Breaking: Gitmo guards accused of mistreating Koran (and yes, this includes flushing one down a toilet)

[Phokus]

Gitmo Guards Accused of Mistreating Koran
Newly Released FBI Documents Detail Allegations

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 25, 2005; 3:57 PM



Numerous detainees at the Guantanamo Bay military prison in Cuba told FBI interrogators that guards had mistreated copies of the Koran, including one who said in 2002 that guards "flushed a Koran in the toilet," according to new FBI documents released today.

The summaries of FBI interviews, obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union as part of an ongoing lawsuit, also include allegations that the Koran was kicked, thrown to the floor and withheld as punishment and that guards mocked Muslim prisoners during prayers.

Nearly all of the hundreds of pages of documents consist of FBI summaries of detainee interrogations, and therefore do not generally provide corroboration of the allegations. At least two detainees also conceded that they had not personally witnessed mistreatment of the Koran but had heard about incidents from other inmates, the records show.

But the records, many of which were heavily edited by the government, further underscore the widespread nature of allegations related to the Koran and Islam among detainees at Guantanamo. Red Cross investigators in 2002 and 2003 documented what they considered reliable allegations of Koran mistreatment at the facility, and some detainees have made similar allegations through their attorneys.

The release of the new FBI documents comes in the wake of an international uproar over a now-retracted story by Newsweek magazine, which reported that an internal military report had confirmed that a Koran was flushed down a toilet. The retracted story has been linked by the Bush administration to deadly riots overseas.

A Defense Department spokesman was not immediately available for comment today. Pentagon officials have said previously that detainee allegations about the Koran have not been considered credible, although authorities have launched an internal review in the wake of the Newsweek controversy.

Amrit Singh, an ACLU attorney, said in a press release that "the United States' own documents show that it has known of numerous allegations of Koran desecration for a significant period of time."

"The failure to address these allegations in a timely manner raises grave questions regarding the extent to which such desecration was authorized by high-ranking U.S. officials in the first place," Singh said.

The new documents include other allegations of questionable treatment at Guantanamo, including two reports of beatings by guards and a report that a female guard told a prisoner she was menstruating and then "wiped blood from her body on his face and head."

The latter incident, which would be considered highly offensive to a Muslim man, is similar to a claim made by Erik Saar, a former Army translator at Guantanamo who has written a book about mistreatment of detainees there. The government has said two female interrogators have been reprimanded, including one for smearing fake menstrual blood on a captive.

Following the reports of Koran mistreatment by the Red Cross and others, the Pentagon issued rules in January 2003 governing the handling of the book and forbidding its placement on the floor, near a toilet or in other "dirty/wet areas."

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Maybe the newsweek story was right after all.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

documents show that it has known of numerous allegations of Koran desecration for a significant period of time

Yes, we know there have been allegations. Infact there have been many allegations. The problem seems to come in when people who chant about the allegations are asked for verification and proof of these acts.


I read a story the other day about some of these allegations. Some of the "abuses" reported were setting a Koran on a TV set for a moment. *gasp* teh horrars. Another was touching the pouch that a Koran was kept in. Now, to be clear, I'm sure there have been come incidents that may have crossed the line but to try to extrapolate any or all of these into a widespread/condoned abuse scenario is wildly absurd.

CsG

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Gitmo Guards Accused of Mistreating Koran
Newly Released FBI Documents Detail Allegations

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 25, 2005; 3:57 PM



Numerous detainees at the Guantanamo Bay military prison in Cuba told FBI interrogators that guards had mistreated copies of the Koran, including one who said in 2002 that guards "flushed a Koran in the toilet," according to new FBI documents released today.

The summaries of FBI interviews, obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union as part of an ongoing lawsuit, also include allegations that the Koran was kicked, thrown to the floor and withheld as punishment and that guards mocked Muslim prisoners during prayers.

Nearly all of the hundreds of pages of documents consist of FBI summaries of detainee interrogations, and therefore do not generally provide corroboration of the allegations. At least two detainees also conceded that they had not personally witnessed mistreatment of the Koran but had heard about incidents from other inmates, the records show.

But the records, many of which were heavily edited by the government, further underscore the widespread nature of allegations related to the Koran and Islam among detainees at Guantanamo. Red Cross investigators in 2002 and 2003 documented what they considered reliable allegations of Koran mistreatment at the facility, and some detainees have made similar allegations through their attorneys.

The release of the new FBI documents comes in the wake of an international uproar over a now-retracted story by Newsweek magazine, which reported that an internal military report had confirmed that a Koran was flushed down a toilet. The retracted story has been linked by the Bush administration to deadly riots overseas.

A Defense Department spokesman was not immediately available for comment today. Pentagon officials have said previously that detainee allegations about the Koran have not been considered credible, although authorities have launched an internal review in the wake of the Newsweek controversy.

Amrit Singh, an ACLU attorney, said in a press release that "the United States' own documents show that it has known of numerous allegations of Koran desecration for a significant period of time."

"The failure to address these allegations in a timely manner raises grave questions regarding the extent to which such desecration was authorized by high-ranking U.S. officials in the first place," Singh said.

The new documents include other allegations of questionable treatment at Guantanamo, including two reports of beatings by guards and a report that a female guard told a prisoner she was menstruating and then "wiped blood from her body on his face and head."

The latter incident, which would be considered highly offensive to a Muslim man, is similar to a claim made by Erik Saar, a former Army translator at Guantanamo who has written a book about mistreatment of detainees there. The government has said two female interrogators have been reprimanded, including one for smearing fake menstrual blood on a captive.

Following the reports of Koran mistreatment by the Red Cross and others, the Pentagon issued rules in January 2003 governing the handling of the book and forbidding its placement on the floor, near a toilet or in other "dirty/wet areas."

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Maybe the newsweek story was right after all.

Allegations, no conclusive proof.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Phokus

Gitmo Guards Accused of Mistreating Koran
Newly Released FBI Documents Detail Allegations

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 25, 2005; 3:57 PM



Numerous detainees at the Guantanamo Bay military prison in Cuba told FBI interrogators that guards had mistreated copies of the Koran, including one who said in 2002 that guards "flushed a Koran in the toilet," according to new FBI documents released today.

The summaries of FBI interviews, obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union as part of an ongoing lawsuit, also include allegations that the Koran was kicked, thrown to the floor and withheld as punishment and that guards mocked Muslim prisoners during prayers.

Nearly all of the hundreds of pages of documents consist of FBI summaries of detainee interrogations, and therefore do not generally provide corroboration of the allegations. At least two detainees also conceded that they had not personally witnessed mistreatment of the Koran but had heard about incidents from other inmates, the records show.

But the records, many of which were heavily edited by the government, further underscore the widespread nature of allegations related to the Koran and Islam among detainees at Guantanamo. Red Cross investigators in 2002 and 2003 documented what they considered reliable allegations of Koran mistreatment at the facility, and some detainees have made similar allegations through their attorneys.

The release of the new FBI documents comes in the wake of an international uproar over a now-retracted story by Newsweek magazine, which reported that an internal military report had confirmed that a Koran was flushed down a toilet. The retracted story has been linked by the Bush administration to deadly riots overseas.

A Defense Department spokesman was not immediately available for comment today. Pentagon officials have said previously that detainee allegations about the Koran have not been considered credible, although authorities have launched an internal review in the wake of the Newsweek controversy.

Amrit Singh, an ACLU attorney, said in a press release that "the United States' own documents show that it has known of numerous allegations of Koran desecration for a significant period of time."

"The failure to address these allegations in a timely manner raises grave questions regarding the extent to which such desecration was authorized by high-ranking U.S. officials in the first place," Singh said.

The new documents include other allegations of questionable treatment at Guantanamo, including two reports of beatings by guards and a report that a female guard told a prisoner she was menstruating and then "wiped blood from her body on his face and head."

The latter incident, which would be considered highly offensive to a Muslim man, is similar to a claim made by Erik Saar, a former Army translator at Guantanamo who has written a book about mistreatment of detainees there. The government has said two female interrogators have been reprimanded, including one for smearing fake menstrual blood on a captive.

Following the reports of Koran mistreatment by the Red Cross and others, the Pentagon issued rules in January 2003 governing the handling of the book and forbidding its placement on the floor, near a toilet or in other "dirty/wet areas."

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Maybe the newsweek story was right after all.

Allegations, no conclusive proof.

I'm just curious, what is the requirement for conclusive proof in your idea of it, that doesn't involve a government official telling you it is one way or the other?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Phokus

Gitmo Guards Accused of Mistreating Koran
Newly Released FBI Documents Detail Allegations

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 25, 2005; 3:57 PM



Numerous detainees at the Guantanamo Bay military prison in Cuba told FBI interrogators that guards had mistreated copies of the Koran, including one who said in 2002 that guards "flushed a Koran in the toilet," according to new FBI documents released today.

The summaries of FBI interviews, obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union as part of an ongoing lawsuit, also include allegations that the Koran was kicked, thrown to the floor and withheld as punishment and that guards mocked Muslim prisoners during prayers.

Nearly all of the hundreds of pages of documents consist of FBI summaries of detainee interrogations, and therefore do not generally provide corroboration of the allegations. At least two detainees also conceded that they had not personally witnessed mistreatment of the Koran but had heard about incidents from other inmates, the records show.

But the records, many of which were heavily edited by the government, further underscore the widespread nature of allegations related to the Koran and Islam among detainees at Guantanamo. Red Cross investigators in 2002 and 2003 documented what they considered reliable allegations of Koran mistreatment at the facility, and some detainees have made similar allegations through their attorneys.

The release of the new FBI documents comes in the wake of an international uproar over a now-retracted story by Newsweek magazine, which reported that an internal military report had confirmed that a Koran was flushed down a toilet. The retracted story has been linked by the Bush administration to deadly riots overseas.

A Defense Department spokesman was not immediately available for comment today. Pentagon officials have said previously that detainee allegations about the Koran have not been considered credible, although authorities have launched an internal review in the wake of the Newsweek controversy.

Amrit Singh, an ACLU attorney, said in a press release that "the United States' own documents show that it has known of numerous allegations of Koran desecration for a significant period of time."

"The failure to address these allegations in a timely manner raises grave questions regarding the extent to which such desecration was authorized by high-ranking U.S. officials in the first place," Singh said.

The new documents include other allegations of questionable treatment at Guantanamo, including two reports of beatings by guards and a report that a female guard told a prisoner she was menstruating and then "wiped blood from her body on his face and head."

The latter incident, which would be considered highly offensive to a Muslim man, is similar to a claim made by Erik Saar, a former Army translator at Guantanamo who has written a book about mistreatment of detainees there. The government has said two female interrogators have been reprimanded, including one for smearing fake menstrual blood on a captive.

Following the reports of Koran mistreatment by the Red Cross and others, the Pentagon issued rules in January 2003 governing the handling of the book and forbidding its placement on the floor, near a toilet or in other "dirty/wet areas."

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Maybe the newsweek story was right after all.

Allegations, no conclusive proof.

I'm just curious, what is the requirement for conclusive proof in your idea of it, that doesn't involve a government official telling you it is one way or the other?

At least corraboration, something that they couldnt get. Especially not hearsay as appears to be the case on a couple of reported incidents.

What is your requirement?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Phokus

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Maybe the newsweek story was right after all.

hmmm...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: bthorny
I'm just curious, what is the requirement for conclusive proof in your idea of it, that doesn't involve a government official telling you it is one way or the other?

At least corraboration, something that they couldnt get. Especially not hearsay as appears to be the case on a couple of reported incidents.

What is your requirement?

Corroboration obtained by...oh...say... the Red Cross?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Phokus

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Maybe the newsweek story was right after all.

hmmm...

Oh i see the tinfoil is wrapped around your head a little tight. Ok then:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157679,00.html

WASHINGTON ? Terror suspects at the Guantanamo Bay (search) prison told U.S. interrogators as early as April 2002, just four months after the first detainees arrived, that military guards abused them and desecrated the Koran (search), declassified FBI records say.

"Their behavior is bad," one detainee is quoted as saying of his guards during an interrogation by an FBI special agent in July 2002. "About five months ago the guards beat the detainees. They flushed a Koran in the toilet."

The statements about guards disrespecting the Koran echo public allegations made many months later by some detainees and their lawyers after prisoners' release from Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The once-secret FBI documents show a consistency to the allegations and are the first indication that Justice and Defense department officials were aware in early 2002 that detainees were accusing their guards of mistreating the holy book.

Separately on Wednesday, Amnesty International (search) urged the United States to shut down the prison, calling it "the gulag of our time." White House spokesman Scott McClellan (search) said the human rights group's complaints were "unsupported by the facts" and that allegations of mistreatment were being investigated.

Pentagon officials have said recently that the public claims by released detainees were not credible and that the terror suspects held at Guantanamo Bay had been trained to make such false claims.

Indeed, the FBI records cite at least one instance in which a detainee is said to have falsely claimed that a guard had dropped a Koran. "In actuality the detainee dropped the Koran and then blamed the guard. Many other detainees reacted to this claim," the FBI document said, and that sparked an uprising "on or about 19-20 July 2002."

In an April 6, 2002, FBI interrogation, one of the detainees said guards had been "pushing them around and throwing their waste bucket at them in the cell, sometimes with waste still in the bucket, and kicking the Koran."

Another detainee stated that he had been beaten unconscious at Guantanamo Bay in the spring of 2002, a period in which U.S. interrogators were pressing hard for intelligence information they believed some of the detainees held on the planning, structure and tactics of Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist network.

The newly released FBI records do not indicate whether the allegations were investigated or substantiated.

In response to a recent Newsweek story, later retracted, that U.S. officials had confirmed allegations of Koran desecration at Guantanamo Bay, Pentagon officials have said repeatedly that they have turned up no credible, substantiated claims that U.S. military guards had deliberately treated the Muslim holy book with disrespect.

Pentagon officials had no immediate comment on the new FBI documents, which were made public Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU said it received them in response to a federal court order that directed the FBI and other agencies to comply with the organization's request under the Freedom of Information Act.

In many of the interrogations described in the FBI documents, military officers were present. Some were with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations; others were Navy and Army investigations personnel.

Large portions of the interrogation summaries were blacked out by FBI censors before being released to the ACLU.

U.S. Southern Command, which is responsible for the Guantanamo Bay detention center, responded to the Newsweek story by beginning a review of written logs searching for corroborated incidents of Koran mishandling. As of Wednesday, officials had not reported finding any.

In January 2003, the military issued a three-page written guideline for handling a detainee's Koran, including a stipulation that it should be handled "as if it were a fragile piece of delicate art," and that it not be placed in "offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet or dirty/wet areas."

ACLU officials said the newly declassified documents provide new evidence that U.S. authorities at Guantanamo Bay were mistreating symbols of the detainees' religious beliefs as a tactic to force them to talk.

"The United States government continues to turn a blind eye to mounting evidence of widespread abuse of detainees held in its custody," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero. "If we are to truly repair America's standing in the world, the Bush administration must hold accountable high-ranking officials who allow the continuing abuse and torture of detainees."

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

More circling of the wagons by some of the MSM around Newsweek by dredging up old "allegations" as something brand spanking new?

::yawn::

You know what's really going down the toilet lately? Any and all credibility of the MSM.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
More circling of the wagons by some of the MSM around Newsweek by dredging up old "allegations" as something brand spanking new?

::yawn::

You know what's really going down the toilet lately? Any and all credibility of the MSM.

Considering fox news also published the story, then you agree that fox news has no credibility either. Got it.

And this isn't 'old', these are newly released documents.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: bthorny
I'm just curious, what is the requirement for conclusive proof in your idea of it, that doesn't involve a government official telling you it is one way or the other?

At least corraboration, something that they couldnt get. Especially not hearsay as appears to be the case on a couple of reported incidents.

What is your requirement?

Corroboration obtained by...oh...say... the Red Cross?

I didnt realize the red cross was in the cell 100% of the time and during interrogations?

Amazing work the red cross does.

btw this report doesnt give you the answer you want so now we move onto plan B I see?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: bthorny
I'm just curious, what is the requirement for conclusive proof in your idea of it, that doesn't involve a government official telling you it is one way or the other?

At least corraboration, something that they couldnt get. Especially not hearsay as appears to be the case on a couple of reported incidents.

What is your requirement?

Corroboration obtained by...oh...say... the Red Cross?

I didnt realize the red cross was in the cell 100% of the time and during interrogations?

Amazing work the red cross does.

btw this report doesnt give you the answer you want so now we move onto plan B I see?

Nope...no plan B. Just proof:

Newsweek report on Quran matches many earlier accounts
http://rawstory.com/exclusives/newsweek_koran_report_516.htm

Contrary to White House assertions, the allegations of religious desecration at Guantanamo published by Newsweek May 6 are common among ex-prisoners and have been widely reported outside the United States, RAW STORY has learned.

Several former detainees at the Guantanamo and Bagram airbase prisons have reported instances of their handlers sitting or standing on the Quran, throwing or kicking it in toilets, and urinating on it.

Where the Newsweek report likely erred was in saying that the U.S. was slated to acknowledge desecrating the Quran in internal investigations, and in relying on a single anonymous source to make grave allegations. But reports of desecration are manifold.

One such incident?during which the Koran allegedly was thrown in a pile and stepped on?prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in Mar. 2002, which led to an apology. The New York Times interviewed former detainee Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi May 1, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp.

"A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans," Times reporters Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt wrote in "Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay."

The hunger strike and apology story was also confirmed by another former detainee, Shafiq Rasul, interviewed by the UK Guardian in 2003 (James Meek, "The people the law forgot," Guardian, Dec. 3, 2003) It was also confirmed by former prisoner Jamal al-Harith in an interview with the Daily Mirror (Rosa Prince and Gary Jones, "My Hell in Camp X-ray World Exclusive," Daily Mirror, Mar. 12, 2004).

The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:

"Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. ?It was a very bad situation for us,? said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. ?We cried so much and shouted, Please do not do that to the Holy Koran.? (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment," Washington Post, Mar. 26, 2003.)

Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in Mar. 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:

"The behaviour of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitution Rights, Detention in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, (Aug. 4, 2004, deposition available here.)

The claim that US troops at Bagram airbase prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Américains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement", Apr. 11, 2005). An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners web site (which describes itself as a "non-sectarian Islamic human rights website"): http://www.cageprisoners.com/print.php?id=6862

Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cageprisoners.com, available at: http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=1611

Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-inmates share Guantanamo ordeal," May 2, 2005).

Newsweek Was Right
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/132550

The Bush Administration's aggressive response to a Newsweek story alleging that US interrogators at Guantanamo Bay flushed the Koran down the toilet in front of Islamic detainees displays the height of hypocrisy. After Newsweek clumsily issued an apology, followed by a retraction, White House spokesman Scott McClellan called on the magazine to "help repair the damage that has been done, particularly in the region," by explaining "what happened and why they got it wrong." Maybe the Bush Administration should do the same, by opening up its secret facilities for inspection to the Red Cross and other third-party observers. We are printing below a letter from reader Calgacus--a pseudonym for a researcher in the national security field for the past twenty years--that shows how the desecration of the Koran became standard US interrogation practice.

"Contrary to White House spin, the allegations of religious desecration at Guantanamo such as those described by Newsweek on 9 May 2005 are common among ex-prisoners and have been widely reported outside the United States. Several former detainees at the Guantanamo and Bagram airbase prisons have reported instances of their handlers sitting or standing on the Koran, throwing or kicking it in toilets, and urinating on it.

One such incident (during which the Koran was thrown into a pile and stepped on) prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in March 2002. Regarding this, the New York Times in a 1 May 2005, article interviewed a former detainee, Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp. And the Times reports: "A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans." (Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt, "Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay," New York Times, May 1, 2005, p. 35.)

The hunger strike and apology story is also confirmed by another former detainee, Shafiq Rasul, interviewed by the UK Guardian in 2003 (James Meek, "The People the Law Forgot," The Guardian, December 3, 2003, p. 1.) It was also confirmed by former prisoner Jamal al-Harith in an interview with the Daily Mirror (Rosa Prince and Gary Jones, "My Hell in Camp X-ray World Exclusive," Daily Mirror, March 12, 2004.)

The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:

"Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. It was a very bad situation for us, said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. We cried so much and shouted, Please do not do that to the Holy Koran. (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment," Washington Post, March 26, 2003.)

Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in March 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:

"The behaviour of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitution Rights, Detention in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, August 4, 2004.)

The claim that US troops at Bagram airbase prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Americains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement", April 11, 2005). An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners web site.

Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cageprisoners.com.

Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-inmates Share Guantanamo Ordeal," May 2, 2005.)

Red Cross told U.S. of Koran incidents
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati...may19,1,278199.story?coll=chi-news-hed

WASHINGTON -- The International Committee of the Red Cross documented what it called credible information about U.S. personnel disrespecting or mishandling Korans at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility and pointed it out to the Pentagon in confidential reports during 2002 and early 2003, an ICRC spokesman said Wednesday.

Representatives of the ICRC, who have played a key role in investigating abuse allegations at the facility in Cuba and other U.S. military prisons, never witnessed such incidents firsthand during on-site visits, said Simon Schorno, an ICRC spokesman in Washington.

But ICRC delegates, who have been granted access to the secretive camp since January 2002, gathered and corroborated enough similar, independent reports from detainees to raise the issue multiple times with Guantanamo commanders and with Pentagon officials, Schorno said in an interview Wednesday.

Following the ICRC's reports, the Defense Department command in Guantanamo issued almost three pages of detailed, written guidelines for treatment of Korans. Schorno said ICRC representatives did not receive any other complaints or document similar incidents following the issuance of the guidelines on Jan. 19, 2003.

The issue of how Korans are handled by American personnel guarding Muslim detainees moved into the spotlight after protests in Muslim nations, including deadly riots in Afghanistan, that followed a now-retracted report in Newsweek magazine. That story said U.S. investigators had confirmed that interrogators had flushed a Koran down a toilet.

The Koran is Islam's holiest book, and mistreating it is seen as an offense against God.

Following the firestorm over the report and the riots, the ICRC declined Wednesday to discuss what kind of alleged incidents were involved, how many there were or how often it reported them to American officials prior to the release of the 2003 Koran guidelines.

"We don't want to comment specifically on specific instances of desecration, only on the general level of how the Koran was disrespected," Schorno said.

Schorno did say, however, that there were "multiple" instances involved and that the ICRC made confidential reports about such incidents "multiple" times to Guantanamo and Pentagon officials.

In addition to the retracted Newsweek story, senior Bush administration officials have repeatedly downplayed other reports regarding alleged abuses of the Koran at Guantanamo, largely dismissing them because they came from current or former detainees.

Pentagon confirms reports

Asked about the ICRC's confidential reports Wednesday night, Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman, confirmed their existence but sought to downplay the seriousness of their content. He said they were forwarded "on rare occasions" and called them "detainee allegations which they [the ICRC] could not corroborate."

But that is not how Schorno, the ICRC spokesman, portrayed the reports.

"All information we received were corroborated allegations," he said, adding, "We certainly corroborated mentions of the events by detainees themselves."

`Not just one person'

Schorno also said: "Obviously, it is not just one person telling us something happened and we just fire up. We take it very seriously, and very carefully, and document everything in our confidential reports."

It was not clear whether the ICRC's corroboration went beyond statements made independently by detainees.

The organization has said that it insists on speaking "in total privacy to each and every detainee held" when its delegates and translators visit military detention facilities.

Still, Whitman said there was nothing in the ICRC reports that approximated the information published in the story retracted by Newsweek.

"The representations that were made to the United States military at Guantanamo by the ICRC are consistent with the types of things we have found in various [U.S. military] log entries about handling Korans, such as the accidental dropping of a Koran," he said.


continue >>

And

http://www.kuwaitifreedom.org/media/pdf/Nightmare%20of%20Guantanamo.pdf

http://www.theage.com.au/news/Iraq/Deta...01/02/1104601224829.html?oneclick=true

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/uk/3959635.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-10-17-halabi_x.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/08/04/guantanamo.abuse.accusations/

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=548033

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...cle/archive/2004/06/20/MNGSP78UD11.DTL

http://www.countercurrents.org/hr-rose170504.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1216645,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1169178,00.html

http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.p...ESSID=bc96f8fd7a11c7c0bb8f9bf48a1f908d

 

[Genx87]

Lots of allegations

Red Cross is a health organization yes?

 

[conjur]

Read the articles. Not just allegations. Corroborated evidence.

 

[Genx87]

According to whom? The red Cross?

Since when does the red cross investigate allegations of religious material being flushed?

Ill read the rest of your spam when I get time. Do they mention any names in these allegations? Or are they allegations from anons and the people who supposedly did this also anon?

Allegations + anon == worthless waste of time.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: conjur
Read the articles. Not just allegations. Corroborated evidence.

It doesn't matter Conjur, it didn't come directly from the Mount.

Mount White House, that is.

Let me ask all of those in denial on the right a question.....

If you were locked in a cell with only a couple of guards interogating you, do you think that they would allow you the courtesy of a video camera or an impartial witness to back up and corroborate what they put you through?

Use your freaking heads and common sense. If one person makes the claim....it is pure allegation, if 50 people are making the same claim and don't have access to one another....there is probably some truth to it.

 

[ElFenix]

ok, lemme summarize the evidence

a lot of allegations on the part of people in whose interest it is to make the US look bad. some of whom admit their knowledge is second hand. all of which looks like happened during 2002.

a directive by the us military on how to treat the Koran in early 2003.

no further reports since.

a claim by a translator that female interrogators smeared fake blood on some prisoners. two female guards were reprimanded.

of course, i'd like to know how the red cross coroborated reports. was it merely through the fact that so many prisoners claimed similar things? how similar are the claims? how independent are the reports? is everyone kept in separate rooms? is there any chance of communication? there are people admitting to second hand stories so obviously there is a chance of communication between prisoners. did the red cross witness interrogations? did they do it anonymously? is it possible that the whole gang made up a story before hand, like any good conspirators would do?

 

[sandorski]

Oh my.

Iraqi WMDs = "proof"
Koran flushings = "allegations"

Seems like quite the pickle, who to believe?

It also seems that NewsWeek committed the sin of notifying the American public of what was largely reported in other parts of the World for quite some time. I suppose Americans knowing what's going on outside their Borders is dangerous to the current Admin.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
ok, lemme summarize the evidence

a lot of allegations on the part of people in whose interest it is to make the US look bad. some of whom admit their knowledge is second hand. all of which looks like happened during 2002.

a directive by the us military on how to treat the Koran in early 2003.

no further reports since.

a claim by a translator that female interrogators smeared fake blood on some prisoners. two female guards were reprimanded.

of course, i'd like to know how the red cross coroborated reports. was it merely through the fact that so many prisoners claimed similar things? how similar are the claims? how independent are the reports? is everyone kept in separate rooms? is there any chance of communication? there are people admitting to second hand stories so obviously there is a chance of communication between prisoners. did the red cross witness interrogations? did they do it anonymously? is it possible that the whole gang made up a story before hand, like any good conspirators would do?

You need to leave. You are clearly way to level-headed and logical for this forum.

CsG

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
More circling of the wagons by some of the MSM around Newsweek by dredging up old "allegations" as something brand spanking new?

::yawn::

You know what's really going down the toilet lately? Any and all credibility of the MSM.

Considering fox news also published the story, then you agree that fox news has no credibility either. Got it.

And this isn't 'old', these are newly released documents.

Considering I don't watch Fox News, why should I even care.

Then again. So many in here claim Fox News is biased, yet they published this story? Well, well. Apparently we have something else from the left going down the toilet, eh?

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
ok, lemme summarize the evidence

a lot of allegations on the part of people in whose interest it is to make the US look bad. some of whom admit their knowledge is second hand. all of which looks like happened during 2002.

a directive by the us military on how to treat the Koran in early 2003.

no further reports since.

a claim by a translator that female interrogators smeared fake blood on some prisoners. two female guards were reprimanded.

of course, i'd like to know how the red cross coroborated reports. was it merely through the fact that so many prisoners claimed similar things? how similar are the claims? how independent are the reports? is everyone kept in separate rooms? is there any chance of communication? there are people admitting to second hand stories so obviously there is a chance of communication between prisoners. did the red cross witness interrogations? did they do it anonymously? is it possible that the whole gang made up a story before hand, like any good conspirators would do?

Oh (from andrew sullivan):

"part of a five person Mobile Training Team from Fort Huachuca, AZ. The mission of my team was to provide an overall assessment of interrogation operations, training and advice and assistance. My focus was interrogation operations ... The Intelligence Rules of Engagement (IROE) was posted and was very similar to that IROE used in Afghanistan. During my observation of interrogation operations, the 519th demonstrated experience and dedication to the mission. Most techniques required a very specific written plan with a schedule and parameters. The MP's appeared to be in control and professional I did see detainees in various states of undress to include nakedness and detainees wearing towels. The MP's used segregation and stripping as a way to keep the detainees under control and to keep them from talking. On one occasion, I had a conversation with XXXXX, concerning the IROE and interrogation approaches. I gave him examples of approaches including Pride and Ego Down where an interrogator took a Koran, threw it on the floor and stepped on it and Fear Up Harsh where the interrogator had a dog trained to bark on cue if the interrogator thought the detainee was lying. I also explained sleep deprivation. I told him that in Afghanistan the interrogators could use an adjusted sleep schedule for detainees. The conversation was meant to explain why these activities were prohibited or restricted.

...


I told him of a story I heard in Afghanistan of a dog used during an interrogation. The dog was trained to bark on cue and would bark any time the interrogator had reason to believe the detainee was lying during the interrogation. I told him this would probably not be allowed but that the presence of barking dogs in the prison might be effective. I told him of a story of an interrogator using and Pride and Ego Down approach. The interrogator took a copy of the Koran and threw it on the ground and stepped on the Koran, which resulted in a detainee riot. .. I never personally witnessed the above incidents, but heard about them from other interrogation facility personnel...

http://www.andrewsullivan.com/

 

[Phokus]

More on this:

"Personally, he has nothing against the United States. The guards in the detention facility do not treat him well. Their behavior is bad. About five months ago, the guards beat the detainees. They flushed a Koran in the toilet," the FBI agent wrote.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s...525/ts_nm/security_guantanamo_koran_dc

So an FBI says they flushed the koran in the toilet, not 'allegedly flushed the koran down the toilet'.

I expect as this story unfolds more and more, we'll be seeing less of Cad and co. (is it me or does this ALWAYS happen)?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Lots of allegations

Red Cross is a health organization yes?

wtf??

first you dont have a clue about the difference between socialism and communism and now you dont have a clue about the red cross

 

[Crimson]

Whats odd, is if this were an 'artist', and he took a Bible and put in into a jar of urine, the left here would be praising it as art, and encourage government funding of it. Perhaps we should give the guys who did this (allegedly) massive government grants for their artistic vision?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Whats odd, is if this were an 'artist', and he took a Bible and put in into a jar of urine, the left here would be praising it as art, and encourage government funding of it. Perhaps we should give the guys who did this (allegedly) massive government grants for their artistic vision?

yes.. my crystal ball predicts the same thing