• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."
  • Community Question: What makes a good motherboard?

BREAKING NEWS -- Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker: Report

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Batmeat

Senior member
Feb 1, 2011
772
35
91
One final point. The ACP isn’t up to date entirely. Ventilators should only be used on those who’s life is threatened, under high flow 100% oxygen. In general they don’t work though because covid dissasociates the porphyrin ring, where the heme group is, which is the part that holds oxygen on the red blood cell. No oxygen on the red blood cell means no delivery to tissue = acidosis and respiratory failure.

sorry if some stuff is spelled wrong. I’m on my cell phone
Not wasting anymore time on this subject. You’re entitled to your OPINION.
Like I said earlier, I posted the facts.
 

Batmeat

Senior member
Feb 1, 2011
772
35
91
This seals your ignorance on the subject for me --- this one statement that you made -- "All the garbage about clinical trials..." --

Have a nice day!!
You obviously didn’t even understand what I said entirely.
Good night. Feel free to bash me as you likely will continue to do. I’m headed to bed.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
14,515
939
126
If he doesn't get a second term, he should be apprehended and arraigned for what is now over 18,000 counts of negligent homicide.

He should be remanded without bail. At end of trial when the jury returns, it should take them approximately 6 months to read the verdicts: "on count 1 of the charges, how do you find . . . . . . On count 18,500, how do you find? . . . "

Then give him his choice of sentences. 99 years in the electric chair, televised, or life in prison with mandatory appearance for one year on MSNBC Lockup: Presidential Cell-Block. They need to determine whether it will violate his rights to put him under Sodium Pentothal for every other episode. This will allow the American public to see how much of his evil malfeasance was due to Ignorance, and how much was owing to duplicitous malevolence.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,266
2,971
126
One final point. The ACP isn’t up to date entirely. Ventilators should only be used on those who’s life is threatened, under high flow 100% oxygen. In general they don’t work though because covid dissasociates the porphyrin ring, where the heme group is, which is the part that holds oxygen on the red blood cell. No oxygen on the red blood cell means no delivery to tissue = acidosis and respiratory failure.

sorry if some stuff is spelled wrong. I’m on my cell phone
Not wasting anymore time on this subject. You’re entitled to your OPINION.
Like I said earlier, I posted the facts.
what you posted was one article that has been debunked ..over and over.....
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,253
2,517
136
If you want clinical applicability look into malaria research with uncoupling of porphyria rings and how covid attacks it. Then look into hospital use in New York with IV plaquenil use.
All the garbage about clinical trials....no clinical study argument is totally irrelevant because plaquenil has already been shown to protect the porphyrin ring, and covid has been shown to attack it. Want me to put it in another way? Viagra was initially a drug for blood pressure and the side effect was errections. Phenergan was not meant or developed for nausea, does a great job treating it though. There are no clinical studies because covid is here now. But for peoples argument sake lets delay treatment do the clinical study (which most clinical studies take years) and let thousands of people die in the meantime. You think covid will go away? You’re wrong. It will be back when flu season starts in 2020 this fall

Nothing I have said or linked is “bullshit” like you mentioned.

lastly, leave Trump out of it. I already said I could care less about the politics regarding him. I’m more interested in helping people live.
I never even mentioned Trump. I never said Covid will "go away," in fact, I think it'll be here for quite some time. Are you creating strawmen/moving the goalposts because of the weakness of your argument?

Also, I never said there's no chance HCQ will be beneficial in some folks with Covid-19, it may. There's just CURRENTLY no high quality data that states it does and to suggest that it does, is intellectually dishonest and potentially dangerous.

You're also conflating the SARS-Cov2 and Covid-19, the former is the virus that leads to the latter which is the disease. Definitions are important here because even though something may have "action" on the virus, does not necessarily mean it ameliorates the disease, and potentially even if it does, it does not imply that it's without risk or adverse effects. (Basic example - say I had Drug A which reduces viral replication of SARS-Cov2 which makes it sound like it would be a great treatment for Covid-19, but unfortunately it also causes 100% mortality. Not a great treatment, is it?)

Your anecdotes regarding sildenafil and phenergan are irrelevant.

I'm not opposed to compassionate use of medications as a princple, but it must be done carefully (HCQ is currently being used in my hospital's ICU right now, we're also using statins which has even less evidence but there's some theoretical possible benefit and MGH has a protocol that some are following).

As usual when folks like yourself make these emotional arguments, you ignore the risks of treatment. HCQ is fairly pro-arrhythmic at baseline, and now introduced into a setting where the most critically ill patients often have other significant arrhythmic risk factors (cardiac disease, electrolyte abnormalities, etc) and we may find HCQ causes more harm than good. We just don't know. But to chant "just use it just use it" is ignorant at best, and dangerous at worst.

One final point. The ACP isn’t up to date entirely. Ventilators should only be used on those who’s life is threatened, under high flow 100% oxygen. In general they don’t work though because covid dissasociates the porphyrin ring, where the heme group is, which is the part that holds oxygen on the red blood cell. No oxygen on the red blood cell means no delivery to tissue = acidosis and respiratory failure.

sorry if some stuff is spelled wrong. I’m on my cell phone
Not wasting anymore time on this subject. You’re entitled to your OPINION.
Like I said earlier, I posted the facts.
Your argument here is entirely worthless and it's ironic that you present it (while claiming your posting facts) without supporting evidence. Would you like to clarify any of your statement? Please note where the ACP suggested ventilator use for folks "who's life is [not] threatened." Please define "life threatened" objectively. High flow 100% oxygen? All supplemental oxygen is "100% oxygen." Do you mean HFNC or a particular liter per minute flow rate? Maybe you're referring to FiO2?

None of this is my opinion, this is all entirely fact. You posted one basic science paper, I've given you the entire Covid resource guide from the ACP which links to all the primary articles. I think it's fairly clear who has the weight of evidence here.

Just curious, what are you credentials? Because it sure seems like you're out of your league here.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
If he doesn't get a second term, he should be apprehended and arraigned for what is now over 18,000 counts of negligent homicide.

He should be remanded without bail. At end of trial when the jury returns, it should take them approximately 6 months to read the verdicts: "on count 1 of the charges, how do you find . . . . . . On count 18,500, how do you find? . . . "

Then give him his choice of sentences. 99 years in the electric chair, televised, or life in prison with mandatory appearance for one year on MSNBC Lockup: Presidential Cell-Block. They need to determine whether it will violate his rights to put him under Sodium Pentothal for every other episode. This will allow the American public to see how much of his evil malfeasance was due to Ignorance, and how much was owing to duplicitous malevolence.
I'm curious, does typing that up give you an erection?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,068
18,808
136
I'm curious, does typing that up give you an erection?
Hey boomerang, your constitutional expertise is needed over in this thread, haha.

 
  • Haha
Reactions: ch33zw1z

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,253
2,517
136
Hey boomerang, your constitutional expertise is needed over in this thread, haha.

lol thanks for that
 
Dec 10, 2005
20,480
1,799
126
Sorry OP but who gives a shit if he has stock in a pharmaceutical company. So do I. Also, it was PROVEN on Feb 28 that plaquenil (hydroxychloroquin) works on Covid-19 HERE

Do your research and don't follow the media. Also, democrats blocked this news from mainstream media if your willing to look.
1) You linked a paper in a pre-print server; it doesn't appear to have undergone any sort of peer review. Pre-prints have their place, but I wouldn't rely on them on their own - you need to read it critically
2) If you read the paper, it's a bioinformatics and in silico modeling paper - it does not support anything that you are claiming
3) You also only linked one paper. If you're going to make sweeping claims about a subject with a single paper, at least link a scientific review, which collates the evidence

With just those points alone, it's laughable that you are telling people to do their own research. Did you get your PhD from Google U?

With regards to this drug that the president is so hyped up on:
1) 1586615192963.png
2) It's extremely unethical to promote the widespread, off-label use of a drug without any sort of proven efficacy in a real clinical trial. Preclinical evidence is nice to jump start development, but see Point 1. And small case studies or poorly controlled trials are not good evidence for widespread use. This drug (and combination) have well known side effects that could be lethal in patients with COVID-19: until their is real evidence of efficacy, I'd say the risks do not outweigh benefits. Let the real clinical trials run, which should read out soon enough, given the numbers of available patients, then we can come back to discussing whether this should be used or not
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,865
9,688
146
1) You linked a paper in a pre-print server; it doesn't appear to have undergone any sort of peer review. Pre-prints have their place, but I wouldn't rely on them on their own - you need to read it critically
2) If you read the paper, it's a bioinformatics and in silico modeling paper - it does not support anything that you are claiming
3) You also only linked one paper. If you're going to make sweeping claims about a subject with a single paper, at least link a scientific review, which collates the evidence

With just those points alone, it's laughable that you are telling people to do their own research. Did you get your PhD from Google U?

With regards to this drug that the president is so hyped up on:
1) View attachment 19472
2) It's extremely unethical to promote the widespread, off-label use of a drug without any sort of proven efficacy in a real clinical trial. Preclinical evidence is nice to jump start development, but see Point 1. And small case studies or poorly controlled trials are not good evidence for widespread use. This drug (and combination) have well known side effects that could be lethal in patients with COVID-19: until their is real evidence of efficacy, I'd say the risks do not outweigh benefits. Let the real clinical trials run, which should read out soon enough, given the numbers of available patients, then we can come back to discussing whether this should be used or not
Ethics are for libtard cucks.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,253
2,517
136
1) You linked a paper in a pre-print server; it doesn't appear to have undergone any sort of peer review. Pre-prints have their place, but I wouldn't rely on them on their own - you need to read it critically
2) If you read the paper, it's a bioinformatics and in silico modeling paper - it does not support anything that you are claiming
3) You also only linked one paper. If you're going to make sweeping claims about a subject with a single paper, at least link a scientific review, which collates the evidence

With just those points alone, it's laughable that you are telling people to do their own research. Did you get your PhD from Google U?

With regards to this drug that the president is so hyped up on:
1) View attachment 19472
2) It's extremely unethical to promote the widespread, off-label use of a drug without any sort of proven efficacy in a real clinical trial. Preclinical evidence is nice to jump start development, but see Point 1. And small case studies or poorly controlled trials are not good evidence for widespread use. This drug (and combination) have well known side effects that could be lethal in patients with COVID-19: until their is real evidence of efficacy, I'd say the risks do not outweigh benefits. Let the real clinical trials run, which should read out soon enough, given the numbers of available patients, then we can come back to discussing whether this should be used or not
It's neckbeard Dunning Kruger all the way. It should be slapped down, and hard. Thank you for doing your part.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,266
2,971
126
Sorry OP but who gives a shit if he has stock in a pharmaceutical company. So do I. Also, it was PROVEN on Feb 28 that plaquenil (hydroxychloroquin) works on Covid-19 HERE

Do your research and don't follow the media. Also, democrats blocked this news from mainstream media if your willing to look.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
7,149
2,330
136
Just heard what appeared to be piece of the PR campaign on the radio. A "Radio caller" with an anecdote about how he had coronavirus and his doctor gave him Hydroxychloroquine and he immediately felt better.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY