Bourne man fired for smoking

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Showed up positive for nicotine. Now, while I will agree smoking is unhealthy and I will agree people shouldnt do it (As I am a smoker...ironic) I do not think your employer or government has the right to tell you how to lead your life at such a level.
Next will be alcohol, required attendance to health clubs, no bike riding etc etc.

Article

Bourne Man Fired For Smoking Files Lawsuit
(AP) BOSTON A 30-year-old man who has smoked for more than a decade filed a lawsuit Wednesday against The Scotts Co., alleging the lawn and garden company violated his privacy and civil rights when it fired him because he smokes.

Scott Rodrigues, of Bourne, claims he was fired from the lawn-care job he had for several weeks after a drug test came up positive for nicotine. But he said he wasn't told he would be tested for the substance and was told the company would help him quit.

Rodrigues' lawsuit, filed in Suffolk Superior Court, claims the company violated his rights under the Massachusetts Privacy Statute -- which bars the unreasonable, substantial or serious interference of privacy -- and other state law.

The lawsuit asks for unspecified damages and lawyer's fees.

"In more general terms, this case challenges the right of an employer to control employees' personal lives and activities by prohibiting legal private conduct the employer finds to be dangerous, distasteful or disagreeable," the lawsuit said.

The Scotts Co., a subsidiary of Scotts-Miracle Gro Co. of Marysville, Ohio, instituted a policy early this year forbidding smoking to promote healthy lifestyles and hold down insurance costs. In the 20 states that allow it -- including Massachusetts -- the company refuses to hire smokers and tests all new employees for nicotine, said Jim King, Scotts' vice president for corporate communications and investor relations.

King refused to comment specifically on Rodrigues' case because the company's lawyers hadn't reviewed it, but said all new employees are told they must be tobacco-free and are told they will be tested for nicotine.

"It's on our Web site. It's on our terms of employment when they are hired," King said. "We make it very clear to people what the expectation is related to tobacco use."

But Rodrigues, who recently was laid off from another lawn-care job, said he never knew he would be tested for nicotine; he chewed Nicorette gum on his way to the drug test. His Massachusetts employers also knew he smoked because he had worked for the company previously, he said.

Rodrigues said he never smoked during work or while on break.

"I didn't think you couldn't smoke at home," he said.

Rodrigues' lawyer, Harvey Schwartz, said companies can require drug tests if they believe their employees are using the substances at work or if drug use would seriously interfere with the job. Neither of those are true in this case to justify a test for nicotine, he said.

"Being compelled to provide a urine sample and the information that the sample contains is a violation of his privacy, where it has no relation to his job," Schwartz said.

Schwartz also said the case goes beyond smokers' rights. If this practice stands, employers could dictate other aspects of their workers' lives, he said.

"They can say you don't exercise enough. We want every employee to attend a health club, and we're going to check your attendance record there," Schwartz said.

Nancy Shilepsky, an employment law attorney in Boston, said she had heard of similar lawsuits in the United States. Some states, but not Massachusetts, have instituted laws banning discrimination based on behavior outside work, she said.

"I think, though, our privacy statute is even better than that," she said. "I think it covers more than that."

But Denise Murphy, a Boston attorney who often defends companies in employment lawsuits, said any successful privacy lawsuit must prove the invasion of privacy was unreasonable and unwarranted. In this case, Murphy said, Scotts has a legitimate business reason for not hiring smokers.

"If they do that for everyone, and that's their policy, I don't see anything illegal about it," she said. "Employers have a right to identify what makes a business productive. I'm not saying they have a right to be Big Brother, and I don't think they are."
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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I'm an ex-smoker (7 years now), and I don't think companies should be allowed to dictate what people do in their off-hours if it does not effect their work. Smoking itself IMO has nothing to do with this. I was unaware of this policy of Scotts. I will now be boycotting all their products. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
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This is the America that the 'right' is striving for. All in all they are anti-union, anti-employee, and pro corporation. If you write laws favoring the companies, while taking away rights from the employees. I have stated here before and will state it again, a lot of Idaho companies have you sign a paper that states you can be fired (let go) for any reason, in return you can leave a job for any reason with no notice. Profiling your employees based on their health / lifestyles for cheaper insurance costs fits right in with lowering cost and maximizing profit. :(
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
This is the America that the 'right' is striving for. All in all they are anti-union, anti-employee, and pro corporation. If you write laws favoring the companies, while taking away rights from the employees. I have stated here before and will state it again, a lot of Idaho companies have you sign a paper that states you can be fired (let go) for any reason, in return you can leave a job for any reason with no notice. Profiling your employees based on their health / lifestyles for cheaper insurance costs fits right in with lowering cost and maximizing profit. :(

Hmmm, short on facts much?
Let me point you to this site

Tell me how many Legislators are Democrat versus Republican.
Mass. is *hardly* considered "right".
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
This is the America that the 'right' is striving for. All in all they are anti-union, anti-employee, and pro corporation. If you write laws favoring the companies, while taking away rights from the employees. I have stated here before and will state it again, a lot of Idaho companies have you sign a paper that states you can be fired (let go) for any reason, in return you can leave a job for any reason with no notice. Profiling your employees based on their health / lifestyles for cheaper insurance costs fits right in with lowering cost and maximizing profit. :(
Which explains why the "left" is the primary force behind all the latest crop of anti-smoking laws, right? And this has nothing to do with At-Will employment, that's a whole other issue. Kindly STFU with your ignorant partisan hackery.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,496
558
126
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
This is the America that the 'right' is striving for. All in all they are anti-union, anti-employee, and pro corporation. If you write laws favoring the companies, while taking away rights from the employees. I have stated here before and will state it again, a lot of Idaho companies have you sign a paper that states you can be fired (let go) for any reason, in return you can leave a job for any reason with no notice. Profiling your employees based on their health / lifestyles for cheaper insurance costs fits right in with lowering cost and maximizing profit. :(

The Right?

Massachusetts?

This state is about as left as they come...
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be elgible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be elgible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next? No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation? Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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If they want to persecute smokers then they need to persecute and fire fat people, because if I'm not mistaken heart disease is the number 1 killer in the US and can be brought on by smoking, unhealthy eating, etc. If their real motivation is to cut health care costs then what's fair is fair.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be eligible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next? No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation? Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?

If the company is going to foot any of the bill for health insurance, they should have the right to ensure that the cost does not increase due to poor choices of the employee.

If the employee opts out of any company paid health/life benefits then the company should have no say in the lifestyle off company time.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be elgible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next?

No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation?

Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?

Bahahahahahahaha :laugh:

Awwwwwww look at all the people unhappy with their Political heroes.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,820
2,565
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be elgible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next?

No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation?

Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?

Bahahahahahahaha :laugh:

Awwwwwww look at all the people unhappy with their Political heroes.

What? Do you understand that it is Democrats that are doing this? Do you ever say anything besides "Bahahahahaha" or "heroes"?

Your "heroes" the Democrats are screwing this one big boy.

 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be elgible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next?

No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation?

Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?

Bahahahahahahaha :laugh:

Awwwwwww look at all the people unhappy with their Political heroes.

What? Do you understand that it is Democrats that are doing this? Do you ever say anything besides "Bahahahahaha" or "heroes"?

Your "heroes" the Democrats are screwing this one big boy.
Dave's heros are the anti-government. Party affiliation does not matter - it is who is in charge :(

 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be elgible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next?

No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation?

Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?

Bahahahahahahaha :laugh:

Awwwwwww look at all the people unhappy with their Political heroes.

What? Do you understand that it is Democrats that are doing this? Do you ever say anything besides "Bahahahahaha" or "heroes"?

Your "heroes" the Democrats are screwing this one big boy.
Dave's heros are the anti-government. Party affiliation does not matter - it is who is in charge :(

No, his heroes are communists.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,413
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Originally posted by: Vic
I'm an ex-smoker (7 years now), and I don't think companies should be allowed to dictate what people do in their off-hours if it does not effect their work. Smoking itself IMO has nothing to do with this. I was unaware of this policy of Scotts. I will now be boycotting all their products. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Whatever beef I have against smoking, I have to agree with the notion that companies shouldn't be allowed to dictate what people do in their off-hours if it does not effect their work.
 

Wapp

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2003
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The employers aren't the only ones footing the insurance bill. Employees also cover part of the premium. So it's a win-win for the company and the non-smoking employees.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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BS in my opinion.

How far can you carry this crap? Deciding you might die in a fire because you live too far from a fire hydrant, and are therefore a bad insurance risk?

You get hired to do a job. So long as you can do the job, that should be it. Offering health insurance is just an incentive to keep able workers for going elsewhere for empolyment.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be eligible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next? No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation? Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?

If the company is going to foot any of the bill for health insurance, they should have the right to ensure that the cost does not increase due to poor choices of the employee.

If the employee opts out of any company paid health/life benefits then the company should have no say in the lifestyle off company time.
The company does not "foot the bill." It only looks like that (to some) because the cost is deducted out of the employee's paycheck.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If he wants the privileges of health benefits from the company; then he needs to abide by the company's rules to be elgible for them.

The company has a no-smoking policy for promote a healthy lifestyle and he apparently has ignored it.

What's next?

No alcohol? No fatty foods? Restricted diets? Daily weigh-ins? Mandatory gym membership and participation?

Prohibition of dangerous activities like skiing, mountain biking, or water sports?

Bahahahahahahaha :laugh:

Awwwwwww look at all the people unhappy with their Political heroes.

It's bad enough you always troll, Dave, and worse still that you always lie, but one has to wonder why you can't at least make your trollish lies believable.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: Martin
Well, that's what you get for fostering a society where companies are worshipped.
As opposed to a society where government is worshipped I suppose?
 

newmachineoverlord

Senior member
Jan 22, 2006
484
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Employment drug screens are still legal, and employers can legally fire someone for any reason other than race or gender. If you don't have a problem with drug screens in general, or the right of employers to fire people for reasons not related to job performance, then it doesn't make sense to have a problem with this. There is no legal right to privacy from your employer, only from the government (except as regards your grades and medical history, and they can require you to waive that privacy as a condition of your employment.) You can be fired for having a bumper sticker, drinking the wrong brand of beer, anything they want to fire you for. Selectively firing smokers could reduce healthcare costs for employers that offer health benefits. Furthermore he worked for a lawn and garden company, presumably doing physical labor, which his diminished lung capacity from smoking may have impeded. Smoking is relevant to your job if your job requires physical effort.

That said, If you need a drug test to determine if someone is taking drugs, then it must not be affecting their performance on the job. It makes sense to have post accident testing and testing to get a CDL, but blanket testing is a waste of money. In my opinion drug testing should be illegal except in the case of driving, operating heavy machinery, or performing surgery.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Martin
Well, that's what you get for fostering a society where companies are worshipped.
As opposed to a society where government is worshipped I suppose?

I don't quite see where government comes into this.

EagleKeeper's comment is actually a pretty typical of the American business worship. Try this little social experiment - make a thread in OT about a fictional friend of yours that got fired because he got smoked pot on a friday night and suddenly you'll see nearly everyone say the company was right. This smoking/nicotine trend is fairly new, but give it some time and it'll catch on, just like drug testing exploded in the 90s.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Martin
Well, that's what you get for fostering a society where companies are worshipped.
As opposed to a society where government is worshipped I suppose?

I don't quite see where government comes into this.

EagleKeeper's comment is actually a pretty typical of the American business worship. Try this little social experiment - make a thread in OT about a fictional friend of yours that got fired because he got smoked pot on a friday night and suddenly you'll see nearly everyone say the company was right. This smoking/nicotine trend is fairly new, but give it some time and it'll catch on, just like drug testing exploded in the 90s.

Yes, but pot has the benefit of decades of government propaganda and being illegal. In the meantime, plenty of companies still don't drug test. And then your "business worship" comment just looks like a narrowminded troll. People need to organize in some fashion in order to create. If you want to knock megacorps, that's fine, but to knock all business in general for the fault of the few megacorps is just unreasonable and a worse position than even that of EK's.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,820
2,565
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Originally posted by: Martin
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Martin
Well, that's what you get for fostering a society where companies are worshipped.
As opposed to a society where government is worshipped I suppose?

I don't quite see where government comes into this.

EagleKeeper's comment is actually a pretty typical of the American business worship. Try this little social experiment - make a thread in OT about a fictional friend of yours that got fired because he got smoked pot on a friday night and suddenly you'll see nearly everyone say the company was right. This smoking/nicotine trend is fairly new, but give it some time and it'll catch on, just like drug testing exploded in the 90s.

Pot is illegal and smoking is not, your "social experiment" wouldn't prove a thing.