Brammo Empulse

[JeffreyLebowski]

Huge issues with standardization there; that would place massive constraints on how a vehicle could be engineered as well as require that a large tow vehicle use the same battery pack as a commuter car. You end up with either a pickup that can tow your boat only 50 miles on a pack or a Yaris that weighs 4,500 pounds because it has a battery pack large enough for an F-350.

And then there's still the space to store the battery packs.

ZV

If there is a standardized size, larger vehicles just use more of the batteries.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Hydrogen though doesn't help the problem with less energy used. It takes as much energy to make the hydrogen fuel as you get out of it, thus you're just transfering the medium of energy delivery.

True so far as it goes, but hydrogen generation can be performed with many different types of energy input. If the energy input is clean and easily renewable, then the fact that it takes energy to generate the hydrogen effectively doesn't matter.

If there is a standardized size, larger vehicles just use more of the batteries.

Then you have nonstandard placements or arrangements, which can't be done with standardized machinery to replace the packs. Or you have to standardize placement which restricts design freedom.

ZV

 

[Silex]

Hydrogen though doesn't help the problem with less energy used. It takes as much energy to make the hydrogen fuel as you get out of it, thus you're just transfering the medium of energy delivery.

Moving vehicles to electric does nothing to solve our oil/gas/fossil fuel dependancy issue. It just shifts the burden somewhere else. It's a feel good thing.
We need to focus on power generation 1st.
But as far as the bike goes, does it have regenerative braking? Or perhaps an alternator like device in the wheels to help charge the battery while it runs? It couldn't charge more than intially there, but could increase range.

Brammo follows a KISS principle. Regenerative braking is absent from their current Enertia bike and more than likely won't be on this Empulse either. Their reasoning is that the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost to implement regenerative braking as well as it just being another part that can fail. People on elmoto.net have suggested that just a rear system would make it worthwhile, but we have yet to hear back from them on a possible implementation. It's brought up, because the BMS supports it so the riders have a "just use it" mentality.

 

[Plugers]

True so far as it goes, but hydrogen generation can be performed with many different types of energy input. If the energy input is clean and easily renewable, then the fact that it takes energy to generate the hydrogen effectively doesn't matter.



Then you have nonstandard placements or arrangements, which can't be done with standardized machinery to replace the packs. Or you have to standardize placement which restricts design freedom.

ZV

You lose energy with every conversion.

So, power plant(many kinds) to electricity to Hydrogen back to electricity wastes much more energy than power plant to electricity.

Plus line losses from PP - hydrogen plant - transportation of Hydrogen. vs. just the power line losses once to your point of charging also seems less wasteful.

 

[Zenmervolt]

You lose energy with every conversion.

So, power plant(many kinds) to electricity to Hydrogen back to electricity wastes much more energy than power plant to electricity.

Plus line losses from PP - hydrogen plant - transportation of Hydrogen. vs. just the power line losses once to your point of charging also seems less wasteful.

Again, if the source is clean and renewable the "waste" is irrelevant. Also, hydrogen transports via pipeline quite nicely. Shell is in the process of building a hydrogen pipeline in California right now.

As long as the process is sufficiently inexpensive that it achieves rough parity at the refilling station with the price of gasoline, it doesn't matter how much more total energy is used.

ZV