Box Cutters and Suspicious Notes Found in Plane Lavatories

[BOBDN]

An inside job?

Box Cutters and Suspicious Notes Found in Plane Lavatories

Box Cutters and Suspicious Notes Found in Plane Lavatories
By DAVID STOUT

Published: October 17, 2003


WASHINGTON, Oct. 17 ? Box cutters and suspicious notes were found aboard two Southwest Airlines planes on Thursday, prompting the federal government to order that all the United States commercial aircraft ? a fleet of some 7,000 ? be searched at once.

The items were found in the lavatories of planes in New Orleans and Houston while crews were performing maintenance, Southwest said in a statement today. The airline added that the notes left with the box cutters indicated that whoever had planted the items did so to challenge airport security procedures and not as part of a terrorist plot.

Regardless of the motive, the placement of the dangerous implements aboard the planes was certain to fan a continuing debate over the adequacy of airport security, especially since the 19 hijackers in the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks are believed to have used box cutters in overpowering the airline crews and intimidating passengers.

The discovery of the items in New Orleans and Houston may prompt harsh questions not just from politicians but from ordinary airline travelers, since they have had to adjust to taking off their shoes at airport checkpoints and surrendering things like small scissors and nail clippers in their travel kits that the authorities say could be be used as weapons.

The Department of Homeland Security said the nation's commercial aircraft would be searched as a precaution. There are about 7,000 such aircraft, and early indications were that the searches could be accomplished without major disruptions to schedules.

Southwest said it had already inspected its fleet of 385 aircraft and found no additional suspicious items. The items found in New Orleans and Houston have been turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Transportation Security Administration, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security.

In addition to the box cutters and notes, the bags contained bleach and some form of clay, The Associated Press said, attributing that information to a senior law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

 

[tnitsuj]

I think everyone needs to relax a little bit. Do you really think terrorists are going to try and do the EXACT SAME THING they did before? It didn't even work on September 11 once the people on the White House bound plane figured out what was going on. Relax. Stop locking the barn door after the chickens have already gotten out.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
I think everyone needs to relax a little bit. Do you really think terrorists are going to try and do the EXACT SAME THING they did before? It didn't even work on September 11 once the people on the White House bound plane figured out what was going on. Relax. Stop locking the barn door after the chickens have already gotten out.

It didn't work on September 11? By the time the people on the White House bound plane (if it was bound for the White House) found out the WTC was rubble and the Pentagon was burning.

And yes, I think there are people who would love to try the same thing again. And they may damn well succeed if they do. The necessary measures apparently haven't been taken to prevent a repeat of the worst terrorist attack in our history.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
I think everyone needs to relax a little bit. Do you really think terrorists are going to try and do the EXACT SAME THING they did before? It didn't even work on September 11 once the people on the White House bound plane figured out what was going on. Relax. Stop locking the barn door after the chickens have already gotten out.

It didn't work on September 11? By the time the people on the White House bound plane (if it was bound for the White House) found out the WTC was rubble and the Pentagon was burning.

And yes, I think there are people who would love to try the same thing again. And they may damn well succeed if they do. The necessary measures apparently haven't been taken to prevent a repeat of the worst terrorist attack in our history.

No it didn't work. Once the passengers found out what was going on, they decided to try and take the plane keeping it from reaching its target. I believe in the future a similar reaction would great any hijacker who tried such a thing, not to mention the Air Marshalls, the new cockpit doors, and even the armed pilots.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
I think everyone needs to relax a little bit. Do you really think terrorists are going to try and do the EXACT SAME THING they did before? It didn't even work on September 11 once the people on the White House bound plane figured out what was going on. Relax. Stop locking the barn door after the chickens have already gotten out.

It didn't work on September 11? By the time the people on the White House bound plane (if it was bound for the White House) found out the WTC was rubble and the Pentagon was burning.

And yes, I think there are people who would love to try the same thing again. And they may damn well succeed if they do. The necessary measures apparently haven't been taken to prevent a repeat of the worst terrorist attack in our history.

No it didn't work. Once the passengers found out what was going on, they decided to try and take the plane keeping it from reaching its target. I believe in the future a similar reaction would great any hijacker who tried such a thing, not to mention the Air Marshalls, the new cockpit doors, and even the armed pilots.

Don't be ridiculous. How can you say it didn't work? I think you'd have a hard time convincing New Yorkers of that.

Your Air Marshalls are on a very small percentage of flights. It seems security is too expensive in light of the expenditures Bush is planning, about $87 BILLION worth on top of the $70 BILLION already wasted on an unnecessary invasion which has done nothing to combat the terrorists and has in fact aided them.

One more thing.

"In addition to the box cutters and notes, the bags contained bleach and some form of clay, The Associated Press said, attributing that information to a senior law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity."

There are common kitchen ingredients, one of which is bleach, which, when combined in the proper proportions can be used to make a very effective explosive.

You can hide your head in the sand if you like. After September 11 I thought people might change their risk assessments.

Guess I was wrong in your case.

 

[Corn]

But BOBDN, I thought that Federally employed baggage and passenger screeners was your hearlded cure-all. Guess it didn't do too much good after all...........

Oh yeah, one more thing.







BOO!!!!!!!







LOL

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: BOBDN

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
I think everyone needs to relax a little bit. Do you really think terrorists are going to try and do the EXACT SAME THING they did before? It didn't even work on September 11 once the people on the White House bound plane figured out what was going on. Relax. Stop locking the barn door after the chickens have already gotten out.

It didn't work on September 11? By the time the people on the White House bound plane (if it was bound for the White House) found out the WTC was rubble and the Pentagon was burning.

And yes, I think there are people who would love to try the same thing again. And they may damn well succeed if they do. The necessary measures apparently haven't been taken to prevent a repeat of the worst terrorist attack in our history.

No it didn't work. Once the passengers found out what was going on, they decided to try and take the plane keeping it from reaching its target. I believe in the future a similar reaction would great any hijacker who tried such a thing, not to mention the Air Marshalls, the new cockpit doors, and even the armed pilots.

Don't be ridiculous. How can you say it didn't work? I think you'd have a hard time convincing New Yorkers of that.

Your Air Marshalls are on a very small percentage of flights. It seems security is too expensive in light of the expenditures Bush is planning, about $87 BILLION worth on top of the $70 BILLION already wasted on an unnecessary invasion which has done nothing to combat the terrorists and has in fact aided them.

One more thing.

"In addition to the box cutters and notes, the bags contained bleach and some form of clay, The Associated Press said, attributing that information to a senior law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity."

There are common kitchen ingredients, one of which is bleach, which, when combined in the proper proportions can be used to make a very effective explosive.

You can hide your head in the sand if you like. After September 11 I thought people might change their risk assessments.

Guess I was wrong in your case.

Listen to me very carefully:

I did not say it didn't work:

I said:

"It didn't even work on September 11 once the people on the White House bound plane figured out what was going on."


On September 11 the passenges on Flight 93 (which was headed to Washington not New York) figured out that the hijackers most likely intended to use the plane as a weapon. The passengers on the other planes did not know this. Once the figured this out, they tried to take the plane as they were going to die anyway. When people know that they are probably going to die anyway they are willing to fight just as a cornered animal will. In future situations thier will most likely be a smilar response as everyone will already know the deal, this will most likely discourage terrorists from trying the exact same thing again. This is a major part of "my risk assessment", and not as you say sticking my head in the sand.

Do you understand that?

 

[MojoKrunch]

Of course it didn't work again... this wasn't meant to.
They got hacked.
Someone exploited their system and left a little package.

The sad thing is that the Bushbaby White House, for all its "Patriot Act" and "Homeland Security" wind and fury signifying nothing have determinedly underfunded any *workable* efforts to make the US and/or the airlines safe from terrorist attack.
(And I won't even go into how they can't, for some reason, accomplish the simple task of *apprehending* OBL... can *NO ONE* in the White House manage *diplomatic* responses to a situation?)

The reaction by the Bushbaby White House is typical fear-mongering.
In essence, the 9-11 terrorists exploited a very old weakness in our system(appeasing hijackers) using simple weapons.
The fact is the *weapons* aren't what made them able to accomplish the task, the *exploit* was.
The air crew was *trained* to go along with hijacker demands to ensure the safety of the passengers and crew and *NOT* attempt to repell the hijacking.
If SOP was to violently contradict any attempt at hijacking, and encourage passenger assistance, odds are none of the jets would have reached their target, as the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania demonstrated.

And then we spend $87B on looking for WMDs that quite obviously do not exist as the Bushbaby White House described them prior to the invasion.
Lovely.

The US people are being lied to and screwed by a presidency that lost the popular vote.
Just remember this come '04.

Mojo

 

[tnitsuj]

The exploit analogy is a very very good one,and one that people don't see amongst thier fear and mass trauma.

Essentially a one trick pony.

 

[Corn]

Do you understand that?

Of course he doesn't......are you kidding me?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Corn

Do you understand that?

Of course he doesn't......are you kidding me?

You have to speak very slowly

Cut and paste a lot of opinion (that is opinion he agrees with)

Hit enter 2x after every line

And use lots of words like this: (A$$hole, Lies, Regime, Dittoheads, Illegal, Criminal, Junta, crooks, gouged, sickening, contrived, profiteering, screwed, Americans are stupid, soldiers are stupid, etc.).

Then he might understand if you speak his language. I bet we could even produce a "shizzolater" (I'd call it a "boobolater") with a few good programmers!

 

[Gaard]

Well, one good thing came of these thread(s) with BOBDN and tnitsuj...Justin came back from Bizarro World. Welcome back dude.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Corn
But BOBDN, I thought that Federally employed baggage and passenger screeners was your hearlded cure-all. Guess it didn't do too much good after all...........

Oh yeah, one more thing.

BOO!!!!!!!

LOL

And how could it do any good?

I'd like to point out, corn, that the Bush administration didn't hire Federal baggage and passenger screeners opting instead to provide airport security on the cheap using slightly above minimum wage rent a cops in a futile attempt to make sure our airports and skies are safe from another attempt by terrorists. AFter promising to do whatever was necessary.

So yes, I believe Federal employees would do a better job than some security agency people whose experience is limited to checking receipts at the Home Depot.

And you can take your Halloween costume off. It's a little early for "BOO!!!!!" LOL.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Listen to me very carefully:

I did not say it didn't work:

I said:

"It didn't even work on September 11 once the people on the White House bound plane figured out what was going on."


On September 11 the passenges on Flight 93 (which was headed to Washington not New York) figured out that the hijackers most likely intended to use the plane as a weapon. The passengers on the other planes did not know this. Once the figured this out, they tried to take the plane as they were going to die anyway. When people know that they are probably going to die anyway they are willing to fight just as a cornered animal will. In future situations thier will most likely be a smilar response as everyone will already know the deal, this will most likely discourage terrorists from trying the exact same thing again. This is a major part of "my risk assessment", and not as you say sticking my head in the sand.

Do you understand that?

No, you listen to me very carefully. You can't make ridiculous statements about the terrorist attacks of September 11 not working by qualifying your statements about one aircraft out of four being brought down by passengers (although as I've posted before here folks from the area around Schanksville Pa. have a very different view of what happened that day).

Three aircraft were used by terrorists as they intended that day.

Why do you think the federal government would order the ENTIRE AIRLINE FLEET to be inspected immediately? Unless they were very concerned about this breech of security?

And I'd like to point out the Bush administration, while providing plenty of lip service, hasn't taken one damn step to inspect air cargo or luggage which is on the same passenger aircraft.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Corn

Do you understand that?

Of course he doesn't......are you kidding me?

You have to speak very slowly

Cut and paste a lot of opinion (that is opinion he agrees with)

Hit enter 2x after every line

And use lots of words like this: (A$$hole, Lies, Regime, Dittoheads, Illegal, Criminal, Junta, crooks, gouged, sickening, contrived, profiteering, screwed, Americans are stupid, soldiers are stupid, etc.).

Then he might understand if you speak his language. I bet we could even produce a "shizzolater" (I'd call it a "boobolater") with a few good programmers!

You are an ignorant flame bait. Where did you learn your diatribe? From galt?

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: BOBDN

And I'd like to point out the Bush administration, while providing plenty of lip service, hasn't taken one damn step to inspect air cargo or luggage which is on the same passenger aircraft.

That's because Senate negotiators dropped the provision from the bill approved by the House

 

[Lonyo]

I think the point that the "hackers" were making is that despite Sept 11th and all the "security" measures taken after then, security isn't actually all that much better as it is still very possible to take weapons onto planes which could theoretically be used for negative purposes.
For all those who say "one of the Sept 11th planes was fine". Does that mean that if it happens again that weapons are taken on a plane and used, that the attempt to hijack the plane will fail? Because 1 did 2+ years ago does not mean that it's fine for people to take weapons aboard a plane now.

After new security measures, there are still problems, and the problems, which were made obvious 2 years ago, have not been solved. This should suggest someone is not doing their job properly.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: BOBDN

And I'd like to point out the Bush administration, while providing plenty of lip service, hasn't taken one damn step to inspect air cargo or luggage which is on the same passenger aircraft.

That's because Senate negotiators dropped the provision from the bill approved by the House

Thanks.

You're admitting the Republic Party controlled House and Senate didn't fund the bill. And Bush didn't bother to ask the party he leads to change it.

 

[Corn]

No, you listen to me very carefully. You can't make ridiculous statements about the terrorist attacks of September 11 not working by qualifying your statements about one aircraft out of four being brought down by passengers (although as I've posted before here folks from the area around Schanksville Pa. have a very different view of what happened that day).

Three aircraft were used by terrorists as they intended that day.

Why do you think the federal government would order the ENTIRE AIRLINE FLEET to be inspected immediately? Unless they were very concerned about this breech of security?

And I'd like to point out the Bush administration, while providing plenty of lip service, hasn't taken one damn step to inspect air cargo or luggage which is on the same passenger aircraft.

Of course he doesn't......are you kidding me?

I hate to say "I told you so" Justin.......but damn, was it ever in doubt?

 

[Zebo]

It was either a sick prank or a setup. Why not a setup? it's easy and requires little collusion between several individuals as planting WMD's in Iraq would. But they are designed to have the same effect. Fear. Keep Bush in power. I can buy both.

There is no way the terrorists would try the same trick. I can believe they'd rent a cargo plane and try it or a thousand other ways to commit acts of terror but the feds are really watching those arabs boarding plans. Then you got the passengers who would kick thier a$$$ if they even tried anything. Hmm get stabbed by a box cutter or slam into a building at 200 mph with 55,000 gallons of jet fuel? Tough choice.

 

[Corn]

Fear. Keep Bush in power.

Sorry, don't buy that conspiracy theory. While it may in fact frighten people, it also has the BOBDN effect of giving the appearance of ineptitude. Bush doesn't want the people to be afraid, that would demonstrate a significant failing on his part.

Nope, he want's the opposite.

The real conspiracy is that Bush has already captured Saddam and Osama and is waiting to play that trump card if need be come election time.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Corn

Fear. Keep Bush in power.

Sorry, don't buy that conspiracy theory. While it may in fact frighten people, it also has the BOBDN effect of giving the appearance of ineptitude. Bush doesn't want the people to be afraid, that would demonstrate a significant failing on his part.

Nope, he want's the opposite.

The real conspiracy is that Bush has already captured Saddam and Osama and is waiting to play that trump card if need be come election time.

Haha that would be sweet Just from a little devil in me perspective because I don't much care or him or his policys.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: Corn

Fear. Keep Bush in power.

Sorry, don't buy that conspiracy theory. While it may in fact frighten people, it also has the BOBDN effect of giving the appearance of ineptitude. Bush doesn't want the people to be afraid, that would demonstrate a significant failing on his part.

Nope, he want's the opposite.

The real conspiracy is that Bush has already captured Saddam and Osama and is waiting to play that trump card if need be come election time.

The BOBDN effect of giving the appearance of ineptitude?

"Box Cutters and Suspicious Notes Found in Plane Lavatories"

This isn't an appearance of ineptitude. These items WERE FOUND on airliners. Reality corn. Not appearance.

Bush IS inept ( and as a bonus he also appears to be inept ).

 

[DealMonkey]

Beyond this little red flag showing the probable ineptitude of TSA, we still have a huge gaping hole in airline security: Only a few percent (1-3%) of cargo shipped on commercial jets are screened for bombs, etc. It seems only a matter of time before a terrorist just ships his bomb in the cargo hold of a commercial airliner. I hope the 250-300 people sitting above at 35,000 feet don't mind too much.

 

[Gaard]

<<Only a few percent (1-3%) of cargo shipped on commercial jets are screened for bombs, etc. >>

Holy cow! Is that true? No way, it can't be. Timebombs would be common. I'd think they'd be anyways.