearly $12 billion in Medicare benefit payments in the previous year had been based on improper or fraudulent complaints.

Auditors examining spending in Iraq also have documented hundreds of millions in questionable spending or abuse. But Mr. Kutz of the accountability office said that in all of his investigative work, he had never encountered the range of abuses he has seen with Hurricane Katrina.

R. David Paulison, the new FEMA director, said in an interview on Friday that much work had already been done to prevent such widespread fraud, including automated checks to confirm applicants' identities.

"We will be able to tell who you are, if you live where you said you do," Mr. Paulison said.

But Senator Collins said she had heard such promises before, including after Hurricane Frances in 2004 in which FEMA gave out millions of dollars in aid to Miami-Dade County residents, even though there was little damage.

Mr. Kutz said he too was not convinced that the agency was ready.

"I still don't think they fully understand the depth of the problem," he said.


Not suprising to find plenty of waste in government spending. I don't know whose idea it was to hand out these $2000 debit cards, but its great to see our tax dollars buying cigarettes and beer. :roll:
 
I posted this a couple of weeks ago when they were admitting to 1.4Billion. I see it is topping out at 2 billion now and I dont expect it to stop. Probably top 3 billion when they finally figure it out.

Oh, dont forget strippers and trips to Puerto Rico on our tax bill.

 
Originally posted by: zendari
Not suprising to find plenty of waste in government spending. I don't know whose idea it was to hand out these $2000 debit cards, but its great to see our tax dollars buying cigarettes and beer. :roll:
Blame FEMA. They did it. I'd wager, however that it was decided by the administration who was flailing around trying to look like they were helping the Katrina victims.
 
How is this really news and why should believe that liberal rag? I wonder why FEMA was so bad during Katerina compared to the 90s?

The Budget Cuts Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) ? The budget cuts funding for FEMA's disaster relief program $258 million (16 percent) below the level needed to maintain current services.

http://www.house.gov/budget_democrats/pres_budgets/fy2002/april_short_doc.htm

But in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, FEMA lost its Cabinet-level status as it was folded into the giant new Department of Homeland Security. And in recent years it has suffered budget cuts, the elimination or reduction of key programs and an exodus of experienced staffers.[

The agency's core budget, which includes disaster preparedness and mitigation, has been cut each year since it was absorbed by the Homeland Security Department in 2003. Depending on what the final numbers end up being for next fiscal year, the cuts will have been between about 2% and 18%.

The agency's staff has been reduced by 500 positions to 4,735. Among the results, FEMA has had to cut one of its three emergency management teams, which are charged with overseeing relief efforts in a disaster. Where it once had "red," "white" and "blue" teams, it now has only red and white.

Three out of every four dollars the agency provides in local preparedness and first-responder grants go to terrorism-related activities, even though a recent Government Accountability Office report quotes local officials as saying what they really need is money to prepare for natural disasters and accidents.

"They've taken emergency management away from the emergency managers," complained Morrie Goodman, who was FEMA's chief spokesman during the Clinton administration. "These operations are being run by people who are amateurs at what they are doing."

Richard W. Krimm, a former senior FEMA official for several administrations, agreed. "It was a terrible mistake to take disaster response and recovery ? and disaster preparedness and mitigation, and put them in Homeland Security," he said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-fema5sep05,1,3244961.story
 
Originally posted by: Todd33
How is this really news and why should believe that liberal rag? I wonder why FEMA was so bad during Katerina compared to the 90s?

The Budget Cuts Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) ? The budget cuts funding for FEMA's disaster relief program $258 million (16 percent) below the level needed to maintain current services.

http://www.house.gov/budget_democrats/pres_budgets/fy2002/april_short_doc.htm

But in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, FEMA lost its Cabinet-level status as it was folded into the giant new Department of Homeland Security. And in recent years it has suffered budget cuts, the elimination or reduction of key programs and an exodus of experienced staffers.[

The agency's core budget, which includes disaster preparedness and mitigation, has been cut each year since it was absorbed by the Homeland Security Department in 2003. Depending on what the final numbers end up being for next fiscal year, the cuts will have been between about 2% and 18%.

The agency's staff has been reduced by 500 positions to 4,735. Among the results, FEMA has had to cut one of its three emergency management teams, which are charged with overseeing relief efforts in a disaster. Where it once had "red," "white" and "blue" teams, it now has only red and white.

Three out of every four dollars the agency provides in local preparedness and first-responder grants go to terrorism-related activities, even though a recent Government Accountability Office report quotes local officials as saying what they really need is money to prepare for natural disasters and accidents.

"They've taken emergency management away from the emergency managers," complained Morrie Goodman, who was FEMA's chief spokesman during the Clinton administration. "These operations are being run by people who are amateurs at what they are doing."

Richard W. Krimm, a former senior FEMA official for several administrations, agreed. "It was a terrible mistake to take disaster response and recovery ? and disaster preparedness and mitigation, and put them in Homeland Security," he said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-fema5sep05,1,3244961.story


Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!
 
The biggest underlying issue with the FEMA's relief program, hell any program, is that they would have been slammed much harder if they didn't allocate enough money for ice, modile homes, relief, etc. In fact, at the very onset all you ever heard on the news were folks who didn't get the money fast enough or who complained that they needed more. It's a lose/lose scenario.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!

And if FEMA was run by competent people and fully funded, how much better would they do? I guess we will never know. It is the conservative mantra that government agencies are wasteful and do a poor job and then they stack the deck to prove as much. Should we defund DHS and the military and load them with political appointees and see what happens?

You can't blame Clinton for this one, he had FEMA a well oiled machine...
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!
You sound like Condi trying to explain that no one could have ever predicted terrorists using aircraft as weapons. Moreover, you'd have to bury your head in the sand for the past 5+ years to have missed the very obvious warnings that New Orleans was a ticking timebomb. Hell, FEMA knew it, they'd reported on it as one of the likeliest natural disasters.

Given how likely a levee failure in N.O. was predicted to be, you don't think FEMA could have prepared for that event?
 
Originally posted by: Todd33
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!

And if FEMA was run by competent people and fully funded, how much better would they do? I guess we will never know. It is the conservative mantra that government agencies are wasteful and do a poor job and then they stack the deck to prove as much. Should we defund DHS and the military and load them with political appointees and see what happens?

You can't blame Clinton for this one, he had FEMA a well oiled machine...

Do you honestly believe if FEMA had those 500 employee's back none of this could have happened? That is called wishful thinking.

The simple fact is govt is wasteful, inefficient, and in the end doesnt care. And here is a shocker for you. If this level of disaster happened under any other presidents watch I bet you the same thing would have happened.

I would rahter lose 2 billion to AMERICANS IN THE USA than to IRAQ AND HALIBURTON AND BLACKWATER ET AL

I am thinking there should be a "Godwins" law that applies to people who cant respond with anything other than the same tired old argument relating everything to Iraq and Haliburton.
 
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!
You sound like Condi trying to explain that no one could have ever predicted terrorists using aircraft as weapons. Moreover, you'd have to bury your head in the sand for the past 5+ years to have missed the very obvious warnings that New Orleans was a ticking timebomb. Hell, FEMA knew it, they'd reported on it as one of the likeliest natural disasters.

Given how likely a levee failure in N.O. was predicted to be, you don't think FEMA could have prepared for that event?


New Orleans has been a ticking time bomb for decades as it sits "under" the sea.
Do you think New Orleans was the only site of this disaster? Try about 90,000 square miles. Look at the geography of the country. Please note the size of MN, it is 86,000 square miles.

I dont think anybody could have envisioned or properaly planned for a disaster that size.
Only in a word full of wishful thinking could it happen, and work.

But that is besides the point of this article which is, unsurprising fraud and skimming when it comes to a govt run program.


 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!
You sound like Condi trying to explain that no one could have ever predicted terrorists using aircraft as weapons. Moreover, you'd have to bury your head in the sand for the past 5+ years to have missed the very obvious warnings that New Orleans was a ticking timebomb. Hell, FEMA knew it, they'd reported on it as one of the likeliest natural disasters.

Given how likely a levee failure in N.O. was predicted to be, you don't think FEMA could have prepared for that event?


New Orleans has been a ticking time bomb for decades as it sits "under" the sea.
Do you think New Orleans was the only site of this disaster? Try about 90,000 square miles. Look at the geography of the country. Please note the size of MN, it is 86,000 square miles.

I dont think anybody could have envisioned or properaly planned for a disaster that size.
Only in a word full of wishful thinking could it happen, and work.

But that is besides the point of this article which is, unsurprising fraud and skimming when it comes to a govt run program.

I realize the scope of the magnitude, I was simply using "N.O." as short-hand for the region. In any event, the scope of the damage was modeled before-hand. The levee weaknesses were well known. And it's not like Cat 4 and Cat 5 storms haven't happened before and thus we were unaware of the potential damage from one. Given how glaringly obvious all of this was before Katrina, FEMA could have very well planned for such an event. If the political will were there, they would have.

Unfortunately for FEMA and its effectiveness, the GOP view it as an entitlement program. Well, they've certainly managed to turn it into exactly that. Handing out $2,000 debit cards? WTF? If this is the GOP version of FEMA, can I please have the old version?

You know, the one that could respond to emergencies with a degree of competence?
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
The simple fact is govt is wasteful, inefficient, and in the end doesnt care. And here is a shocker for you. If this level of disaster happened under any other presidents watch I bet you the same thing would have happened.

So all the troops in Iraq are inefficient and don't care? The government is a pretty big entity and you are generalizing to the point of looking dumb. I suggest you read up on FEMA before you slander it with right wing talking points. Many many dedicated competent people left FEMA after 9/11 and the budget was slashed year after year. I never said Katrina would have been handled perfectly, but it could have been handled better if the money and people were there. But since you are an eternal apologist and master deflector this discussion is useless.

Fontline had a good special on Katrina and it should be easy to find, maybe start there.
 
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Given how glaringly obvious all of this was before Katrina, FEMA could have very well planned for such an event. If the political will were there, they would have.

They did have a plan, it was called Hurricane Pam. The report was left unfinished. Talk about embarrassing.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=13051

A draft report was published in August 2004 on how a recovery effort would have been implemented (Note: This is a pdf file; Adobe Acrobat required). The 121-page report shows that key planning decisions were not yet made: the issue of medical care for hurricane victims wasn't finalized, communications were not addressed at all, and important transportation decisions were left "to be determined."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/storm/etc/links.html



 
Originally posted by: Todd33
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!

And if FEMA was run by competent people and fully funded, how much better would they do? I guess we will never know. It is the conservative mantra that government agencies are wasteful and do a poor job and then they stack the deck to prove as much. Should we defund DHS and the military and load them with political appointees and see what happens?

You can't blame Clinton for this one, he had FEMA a well oiled machine...

Oh, Really,

and really,

and really
 

Are those blogs supposed to prove something? Anti-Clinton blogs != journalism.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/storm/etc/femahist.html

1979

Pressed by state governors, President Jimmy Carter creates the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).

1980s

During this decade, FEMA is not really tested by a major disaster and under Presidents Reagan and Bush, it endures scandal and becomes known as a sort of backwater and a parking lot for political appointees.
1992 - Hurricane Andrew

This Category 5 hurricane -- the first in 23 years -- strikes southern Florida south of Miami. Thousands are stranded without food and water. Overwhelmed local emergency managers wait and wait for FEMA. It takes five days for federal troops to arrive.

1993

Recognizing the political value in reforming FEMA, the new Clinton administration appoints James Lee Witt director. He is the first in the agency's history with direct experience in emergency management.

1993- 2000

During Witt's tenure, both Democrats and Republicans credit him with reforming FEMA by lessening the bureaucracy, emphasizing the input of the agency's professional staff and focusing on working with communities to prepare for disasters. Charged with coordinating 22 different federal agencies as part of the Federal Response Plan to disasters, FEMA is elevated to a Cabinet-level status in 1996 by President Clinton.

2001

Witt leaves FEMA when George W. Bush becomes president, and Bush appoints his former campaign director, Joe Allbaugh, to succeed Witt. In keeping with the Bush budget-cutting agenda, Allbaugh sets out to trim FEMA. He also wants to focus the agency: Allbaugh identifies the three most likely disasters facing the country -- an earthquake in Californa, a hurricane hitting New Orleans and a terrorist attack in New York.

2003

In March 2003, President Bush creates the Department of Homeland Security in response to 9/11. It is the largest reorganization of government in 40 years, and as part of the process, FEMA is downgraded from an independent agency to a sub-department of Homeland Security. Morale plummets. Scores of lifelong employees leave. Allbaugh leaves for the private sector and Michael Brown, FEMA counsel, takes over.
2003 - November 2005

During its integration into the Department of Homeland Security, [see chart] FEMA loses money to other agencies. Director Brown protests but says "terrorism was the issue du jour."

Despite the cutbacks, however, Brown has some planning under his belt for facing Hurricane Katrina. A year before Katrina, FEMA sponsored a disaster planning exercise called "Hurricane Pam". Its scenario: a devastating hurricane hitting New Orleans, with more than 100,000 people left behind in the city.

However, the "Pam" exercise is not completed.
The Bush administration cuts funding for it. A 121-page draft report shows key planning decisions were not yet made: the issue of medical care for hurricane victims wasn't finalized, communications were not addressed at all, and important transportation decisions were left "to be determined."

Meanwhile, plans are drawn up to further reduce FEMA. In June 2005, Director Brown writes a memo to a top official at Homeland Security that expresses "serious concerns about the direction this is taking emergency management in this nation. ?The proposed organizational structure is doomed to fail. ?"

When Hurricane Katrina devastates the Gulf Coast on Aug. 29, 2005 and government at all levels takes days to help the stranded, suffering victims, no one receives more criticism than FEMA's director. A short time later, Michael Brown is removed from command of the crisis by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and subsequently resigns.

On Oct. 18, 2005, President Bush signs a Homeland Security appropriations bill that takes responsibility for preparedness out of FEMA
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
I am thinking there should be a "Godwins" law that applies to people who cant respond with anything other than the same tired old argument relating everything to Iraq and Haliburton.

Americans are still dying in Iraq and the money still flows into that blackhole... yet it's a 'tired old argument'? 😱


 
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Originally posted by: Genx87
I am thinking there should be a "Godwins" law that applies to people who cant respond with anything other than the same tired old argument relating everything to Iraq and Haliburton.

Americans are still dying in Iraq and the money still flows into that blackhole... yet it's a 'tired old argument'? 😱

Didn't you get the "Mission Accomplished" memo?
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!
You sound like Condi trying to explain that no one could have ever predicted terrorists using aircraft as weapons. Moreover, you'd have to bury your head in the sand for the past 5+ years to have missed the very obvious warnings that New Orleans was a ticking timebomb. Hell, FEMA knew it, they'd reported on it as one of the likeliest natural disasters.

Given how likely a levee failure in N.O. was predicted to be, you don't think FEMA could have prepared for that event?


New Orleans has been a ticking time bomb for decades as it sits "under" the sea.
Do you think New Orleans was the only site of this disaster? Try about 90,000 square miles. Look at the geography of the country. Please note the size of MN, it is 86,000 square miles.


I dont think anybody could have envisioned or properaly planned for a disaster that size.
Only in a word full of wishful thinking could it happen, and work.

But that is besides the point of this article which is, unsurprising fraud and skimming when it comes to a govt run program.

You are wrong on that one. Disaster planning is something every town has (or is supposed) to do. In fact, it isn't even THAT hard to do. The threats are known. If I was in charge of the town in Wisconsin that I live in, there would be three worries.

1) Tornados - Isolated incidents. Make sure that the local emergency response crews know what to do. Know how fast the surrounding towns can have their crews here, how large they are, etc.

2) Extremely low temeratures - Widespread, but not deadly in itself. You need to worry more about a loss of power than anything else. Make sure there are programs to check on the elderly and such. Have contact with all the utilities (and backup contact methods, as ice will bring down communication lines). Have contacts with the surrounding counties and state governments.

3) Flooding - Not very likely, but still possible. Have contacts with the surrounding county and state governments. Know where all the emergency response units in the region are. Know the contact information for the on-call National Guard units. Know the contact information for all other possible response units. Have likely flood zones mapped. Have evac routes and shelters planned.

That is simplifying it a bit, but it really isn't an impossible tast at all. A city the size of say NO would have at least one person whose entire job was this.
 
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Genx87
Or it could be that Katrina was x amount bigger than anything we have ever seen?

I know, an area the size of MN is devastated, we see that every year!
You sound like Condi trying to explain that no one could have ever predicted terrorists using aircraft as weapons. Moreover, you'd have to bury your head in the sand for the past 5+ years to have missed the very obvious warnings that New Orleans was a ticking timebomb. Hell, FEMA knew it, they'd reported on it as one of the likeliest natural disasters.

Given how likely a levee failure in N.O. was predicted to be, you don't think FEMA could have prepared for that event?


New Orleans has been a ticking time bomb for decades as it sits "under" the sea.
Do you think New Orleans was the only site of this disaster? Try about 90,000 square miles. Look at the geography of the country. Please note the size of MN, it is 86,000 square miles.


I dont think anybody could have envisioned or properaly planned for a disaster that size.
Only in a word full of wishful thinking could it happen, and work.

But that is besides the point of this article which is, unsurprising fraud and skimming when it comes to a govt run program.

You are wrong on that one. Disaster planning is something every town has (or is supposed) to do. In fact, it isn't even THAT hard to do. The threats are known. If I was in charge of the town in Wisconsin that I live in, there would be three worries.

1) Tornados - Isolated incidents. Make sure that the local emergency response crews know what to do. Know how fast the surrounding towns can have their crews here, how large they are, etc.

2) Extremely low temeratures - Widespread, but not deadly in itself. You need to worry more about a loss of power than anything else. Make sure there are programs to check on the elderly and such. Have contact with all the utilities (and backup contact methods, as ice will bring down communication lines). Have contacts with the surrounding counties and state governments.

3) Flooding - Not very likely, but still possible. Have contacts with the surrounding county and state governments. Know where all the emergency response units in the region are. Know the contact information for the on-call National Guard units. Know the contact information for all other possible response units. Have likely flood zones mapped. Have evac routes and shelters planned.

That is simplifying it a bit, but it really isn't an impossible tast at all. A city the size of say NO would have at least one person whose entire job was this.

The disaster area was 90,000 square miles, repeat this several times in your head.
MN, the state to the west of you is 86,000 square miles.

New Orleans was a small area of the devastation. If NO was the only place hit I'd have more contempt for the efforts of the govt. But the area is massive, bigger than anything we have ever dealt with, and I dont think anybody envisioned an area that large having that much destruction. Nor if we did, could realistically expect to handle it in the timely fashion people sitting at their computer thousands of miles away think they should have.

Again this is besides the poiint of this thread which is govt waste when dolling out billions to people with no checks and balances. A completely different issue at hand.


 
Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge
Originally posted by: Genx87
I am thinking there should be a "Godwins" law that applies to people who cant respond with anything other than the same tired old argument relating everything to Iraq and Haliburton.

Americans are still dying in Iraq and the money still flows into that blackhole... yet it's a 'tired old argument'? 😱

Yes, when it comes to talking about a Hurricane in the United States.

 
Originally posted by: zendari
Not suprising to find plenty of waste in government spending. I don't know whose idea it was to hand out these $2000 debit cards, but its great to see our tax dollars buying cigarettes and beer. :roll:

Topic Title: 'Breathtaking' Waste and Fraud in Hurricane Aid

Yes is was "breathtaking".

I nearly died from Katrina and I did not get one penny.

I was denied and they refused to give a reason.

I'm sure if I changed my name to Leroy Smith or Williams I would 've gotten multiple cards.
 
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