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Brake Failure in Cold Weather

Aikouka

Aikouka

Lifer
I've done a bit of reading on this subject, but I kind of wanted to toss what I've found to some more technically-inclined people.

I have a 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5SL with ~27,500 miles. The brakes have never been changed and while I have not looked at the level of wear, the car was only serviced recently and they said everything passed. But anyway, I noticed one day that my "VDC OFF" and "SLIP" lights were both on and wouldn't go off until I turned the car off and then back on (essentially restarting the system).

I did some research and saw some people saying that lower brake fluid levels from the pads being worn down can cause the "BRAKE" light to come on indicating an issue with the brakes and then the VDC system can shut off because of that. Last night, after making a 90 degree left turn, I noticed the brake light come on and shortly after, the VDC+SLIP lights both came on and stayed on until the car was turned off (the BRAKE light went away after 10 seconds or so).

The first time this happened, I made a left turn and last night it was during a left turn. So could this be the forces from the turn shifting the brake fluid away from the fluid sensor causing it to believe there are lower levels than there actually are or is that just some silly Internet conjecture?

It's probably also good to note that I did see the BRAKE light come on once and VDC did not shut down.

EDIT:

I changed the title after some thought (see post #11) that the VDC turning off is only a side-effect of the brake system supposedly malfunctioning. I believe this only occurs during cold weather after the car sitting overnight (or overnight + all day).
 
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Viperoni said:
I'd guess its more likely to be an issue with the ABS sensor on the left front wheel.
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This would be my guess, I'd check both fronts. Nissan doesn't build them into the hub either so they're relatively cheap and easy to replace. If you get it scanned it should point out the faulty sensor.
 
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"VDC OFF" and "SLIP" lights usually do come on when you have low brake fluid or your pads need changing.

Did you check the Brake Fluid Reservoir?
 
I need to check my paperwork to see how long my warranty lasts for first 😛. I can't recall how long it is off the top of my head, but I think it's actually the extended warranty.

Viperoni said:
I'd guess its more likely to be an issue with the ABS sensor on the left front wheel.
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I was considering something like that (as I saw that mentioned), but wouldn't it happen more often?

thescreensavers said:
"VDC OFF" and "SLIP" lights usually do come on when you have low brake fluid or your pads need changing.

Did you check the Brake Fluid Reservoir?
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I haven't had a chance yet, but since you also mention that it's a possibility, I'll definitely have to give it a look.

EDIT:

I looked at the reservoir and well... I found that I'm not very good at telling how much fluid is in it 😛. Given how opaque it is, I could see that there is fluid in the bottom portion of the reservoir, but up near the MIN and MAX line... I'm not really sure. There didn't appear to be a blue tinge there.
 
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Aikouka said:
I need to check my paperwork to see how long my warranty lasts for first 😛. I can't recall how long it is off the top of my head, but I think it's actually the extended warranty.



I was considering something like that (as I saw that mentioned), but wouldn't it happen more often?



I haven't had a chance yet, but since you also mention that it's a possibility, I'll definitely have to give it a look.

EDIT:

I looked at the reservoir and well... I found that I'm not very good at telling how much fluid is in it 😛. Given how opaque it is, I could see that there is fluid in the bottom portion of the reservoir, but up near the MIN and MAX line... I'm not really sure. There didn't appear to be a blue tinge there.
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blue tinge? :O Brake fluid is like clear/yellowish. Usually old fluid looks like dark honey. Now your saying Blue? that I have no idea.

Shine some light in, it should help
 
thescreensavers said:
blue tinge? :O Brake fluid is like clear/yellowish. Usually old fluid looks like dark honey. Now your saying Blue? that I have no idea.

Shine some light in, it should help
Click to expand...

Odd... I mean, I shined my flashlight on it and the bottom of the reservoir looked somewhat blue through the opaque container.

I might just take a peek at the brake pads and see if I need to change them.
 
I think this is actually a bit more broad than VDC turning off, as VDC shutting down is just a consequence of this other thing occurring.

When I drove my car to work this morning, I noticed that the brake light actually came on a few times, and given it was on for long enough, VDC shut down since it thought the brake system was malfunctioning. I actually had the light come on while on a straight away and it went away when I applied the brakes.

The one thing I never really considered though... every time this happened, it was from a cold start, and I mean car sitting outside all night around 20F (-6C) cold. To give you an idea, it took maybe 6 minutes out of the 8 minute drive for the car to get warm enough for the heater to start blowing air.

I honestly never suspected the cold as a culprit, because I used to live in New York and I never saw this problem, but I also never considered that my brakes weren't as worn down when I lived up there. I also just thought about it, and I believe my car was always kept in a garage while I lived in PA and NY.

Is there something the much colder temperatures could be doing to my brake system to cause failures?
 
Sure. Brake fluid expands and contracts with temperature.

I would just try adding a little to the reservoir and see if the problem goes away. If it does, then it's prob just pad wear that you need to check into. If it doesn't, then you need to look further.
 
Have you tried removing your brake fluid reservoir cap and looking inside to see what the fluid level is? Only ask because driving around with a car that constantly flashes its "dem brakes ain't working right" light just doesn't seem too safe....or smart.
 
I took a look at it earlier today, and I took a picture. It's not too easy to get a good shot of the MIN and MAX lines though.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l51/shin_aikouka/IMG_0135.jpg

Photobucket seems to have shrunk the picture... I can upload the full size if necessary. If you look near the back, you can see what I meant about the blue color, but near the front it seems to be the amber-ish color that thescreensavers was talking about.

Also, I'd like to figure out what it is first. If it's just the brake pads, I'm not so certain that I'd like to pay the huge dealer mark-up just to put them on when I've done it before (without problems 😛). Although, I wonder if replacing the pads myself would cause a problem with my warranty... it's one of those very inclusive (pretty much any part excluding wear-and-tear parts) warranties.
 
Could be fluid, unlikly, but usually in the ABS system from the sounds of it.

My Corvette has some ABS/Track issues every now and then. Just ordered a new scanner that can do ABS for that reason. Came on the other day when I was driving a very high speed going straight. Goes off when I restart the car.
 
When was the brake fluid last changed? Brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs water over time. Maybe ice crystals are forming and causing sensors to report oddly?
 
It was kind of odd this morning. I was leaving for work and I thought I heard a sort of screeching sound when pressing on the brake. I put my window down and when stopping at the end of the road, I definitely heard it. First thought... pad wear indicator.

But then later on, I went to see if I could hear it again and I never heard it again all day. Of course, as per every other cold morning (it was around 15F this morning), the BRAKE light came on and only ever came on in the morning. Definitely seems more and more like a cold-related issue :\.

I have an appointment for Thursday to get it looked at... just hope they don't try to pass one over on me 😛.

DivideBYZero said:
When was the brake fluid last changed? Brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs water over time. Maybe ice crystals are forming and causing sensors to report oddly?
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To my knowledge, the brake fluid has never been changed.

EDIT:

As a note... during my last service, they marked on the sheet that the brake fluid should be changed during the next service.
 
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