Bought a Gainward GeForce Ti4600 750 XP Golden Sample...Should I have bought the Radeon 9700?

[Shagga]

I'm one of those people that tend to pay top whack for hardware as soon as it comes out in the UK and "ALWAYS" in the aftermath feel a sense of stupidity when only weeks later the price drops significantly. A few examples of this are that I paid Approx £500 for a Pentium 2 300MHz, £404 for my GeForce 3 and recently I paid, I can?t remember exactly but it was in the region of £500 for my P4 2.4GHz.

Now I have been itching to buy a GeForce Ti4600 since it?s arrival and have been able to put it off for quite a few months. <taps himself on the back and accepts the praise from fellow anandtechers>?I know I know, it?s been tough but I have managed to cope nonetheless, even with all these huge benchmark figures you guyz keep posting. I?m used to being near the top of the pile in terms of performance related PC and have been mid point until now. I really don't know why, I have nothing to prove. Perhaps just a weird self-satisfaction thing...

The Ti4600 has dropped about £100 since it's arrival over here in the UK although there is still the ?Pounds for Dollar? comparison with the States. Now I vowed to hold off and not purchase a Ti4600 but wait for the NV30. But alas not as I have failed and yet again have been drawn into the devils garden of temptation. Anyway I cracked under the pressure and can no longer bear to be but a mere mortal in ?Benchmark Land? and have purchased a shiny new Gainward 750XP Golden Sample (I am so one of technologies Biatches) with a view to buying and NV30 a month or two after it arrives on the shelves. Why I just don?t know, I really don?t! :frown:

Anyway the point of this is that should I have gotten myself a Radeon 9700 Pro instead and only for a little more £££. I went for the nVidia offering for a few reasons, but the main one at this time was "better the devil you know" and the pending release of the NV30. (Ti4600 may be easier to sell at a later date. Mind you I say that, but it will sit in a box just like my GF3 will I'm sure until it's worthless)

I just thought I?d give you guyz chance to ridicule me for being weak and this post is in an attempt to justify to myself that I am a hardware junkie but won?t really admit it.

[edit]

Sp..

 

[BFG10K]

Anyway the point of this is that should I have gotten myself a Radeon 9700 Pro instead and only for a little more £££.

Yes you definitely should have. I've just upgrade from a Ti4600 to a Radeon 9700 Pro and there's just no contest between the cards. The 9700 utterly blows the Ti4600 out of the water in terms of speed and image quality.

 

[kylebisme]

ya defnealty, if you can take it back do so right away and get the radeon. the 9700 is just obsurdly fast and opens up a whole new world of gameing at high res with lots of anti-alising and anstropic filtering to boot. also as BFG10K pointed out already, the image quality is considrably superior to any nvidia based card; that is in both 2d and 3d, colors are richer details are more defined and the anti-alinsing looks so much nicer than nvidias too. i swore up and down nvidia was the way to go not to long ago but even with the various driver issues with the 9700 has its an absolute beast, and a beauty at the same time. i honestly doubt i will ever go back to nvidia even if the nv30 does out preform others offerings, that is unless nvidia at least trys to be competitive in the image quality department.

 

[theNEOone]

Yah, go switch. But not becausse the image quality is considrably superior to any nvidia based card; that is in both 2d and 3d, colors are richer details are more defined . **CRAP**

It's a better card, but nothing revolutionary. Still, I'd make the switch, but maybe not just yet. There aren't any games out that the 4600 can't handle at 1280x1024 like a beast and definitely playable at 1200x1600. If you really have some control, return your 4600, and hold out on the 9700 for maybe 2 or 3 weeks. No news from NVIDIA about the next gen card, so you'll be safe going for 9700 and still get a decent price.

 

[BFG10K]

But not becausse the image quality is considrably superior to any nvidia based card; that is in both 2d and 3d, colors are richer details are more defined . **CRAP**

It's not crap at all. The image quality of the 9700 is absolutely superb - from anisotropic filtering to FSAA to colour richness it blows the Ti4600 away. I have never seen a video card exhibit such high image quality and rendering quality in all my years of using them.

After seeing a 9700 the Ti4600 can perhaps be described as having a dull plastic look when performing 3D rendering.

 

[eno]

Just a thought. The fella that mentioned the Ti4600 can handle everything at 1280. I disagree, I just received my Ti4400 today and swapped out my gf2 ti500. I was very disappointed to find running Unreal2003 hardly made any difference. I get in the 30's to 40's in Unreal with this card. Now this does make me think maybe its my systems but the card acts the same way with older games like CS. With my GF2 and 4x AA my FPS would be at 85FPS(with VS on) and drop to 42.5 in large map areas. Well what do you know , the Geforce4 does the same thing with 4xAA on. I do have my card OC to 305/625mhz.

SOyo Dragon Plus MB kt266
1600+ Oc 1900+ (150fsb/10.5)
1 gig Mushkin PC2100
Leadtek Ti4400 OC from 275/550 to 305/625
Maxtor 40gig 7200
Audigy

I am very disappointed with the lack of muscle with AA on or off with this game. I sure hope I did something wrong with settings cause this card can not handle this game very as of now. Hope it is my fault.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: theNEOone
[/i]. **CRAP**

man realy, do a side by side comparison with the best image quality nvidia card you can find an a ati 9700 and then feel free to come back and say you are sorry. if you have already seen the two side by side and can not see a difference then i know a good optomitrist i would be happy to hook you up with.

nvidia based cards have always had sub par image quality some realy bad and some just not quite as good as the compitition, but they were quite a bit faster wich made up for it when it came to high res, high detail gameing. not to mention it made nvida cards look beter in reviews were image qualty is hard to express but benchmarks are hard to ignore. however, the times they are a changin and ati is not only the fastest but looks whole lot nicer while speeding along. granted its hard to say if the second party manufatures will have the same image quality standards but i assure you that the buit by ati card in my box right now looks noticably beter than my voodoo5 does, and my voodoo5 looks noticably beter than my visiontek gefoce3, on top of that my visiontek geforce3 looks just about as good if not a great deal beter than every other nvidia based card i have used. if immage quality is not important to you then its not a good reason for you to get a 9700, however if you would like a sharper and richer picture as well as all the other benifits the 9700 has to offer then you are in for a treat.

 

[Shagga]

I guessed you all might say, bin the Ti4600 and go for the Radeon 9700 and I kind of knew I should have gone for it if I'm honest.

I think the things that threw me was there was rumour that the 9700 were having problems running AGP 8x but that seems to have been quashed by ATI. Anyhow my mobo is only AGP 4x so it didn't really matter. It just affects me if I upgrade the mobo in the future. I hope ASUS manufactures a mobo with AGP 8x and I can still use my RDRAM, which was purchased by re-mortgaging my house!

The other reason was that I wanted perhaps to limit the cost as I fully intend on getting the NV30 when it arrives and the Ti4600 is just a stop gap. I also just completed a GHOST image of my Hard Drive as I have been having terrible problems with WinXP and the SP1 and included in that backup are nVidia's detonators. I don't really want to tempt fate with driver conflicts also.

I would also have to agree that ATI have insofar as I am aware, insisted that Manufacturers of graphic cards which intend on using ATI technology use certain filters on their boards, and nVidia however leave that up to the Manufacturer, hence part of the reason why nVidia?s 2D quality is not as good as ATI's. I too can see the difference when comparing. This is not the reason I bought the Ti4600. I do accept that the Radeon 9700 is far superior in terms of speed features and with the benefit of hindsight and a little more thought and a little less impatience I should perhaps of gone with the 9700. Damn...

You have said send it back and change it, but I'm too impatient and will give the Ti4600 a go. I always wanted to see the nVidia Wolfie demo running on a GF4 card even though it's quite impressive on my GF3.

 

[theNEOone]

No, I have not done a side by side comparison of the 4600 and 9700. I've only compared screen shots produced by the two cards. Yes, there is a difference but definitely not enough to warrante the type of praise you guys are giving. Even then, you're staring at still picture. Do you really think that you're going to tell the difference between the two when your jumping around and shooting people in a huge brawl??? Common. If the difference in image quality were so great, then way aren't people flocking towards the 9700 like crazed lunatics? I always heard about ATI's superior 2d quality and I really really really wanted good 2D. So what did I do? I got an 8500. Unfortunately, my goddamn gf2 on analog looked the same as the freakin 8500 on dvi output (yes, I'm using an LCD, not a crt w/ a dvi to analog converter)....it's a good thing I kept the receipt.

Anyway, don't bash me. I told the dood to do the switch. So get off my case.

 

[AnAndAustin]

I hear this all of the time. GF3 cards were a big improvement over GF2 cards because of 3D speed and features but IQ stayed pretty stagnant. GF4 cards have significantly improved speed, IQ (stability and clarity of image as opposed to AA, Aniso etc) and dual monitor support with the GF4MX replacing the GF2 and the GF4TI replacing the GF3. It does depend upon what you use your PC for, how susceptible you are to IQ, your monitor and esp what res and refresh rates you use.

The GF4TI cards offer IQ at least on par with Rad8500 which is way better than GF3 or GF2 offerings. Also IQ now varies very little on GF4TI cards between manus, the days of having to buy Leadtek or Gainward for the enhanced IQ are gone. If you don't mind flaky drivers and GF3 level perf the over-priced Matrox Parhelia is the king of IQ, I would expect the Rad9700 to be the second best with the Rad8500/9000 and GF4TI cards pretty close behind, certainly for the vast majority of users. In terms of AA the Rad8500/9000 cards suck while the GF3 and GF4TI cards perf very well with 2xAA or QxAA although 4xAA still kills these cards. Rad9700 is hugely better and 4xAA and even 6xAA come at VERY little perf hit. For Aniso the Rad8500/9000 only take a small hit but the quality has always seemed inferior to GF3/GF4TI, the Rad9700 also remedies this and really is untouched for 3D perf, AA, Ansio ... if you can afford the price tag.

So I guess I'm just trying to say that saying 'all nVidias cards have awful IQ' is very inaccurate, even to those who are very knowledgable and sensitive it's a close call between GF4TI and Rad8500/9000 cards although I do expect the Rad9700 to make IQ even better you'd be talking about running the Windows Desktop above 1280x1024x32 @ 75Hz if not 1600x1200x32 @ 75Hz for most people to really see any diff. For 3D perf, AA and Aniso the GF4TI cards are good but the Rad9700 is clearly in a class of its own ... Shagga would certainly have been better off going for a GF4TI4200 or 4400 as a stop gap card, but the 4600 is cool anyway ... I just wish I had his money LOL!

 

[Smilin]

I am very disappointed with the lack of muscle with AA on or off with this game. I sure hope I did something wrong with settings cause this card can not handle this game very as of now. Hope it is my fault.

Set your sound to 3D-Software. You'll get another 20fps.

 

[Mem]

Shagga would certainly have been better off going for a GF4TI4200 or 4400 as a stop gap card, but the 4600 is cool anyway ... I just wish I had his money LOL!

I was going to say Shagga should of went for a GF4 Ti4200 and decide between the NV30 & ATI 9700 later ,by then the 9700 will be cheaper even here in the UK and he can then decide which one is better on price/perfomance,I`ve decided to wait even though I`ve the money available for an ATI 9700 .

Christmas will soon be here.

 

[kylebisme]

heNEOone,
im sorry i didnt mean to come off as bashing you, i just got a little defensive at you calling my statement crap. as for not noticeing the diffence in game, my favorate game is cs and while its old and 16bit i notice the difference all the time, i often find myself stoping at a quite moment and just looking around to get my fill of how much beter color this card has. honestly, even the post screen is noticably crisper with this card than my visiontek. granted this is on a workstation grade montor here, an ibm p260 (21" trinitron), however im sure the difference is noticeable on lesser monitors.

AnAndAustin,
thanks for the info, i have honestly not seen a geforce4 ti in action but was speaking from my experiance with a wide variaty from geforce3ti's down to oldschool tnts were image quality was anywere from noticably sub par to absolutely horid.


Mem,
as for holding out untell christmas, i would like wadger that we are more likely to get a lump of coal than an nv30. assuming that is the case i doubt the 9700 will fall much in price, hence you wont save much money but you will waste a few months that you could have been enjoying the card. granted thats all speculation but i figured i would point it out as it was my reasoning for going for the 9700 when i did.

 

[Mem]

hence you wont save much money but you will waste a few months that you could have been enjoying the card. granted thats all speculation but i figured i would point it out as it was my reasoning for going for the 9700 when i did.

TheSnowman,I look at it this way,there`ll be more options on the graphic cards front with or without the NV30, also drivers will be more mature for the 9700 and other cards. I`ll be looking for the best prices at Christmas time so will make sure I`m getting a good deal .It`s not always wise to buy the latests and greatest cards straight of the block especially in the UK.

 

[eno]

I did turn on the Software sound and disabled the Hardware+EAX to only see less than 10 fps improvement tops. Am going to study up more tonight when I get home and try to find some tweaks or find out what others are doing with their similar spec'd systems that are getting 70+fps. Sure hope I didn't waste this 195$ on a card that is stronger than GF2 but doesn't do much in the new game engines.

 

[Ben88]

How can someone afford a $250 dollar card as a "stepping stone" for a few months. That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

 

[gregor7777]

Originally posted by: Ben88
How can someone afford a $250 dollar card as a "stepping stone" for a few months. That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Some people have money. Not me though.

I keep up by trading and selling my hardware on the forums every few months and that way the upgrade is usually only ~20% of what it would cost me.

 

[BFG10K]

If you don't mind flaky drivers and GF3 level perf the over-priced Matrox Parhelia is the king of IQ, I would expect the Rad9700 to be the second best with the Rad8500/9000 and GF4TI cards pretty close behind,

There is nothing that can touch a Radeon 9700's anisotropic filtering and FSAA image quality, especially not the Parhelia with its half-baked implementations. Once you see the image quality of the 9700 with respect to anisotropic filtering and FSAA there is just no going back to any card.

 

[Shagga]

I was going to say Shagga should of went for a GF4 Ti4200 and decide between the NV30 & ATI 9700 later

Yeah, I thought about a 4200 or even a 4400 but I just thought what the hell. I couldn't remember which 4200 it was that overclocked like mad to almost 4600 speeds so rather than risk it I went for the 4600.

How can someone afford a $250 dollar card as a "stepping stone" for a few months. That seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Well, it's quite simple really. I have no debt, no credit cards, just a mortgage and all the money I earn is mine and half of it is dissposable income (well my wife would argue it's hers aswell ). Getting a good salary is also helpfull. I don't smoke and only occasionally drink to, so thats why.

 

[kylebisme]

Mem, i see you point espialy the living in england part. i lived in germany for a few years and recall the horable price differance on various goods compared to the amercian market, never actualy made it over to your island but i can imagine that its prety similar there. here in america im guessing the 9700 wont drop more than 50$ by cristmas and assumeing the nv30 doesnt come out it will still be the only high end card around, i wich case i could save 50$ if i waited but that would only be like geting payed 17$ a month to miss out on such a great card, thats not a good deal imho.

 

[BigRigDriver]

I will never ever buy any ATI product no matter what the scores & benchmarks are!!!

 

[Shagga]

I will never ever buy any ATI product no matter what the scores & benchmarks are!!!

You should never say never!...

 

[Technonut]

There is nothing that can touch a Radeon 9700's anisotropic filtering and FSAA image quality, especially not the Parhelia with its half-baked implementations. Once you see the image quality of the 9700 with respect to anisotropic filtering and FSAA there is just no going back to any card.

I agree 100%..

 

[AnAndAustin]

No doubt at all there, so do I. It was the Parhelia's '2D' image quality (quality and clarity of final signal sent to monitor) rather than it's Aniso and technicaly brilliant but troublesome Fragment AA technique. When it comes to superb 3D perf, lots of great Aniso, stacks of AA and of course the famous Radeon '2D' image quality the Rad9700 is truly in a class of its own.

 

[jitspoe]

Originally posted by: BigRigDriver
I will never ever buy any ATI product no matter what the scores & benchmarks are!!!

I made the mistake of not following that rule. Now I've been sitting around for 2 weeks waiting for bios/drivers updates. And the rumors about it not working with AGP 8x are true. There's a huge thread about it here. Some people have gotten it to work. I still haven't. I plan to stick with nVidia from now on. Hopefully ATI will fix up their act though. It'd be great to have some good competition going on -- that means faster and cheaper cards for the rest of us.