I shudder to think of the children caught in the crossfire...but the Palestinians elected these savages, and we all knew then that no good could come of it. I wish that not a single civilian would be killed, but on the other hand, if this chemical warhead stuff is true, then I want Israel to break Hamas for good and end this bullsh*t.
What I don't understand is that if Hamas is in control of the government of Palestine and they carry out terror attacks/raids on either Israeli citizens or Israeli soldiers then how is it not an open act of war? Israel should siimply declare war on Palestine and in a week there will be NO more Palestine.
America should stay out of this and keep its mouth shut. We need to stay out of the middle east for a while and let them do what they want. A person I talked to a few months ago said that we should build a wall around the mideast and throw in guns and let them sort each other out. That was harsh in my opinion but he was basically saying that these people have been fighting for many years and it is not our problem. Indirect problem, maybe, but not direct. We have lots of indirect problems. I support Israel and I support the Palestinian people who have suffered tremendously, but America cannot help bring peace to both of these sides. Instead, if America involves itself, it will create animosity between itself and either the Israelis or the Palestinians, or both. We tried to bring both sides together many times and each time, we ended up looking bad while they both still fought each other. I really wish there was peace in the mideast and the world as a whole. There can be peace if only these two sides decide on it on their own. No outside force will do anything.
Israel did not "destroy the peace process". The Palestinians did by taking the soldier, and now a settler, hostage. And please don't fool yourself about the other Palestinian militants; they've never intended to make peace with Israel, and they still don't.
I think we can all agree that kidnapping, and then killing, Israeli soldiers and civilians was a very stupid thing to do on the Palenstinians part. But, I don't think Israel should escalate this into a war. Although, "war" is a pretty strong term to describe something that would only last a few months, at most. Palenstine could not win a fight agains Israel, period. Israel has the backing of the U.S. Although, IMO, this is and always has been a very stupid thing for us to do. Israel has made a lot of enemies in the ME, which is definitely not good for our foreign relations.
So here's to hoping this doesn't get much further.
So here's to hoping this doesn't get much further.
JEDIYoda
Lifer
- Jul 13, 2005
- 33,981
- 3,318
- 126
so what would you have the United States do...allow Israel to be wiped off the map?
In all seriousness you can`t be telling me that the United states should stand back and allow a race to be decimated?
Sure we all know it doesn`t matter if the whole middle east ganged up all at once on Israel they would still win now...
But there was a rimw in the not to distant past that we provided everything that Israel needed.
Youv`e heard the saying I`m sure --
If the palestinians were to dis-armthere would be peace in the middle east.
If the Israeli`s were to dis-arm within weeks there would be no Israel!
This is blowing up much bigger than I had envisioned.
Hope this doesnt spill over into more countries in the ME.
Hope this doesnt spill over into more countries in the ME.
It's funny how we keep trying to convince ourselves that the enemy is only a small portion of the population over there. It's a small portion that is nuts enough to strap on a bang belt, but they enjoy very broad support. Various polls put support for suicide bombers and acts of terrorism at better than 60% on the Arab street.
It's not a small cabal of criminals, it's a whole people stuck in a medieval mindset and dreaming of a return to Pan-Arab greatness. They still tell stories about the defeat of Guy of Lusignon by Saladin. They still tell stories about Richard III. They probably tell stories of the sixth and seventh centuries when Islam raped and pillaged its way across southern Europe, but we've forgotten that part, and the part about the tide only being turned back at the gates of Vienna five centuries later. But we're the mean, old crusaders.
I don't know if this conflict has real potential to widen, or not. The Syrians and Egyptians probably aren't going to rush to the aid of the Palestinians, because they know they would get their asses handed to them, and probably lose territory in the process. But the populations of those countries... who knows what will happen? The regimes don't reflect the will of the people, and Islamic fundamentalists are either brutally suppressed or bought off because they are a huge threat to the existence of the ruling families.
Regardless of what happens, any prospect of our evangelizing our way to a peaceful, democratic mideast is gone, if it ever existed. I'd like to see the West gang up and colonize the whole region for another hundred years. Worked in India, and a lot of other places. But right now the U.S. doesn't have the stomach for even a few thousand combat deaths in a little brushfire war in Iraq. We're technologically rich, but low on backbone.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
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months?! lol.. I give it two weeks tops before Israel has the entire Palestinian populace under lock and key, or in the ground. Things are about to get realllll ugly for the Palestinians, and nobody can deny that they've brought it on themselves.
my thoughts and prayers are with the Israeli soldiers tonight. It's time for them to go to work!
Funny, that's basically the same thing that was said about Iraq. Terrorists don't just go *POOF* and vanish into thin air when a military power waves its war flag. They endure, always have and always will. And putting a country under "lock and key", as you put it, is not a way to get rid of them.
And in response to JediYODA: Yes, that's pretty much exactly what I'd do. What Hamas did was wrong. I'm not going to argue with you there. But Israel doesn't exactly epitomize peace and democracy either.
Oh? I'd say in that region they are a shining beacon of peace and democracy. I'd be interested to know what you think they have done, with specifics, to deserve being apportioned a share of blame for the way things are over there. They've given land, they've watched thousands of innocent men, women, and children killed by murderers, and the vast majority of the time have taken no action whatever in retaliation. When they have retaliated they have always suffered for it internationally, mostly because certain members of the chattering classes in the U.S. and Europe have their heads firmly implanted in the anal area.
The bottom line is this: if Arab fanatics stopped attacking Israel tomorrow and recognized its right to exist, the violence would be over for good. It isn't Israel that keeps upping the ante. The current situation is _exactly_ what the radical wing of Hamas wants. In the past that alone has been enough reason to not play along. But at some point, as the deaths mount, you have to give them what they want, and illustrate that it may be more than they bargained for. I suspect that will now happen.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
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The Isreali army, and the nation as a whole, are unlike any other in the world. They can, and will, defeat whomever they need to, using whatever means necessary. They wont let the politics from China, Russia, UN, EU, US, or any other factor get in their way... trust me.
I'm actually jealous of their abilities to fight terror with a massive balls-to-the-wall response. This may just be the final straw for them; and if that's the case, they're not going to stop until every militant is in the ground.
That is one of the best ways to skin a terrorist cat. I just wish that our military were allowed to do the same! Take the political handcuffs off, and we too could bury the terrorists we're facing every day... every last fvcking one of them. (ie, allow us to enter Pakistan, Iran, or anywhere else they are currently allowed to run and hide! then, once we're there, let us bury them all!)
I hope Israel kills every last gun-toting jerk they find in Gaza! It's truly sad that it must come to that, but enough is enough!
I won't deny that, for a middle-eastern country, Israel has done a good job of keeping the peace. I guess my phrasing was a little harsh in my last post, which I apologize for. I know you served in the Israeli military, and I highly respect your opinion on the matter. So let me try again.
It seems to me, from what I've read about the region, that Israel has been known to abuse its power in the area due to the fact that nobody else there can touch them. From my point of view, which, btw, I am willing to change, ever since Israel was created after WW2 it's just been a cause of trouble. Not so much itself, but just the prescence it has there. Of course, I don't think there will ever be peace in that area, since everybody wants the land for themselves.
I just don't think that striking militarily (is that even a word?) is the best option for them. But again, on the flip side, neither is sitting down and having a cup of tea with Hamas.
It seems to me, from what I've read about the region, that Israel has been known to abuse its power in the area due to the fact that nobody else there can touch them. From my point of view, which, btw, I am willing to change, ever since Israel was created after WW2 it's just been a cause of trouble. Not so much itself, but just the prescence it has there. Of course, I don't think there will ever be peace in that area, since everybody wants the land for themselves.
I just don't think that striking militarily (is that even a word?) is the best option for them. But again, on the flip side, neither is sitting down and having a cup of tea with Hamas.
Like with previous kipnappings of soldiers the abducted soldier will most likely 'accidently' die during his rescue too. Last thing they want is an ex-abductee talking in a possitive way about his treatment by the 'terrorists'.
Last thing the Israeli government needs is for soldiers or the general population to view the other side as human, because that would make it harder to justify the hundreds of women and children who are locked up without trial or even formal charges.
Last thing the Israeli government needs is for soldiers or the general population to view the other side as human, because that would make it harder to justify the hundreds of women and children who are locked up without trial or even formal charges.
5150Joker
Diamond Member
I hope it does, there needs to be an epic fight to finally settle this once and for all. Maybe all the tinpot dictators will finally get overthrown as a result of this. Anyway, Hamas are idiots for taking hostages and the Pals are idiots for electing them; At the very least Hamas should've recognized Israel and begun a transition to become a legitimate organization..too bad for them because they had plenty of chances at reconcilliation.
There are 6 million Palestinians (if I remember correctly) in the occupied territories...and they all claim allegiance to either Fatah, Hamas, or similar - in much the same way Americans are either Republicans or Democrats.
You start digging those 6 million graves, I'll start building the "showers"...OK? :disgust:
Future Shock
I knew I shouldn't have voted for Kadima. Middle Eastern affairs can not and will never be handled properly with even the slightest spirit of defeatism. Only force will prevail, and where force is not enough - more force is needed.
Too bad Israel is nothing without United States subsidized military and economic goods.
But at least they can use the billions of dollars far better than Haliburton in Iraq.
But at least they can use the billions of dollars far better than Haliburton in Iraq.
rational? how can you even put that word with plaestinians in the same sentece?
they didn't think of anything when the kiddnaped the kid. they had the chance and they probablly killed him on site.
although the official reason for israel's entrance into the Gaza Strip is to rescue the solder, it's not the main reason. the chance of the solder still being alive is close to none. and due to the crowded conditions of the Gaza strip, israel can't exactly plan a mission to rescue him. i don't even know whether israel even know where the solder is.
the main reason for israel's entrance into the Gaza strip, is to stop the "qasam" rockets that are being fired at S'derot (a city close to the gaza strip).
BTW, since israel blew up the power plant in gaza and the fact the the power plant was insured by an american government agency, and due to the fact that the government is denying any money to the Hamas, it could be a long time until it is repaired. That means that the palestinians will suffer. why did israel do this? because, it is sad, but if the palestinians were to give the solder back alive without israel realsing any prisoners, 90% of the palestinians would see those as traitors. this was done to hopefully create a situation where the people are misrable and so they'll pressure their leaders to give back the solder and to stop this.
they didn't think of anything when the kiddnaped the kid. they had the chance and they probablly killed him on site.
although the official reason for israel's entrance into the Gaza Strip is to rescue the solder, it's not the main reason. the chance of the solder still being alive is close to none. and due to the crowded conditions of the Gaza strip, israel can't exactly plan a mission to rescue him. i don't even know whether israel even know where the solder is.
the main reason for israel's entrance into the Gaza strip, is to stop the "qasam" rockets that are being fired at S'derot (a city close to the gaza strip).
BTW, since israel blew up the power plant in gaza and the fact the the power plant was insured by an american government agency, and due to the fact that the government is denying any money to the Hamas, it could be a long time until it is repaired. That means that the palestinians will suffer. why did israel do this? because, it is sad, but if the palestinians were to give the solder back alive without israel realsing any prisoners, 90% of the palestinians would see those as traitors. this was done to hopefully create a situation where the people are misrable and so they'll pressure their leaders to give back the solder and to stop this.
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