Bought a third copy of Gyromite today...

[CZroe]

BINGO!

In case it's not clear: some copies of Gyromite have a Family Computer version inside with a 60-to-72 pin adapter. Famicom games don't have a 10NES lockout chip so the adapter needs to add that too.

I had to reverse the black connector so it would reach the card edge connector inside the FC cart (screw mounting tabs prevent you from inserting far enough). Even then it was a very tight fit (cart's opening is just barely too small).

 

[Ichinisan]

We'll have to find a good / convenient way to use that without destroying the original cart.

[2018-07-28 edit]
Recent pics of the 3D-printed shell we made in September or October:

https://imgur.com/a/odRNC4V

 

[AgentNein]

Pro-Tip that's often not thrown around. If you want a better connection and less frustration getting it into a toaster, load your Famicom cartridge and converter onto a Game Genie.

 

[Ichinisan]

Pro-Tip that's often not thrown around. If you want a better connection and less frustration getting it into a toaster, load your Famicom cartridge and converter onto a Game Genie.

Pro tip: Game Genie makes your [original] NES connector worse.

[edit]

That's what people say, anyway. Supposedly, it has a thicker board or puts more pressure on the NES connector, squashing the connector's springy pins a little bit more than a normal game cartridge would. People say the most problematic Nintendo systems probably had a GG inserted for a long period of time. It's probably fine for a non-ZIF connector like the BLW.

Some people install the Famicom adapter into a cartridge that has been cut in half and attach a strap to the cartridge. I'll probably do something like that with the shell from a crappy/worthless game. Would probably need to be a 5-screw shell though.

 

[007ELmO]

Pro tip - Ichinisan needs to sell me one of his Blinking Light Win mod when it comes so both of us can be happy rather than just 1 of us.

 

[TeknoBug]

SMB3 was probably the most fun NES game I've ever played.

 

[Ichinisan]

Pro tip - Ichinisan needs to sell me one of his Blinking Light Win mod when it comes so both of us can be happy rather than just 1 of us.

Yup. ArcadeWorks still needs to deliver the goods. I am waiting with anticipation so I can try to develop an eject mechanism for it...

SMB3 was probably the most fun NES game I've ever played.

Indeed. One of the best platform action games of all time.

 

[gorcorps]

ok

but, why?

 

[Ichinisan]

ok

but, why?

Why did Nintendo put a Famicom game board + adapter inside an NES cart? It's said that Nintendo had to use Famicom production lines to keep up with demand for the Christmas season following the US launch of the NES, so some early games had these inside. The adapter contains a CIC chip to allow it to run on an NES (unlike NES, the Famicom had no copy protection).

 

[gorcorps]

Why did Nintendo put a Famicom game board + adapter inside an NES cart? It's said that Nintendo had to use Famicom production lines to keep up with demand for the Christmas season following the US launch of the NES, so some early games had these inside. The adapter contains a CIC chip to allow it to run on an NES (unlike NES, the Famicom had no copy protection).

Hmm interesting...

2nd why: Why go through this for this version of SMB3? Is it any different (other than language obviously)? Or was that just the cart on hand at the time to prove it worked?

 

[Ichinisan]

Hmm interesting...

2nd why: Why go through this for this version of SMB3? Is it any different (other than language obviously)? Or was that just the cart on hand at the time to prove it worked?

It's just the one that was on-hand. My brother and I do have a variety of Famicom games to use...

That said, there are lots of differences with the Japanese version of SMB3 besides the language. Most are minor. The biggest difference is that Super Mario with an additional powerup (fire, tail, suit) always shrinks to little Mario if you get hit in the Japanese version. The original Super Mario Bros always worked that way in all regions (Fire Mario shrinks when he gets hit). In the USA version of SMB3, you'd return to Super Mario. This difference makes the USA version a lot easier than the Japanese version.

There's also a game-breaking glitch after you use the warp whistle while you're in the canoe from World 3.

Most of the minor differences are covered in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ5kfMeeICc

The video does miss a couple minor differences on the title screen ("TM" is in a different location and the floor is a few pixels higher in the USA version).

 

[DigDog]

so.. won't doing this make you ... A HACKER ?!?!?

 

[ImpulsE69]

Yea, this seems very heavily not sanctioned by Nintendo. You're ruining their IP!

 

[gorcorps]

Why did Nintendo put a Famicom game board + adapter inside an NES cart? It's said that Nintendo had to use Famicom production lines to keep up with demand for the Christmas season following the US launch of the NES, so some early games had these inside. The adapter contains a CIC chip to allow it to run on an NES (unlike NES, the Famicom had no copy protection).

I thought of another question, since you seem to have a lot of the history down.

It seems like the NES cartridges were bigger than necessary given that they were able to fit an entire famicom cartridge with adapter in it. Was that just a happy coincidence they took advantage of, or was the size of the NES carts intentionally made that large to accommodate these early famicom + adapter games?

I imagine because of the addition of the CIC chip the NES carts were always going to be wider due to the extra pins, but they're also a lot taller.

 

[AgentNein]

Pro tip: Game Genie makes your [original] NES connector worse.

[edit]

That's what people say, anyway. Supposedly, it has a thicker board or puts more pressure on the NES connector, squashing the connector's springy pins a little bit more than a normal game cartridge would. People say the most problematic Nintendo systems probably had a GG inserted for a long period of time. It's probably fine for a non-ZIF connector like the BLW.

Some people install the Famicom adapter into a cartridge that has been cut in half and attach a strap to the cartridge. I'll probably do something like that with the shell from a crappy/worthless game. Would probably need to be a 5-screw shell though.

Interesting. I didn't know that! It was just so frustrating getting the cartridge plus the adapter into the toaster. I'll try that other method instead. Thanks!

 

[exdeath]

NES carts are huge because it's a sort of Harvard architecture. An NES cart contains two separate carts in one, a program ROM for the CPU and CHR ROM for the PPU. So you have two independent data buses 8 bits each, two independent address buses of 12-16 bits each, CPU/PPU read/write/select lines, an IRQ line, lockout chip lines. Then you have for the US version the unused expansion port with another 10 lines wired directly into the cart port which is the often blank middle portion separating the the CHR and PRG banks.

SNES on the other hand had actual traditional VRAM and data was loaded to VRAM by the CPU from the cart, in addition to having a multiplexed address and data bus so the carts were much smaller, connector wise.

As far as physical size for NES, they were probably trying to make them look like cassette tapes in the US. They even called them game paks and attempted to avoid any association with words like "cartridge".

Here's a 4 layer parallax demo I wrote for NES some time ago if you have a flash cart. Verified to work on real hardware with smooth splits with no artifacts:

http://forums.nesdev.com/download/file.php?id=69

 

[CZroe]

Yeah. Retailers were soured toward video games after the market crashed in the early '80s and few would be willing to give another platform the shelf space. Nintendo had to market it as something else until it could prove itself as a game console, hence "Entertainment System" and it's hi-tech VCR-like form factor (a lot of fancy VCRs at the time had a pop-up carriage for the tape and a gray/silver finish).

They gave it a bunch of entertainment stuff that no one associated with video games at the time, like an RC robot, a light gun, and no joysticks in sight. They made the carts look substantial like a video cassette. They refused to use any of the terminology that previous consoles used and it worked: toy stores considered it a fancy hi-tech Japanese electronic remote controlled robot toy that connects to the TV.

Nintendo also believed the crash was caused by unconstrained publishing flooding the shelves with bad/controversial games and driving consumers away. They built in a lock-out chip and forced all publishers to come to them for approval, licensing, manufacturing, distribution, etc. This ensured their dominance because they were able to put in anti-competitive terms like "you aren't allowed to publish your games on other platforms if you publish them here." They got away with it for years too because supporting another platform over Nintendo was a death wish ("Sega Master System, who?").

 

[slag]

Yup. ArcadeWorks still needs to deliver the goods. I am waiting with anticipation so I can try to develop an eject mechanism for it...



Indeed. One of the best platform action games of all time.

It was a good game, but I think SMB2 was the cat's meow for me. The whole dream immersion, awesome soundtrack, new creatures, deserts, digging, ice worlds, etc. The whole game was so different from 1 and so awesome.

 

[007ELmO]

Slag, the issue is Nintendo stole Doki Doki Panic and rebranded it SMB2. Hence, why it was so different.

 

[CZroe]

Slag, the issue is Nintendo stole Doki Doki Panic and rebranded it SMB2. Hence, why it was so different.

Well, they didn't exactly "steal" Heart-pounding Panic. It was their game in the first place. The original characters were created for some Japanese Fuji Network Television event that wouldn't have any relevance to gamers in the rest of the world. Nintendo's game was great and deserved to be released, no question. The issue is that Mario was tacked on instead of some new characters. It wasn't very Mario-like for the time but, well, Super Mario 64 wasn't either (and Galaxy, for that matter). SMB2 stuff persists in every Mario game since.

 

[slag]

I love reading your nintendo knowledge. We should have a sub forum under console gaming specifically for Nintendo trivia and info.

 

[CZroe]

I love reading your nintendo knowledge. We should have a sub forum under console gaming specifically for Nintendo trivia and info.

I'd never dig my way out!

 

[007ELmO]

The sound effects in that game were horrible in comparison to SMB2. OK, I didn't realize doki doki panic was a disc based game!

 

[Ichinisan]

Yeah. SMB2 had a lot of little refinements over Doki Doki Panic. Animated turnips, vines, and cherries look way better.

Since the Japanese version was on a Famicom Disk System diskette, it could save progress. The game didn't let you switch characters between levels, if I understand correctly. It saves your progress through the game with each character, so the game isn't really complete until you've gone through every stage with each character.

I'm not sure, but I don't think DDP has the hidden warps found in SMB2.

 

[CZroe]

Yeah. SMB2 had a lot of little refinements over Doki Doki Panic. Animated turnips, vines, and cherries look way better.

Since the Japanese version was on a Famicom Disk System diskette, it could save progress. The game didn't let you switch characters between levels, if I understand correctly. It saves your progress through the game with each character, so the game isn't really complete until you gone through every stage with each character.

I'm not sure, but I don't think DDP has the hidden warps found in SMB2.

You couldn't even run! That was another addition from the Mario side of things. There was so much extra polish to the Mario version that it became the standard version in Japan as well (sold as "Super Mario USA").