BREAKING: Parts of healthcare law ruled unconstitutional

[ElFenix]

We are forced to pay social security and we are forced to pay for medicare. I don't see how this would be any different with regards to constitutionality, although in this case the government wouldn't be providing the service but it is hoping to stem free-loaders who would cost money with ER visits/etc anyways. This is the same reason that social security and medicare aren't optional.

social security is a tax and clearly a tax under the general welfare clause.

this, congress declared that it's a penalty and not a tax. they changed the statute from 'tax' to 'penalty.' the statute in other provisions has other 'taxes,' so congress is clearly demonstrating that it can tell the difference between a 'tax' and a 'penalty.'

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

You still haven't answered the question. Apparently, "just following orders" works fine for you.

It might be best to OD a patient on Morphine rather than let nature take it's course, use an experimental or off-label treatment on a patient, or treat a patient with a procedure that their insurance won't approve. In all those scenarios the doctors more often than not "just follow orders." It's already the status quo.

 

[Darwin333]

Separate issue. I don't have a mortgage, so every year I get a tax penalty for not having one. I still pay all my taxes.

Could you please provide me with the internal revenue code that penalizes you for not having a mortgage? I am aware of a mortgage deduction, or a tax benefit, but I am not aware of a penalty.

 

[piasabird]

Can we impeach Pelosi for this?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Could you please provide me with the internal revenue code that penalizes you for not having a mortgage? I am aware of a mortgage deduction, or a tax benefit, but I am not aware of a penalty.

My taxes are higher because than they would be if I had a mortgage. My higher taxes subsidize the tax deduction for those that do. You don't need tax code to see that's a penalty, you just need a dictionary.

 

[PokerGuy]

against their own self interests.

Funny, here I was thinking that I would be the one deciding what is in my self interest. Oh no, the government certainly knows better

 

[theeedude]

Better a contempt for a corrupt and tyrannical government than a hypocritical contempt for the wellbeing of American citizens.

The government we have is result of our elections. Are you saying Americans voted for corruption and tyranny and not their own well being?

 

[piasabird]

I have seen some state laws that require you to get a property tax receipt before you can get a driver's License. This use to be the case when I lived down at Ft Leonard Wood, MO (Pulaski County). This can be perceived as a property ownership penalty. I dont know if this happens all over Missouri or not. The law could have been changed by now. The worst part is that you had to have some written ok even if you did not own property in Missouri.

I dont see the mortgage deductions as any sort of penaly for not owning a home. It is just an incentive for home owners to be able to afford a home, or to partially offset the price.

There are many tax laws similar to this that give preferential treatment to different groups of people. This often referred to as class warfare. Here are some examples.

Single parents lower tax rate. (Discriminates against married people)
Child care credits (Discriminate against single people)

I am sure you can think of some more.

I am for eliminating all of these and haveing one tax rate for all with no deductions, credits, or programs (Also including Business credits and deductions).

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Funny, here I was thinking that I would be the one deciding what is in my self interest. Oh no, the government certainly knows better

It's a sad commentary on the state of our country that, apparently in certain cases, yes it does.

 

[jackstar7]

I'm heartened to see so many people willing to donate out of their own pockets to the E.R.s that are servicing the uninsured and impoverished of our society. Your desire to see this burden not be something shared by everyone, but rather left for you to heft on your powerful shoulders is truly an inspiration. Thank you all.

 

[Darwin333]

I was also thinking that. If this makes it to the SC and they cut it down then whats to stop a state from saying "people can not be forced into a retirement plan...".

Because it isn't a retirement plan, it is a tax. Thats it, just a tax. They don't owe you shit and if they decided to end the programs today they would not have to return a single penny to you.

 

[theeedude]

You still haven't answered the question. Apparently, "just following orders" works fine for you.

Yes, just following the laws voted for by the people's democratically elected representatives works fine for me. We are a nation of laws, if that's a problem for you, move.

 

[shortylickens]

Most health problems have zero to do with life and death consequences, so drop the drama queen act.

And the really funny thing about all this BS is in no way shape or form does it protect anyone's life or improve the quality of American health care. All it does is penalize people monetarily for not being able to afford something they might not be able to get regardless if they had the money. Whether its taxes or a fee for individuals, all Obama is going to do is pile more money on a serious economic problem, which is hideously overpriced health care.

When I heard he was going to give health care to every American I thought he was going to be building hospitals and sending people through medical school. I didnt think he'd be handing more money over to the organizations that are already getting way too fucking much anyway.

 

[PeshakJang]

I'm heartened to see so many people willing to donate out of their own pockets to the E.R.s that are servicing the uninsured and impoverished of our society. Your desire to see this burden not be something shared by everyone, but rather left for you to heft on your powerful shoulders is truly an inspiration. Thank you all.

Yep... that's what it is. People are sick, so we should violate the constitution to force people into throwing their money at the problem, regardless of how inefficient, ill-conceived, or convoluted the plan may be.

When intellect fails, play on emotions. Good job sport.

 

[ProfJohn]

I keep reading from other sources that in the rush ram the bill through the dems forgot to decouple parts of the bill and therefore if any part of it is unconstitutional, the entire thing is. Obama signing it breaks his oath of office.

Get a life dude, seriously... you are an embarrassment to the rest of right wingers.

 

[Darwin333]

My taxes are higher because than they would be if I had a mortgage. My higher taxes subsidize the tax deduction for those that do. You don't need tax code to see that's a penalty, you just need a dictionary.

So your argument is that all tax deductions and benefits are "penalties"? Sorry bud but the IRS disagrees with you. Take it up with them.

 

[CLite]

Because it isn't a retirement plan, it is a tax. Thats it, just a tax. They don't owe you shit and if they decided to end the programs today they would not have to return a single penny to you.

The payout is covering the medical expenses of the uninsured. This bill seeks to cover that unfunded liability.

It doesn't really seem like some egregious unconstitutional act as compared to existing legislation.

 

[jackstar7]

Yep... that's what it is. People are sick, so we should violate the constitution to force people into throwing their money at the problem, regardless of how inefficient, ill-conceived, or convoluted the plan may be.

When intellect fails, play on emotions. Good job sport.

I'm applauding the people ready to take on this problem directly. I'm not sure what it is that you're arguing.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Get a life dude, seriously... you are an embarrassment to the rest of right wingers.

:thumbsup:

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

So your argument is that all tax deductions and benefits are "penalties"? Sorry bud but the IRS disagrees with you. Take it up with them.

Well since you brought it up, surely you can provide me with the internal revenue code that explicitly states that then, right? That a benefit one can't take advantage of is somehow not, for all practical purposes, a penalty?

 

[Munky]

Just another right wing judicial activist Bush appointee in Virginia. Nothing to see here, move along.

As opposed to the left wing liberal douches you love so much...

 

[jhbball]

As opposed to the left wing liberal douches you love so much...

No you. Moron.

 

[Munky]

The government we have is result of our elections. Are you saying Americans voted for corruption and tyranny and not their own well being?

Yes, in case you missed TBTF, QE 1&2, The war on terror, ... Many americans voted for "hopey-changey" campaign speeches and partisan politics, as opposed to their own well being.

 

[Munky]

No you. Moron.

Quoted for posterity

 

[rudeguy]

No you. Moron.

how about giving some input instead of just launching a personal attack?

Democrats were jizzing their pants when the activist judge in Cali overruled what millions of people voted for. This is simply a judge following the constitution, not rewriting it like the Democrats love to do.