Bottleneck question

[49erinnc]

Currently stuck with an Athlon 2200 and 9800Pro (r360 XT version). Looking to possibly jump up to the next line X800/6800 series in the near future. Will those cards be held back any with my current CPU? Will jumping up to a Mobile 2500+/2600+/2800+ really make THAT big of a difference in the performance of the video card or does the game itself play more of a role in CPU usage? I just don't want to shell out for the video card and not really get a big performance boost due to my current CPU.

Please keep in mind that I'm NOT looking to jump up to the 64 line of CPU's yet because my mobo only supports Socket A and I'm not in a position to do that much of an overhaul anytime soon. So please no suggestions of shelling out for a better upgrade. I'd like to limit it to just the video card unless the 2200+ is going to hinder it.

Thanks

 

[kurt454]

The 2200 is going to hinder it in some games. Personally, I would stick with the 9800 Pro with your current setup, and maybe wait to to do a bigger upgrade down the road. Like an Athlon 64 and PCI-e motherboard+video card.

I'd keep the 9800 Pro for now.

 

[Matthias99]

Frankly, I think people blow the whole "CPU limitation" thing WAY out of proportion. You'll still see a BIG improvement with an X800/6800-class card. Your benchmark scores might not be as high, but you'll be able to turn up the resolution and AA/AF settings a *lot* higher with a faster video card. You will see a further boost in some newer games with a faster CPU.

 

[bradyapba]

Matthias is spot on. CPU limitation on a GPU is a figment of must peoples imaginations, will it limit it, a tiny bit? Sure. Will you get a huge jump in performance? You sure will.And I have hard proof.

I had a set up, just like yours.... an Athlon XP chip 2200, 1 gig or ram, ti4200 video card in it. my 3dmark03 score was about 1600... I decided to put together a new system, Athlon 64 3200, dual channel ram, etc.... but the Video Card came in 1st. A PNY 6800NU. So im thinking... hmmm, well, lets test it in the old system.. see what happens. 3dMark03 scored jumped to 8,500. 8500 vs 1600. In the old system, it made a HUGE difference, I could turn all the eye candy on, max out settings, in everything, doom 3, HL2, Far Cry, etc. Life was good.

Built the new system a couple of weeks later. My 3dmark03 score improved to 9400.

So putting the new VC in the old system got me a 530% increase in my 3dmark03 score, and the new system, gave me about a 12% boost.

So, a new VC will make a HUGE difference in a system like yours.

And to even further the point, I put my old VC in the new system. 3dmark03 score went from 1600, to 1650. So if all you can afford is a new MOBO/Processor, and have to keep your old VC, youe not going to see ANY improvement.

Get a new VC, it will make a world of difference.

But you may want to run 3dmark03 on your system 1st, see what kind of score your going to get.. and then you can compare it to what you can expect from a 6800NU. And you will get an even higher score with a GT.

Hope this helps.

Chris

 

[49erinnc]

Thanks...that was very helpful. My only issue now is that I'm not prepared to upgrade to a PCI-E compatible mobo so I'd have to get an AGP card. I know this isn't really a bad thing but it means that I'll be upgrading my VC yet again when/if I make the switch to PCI-E. Is the switch to PCI-E really that important right now? If I bought a new video card now, I'd likely be stuck with it for at least another year. Is that too long to hold off on going over to PCI-E?

BTW...that's a helluva jump in your 3DMark03 score after switching over to the new VC. Very encouraging in terms of what I actually need to upgrade.

 

[mrc777]

get a 2500-m and overclock it to a 3200
or even better, get an a64!

 

[kurt454]

Originally posted by: bradyapba
Matthias is spot on. CPU limitation on a GPU is a figment of must peoples imaginations, will it limit it, a tiny bit? Sure. Will you get a huge jump in performance? You sure will.And I have hard proof.

I had a set up, just like yours.... an Athlon XP chip 2200, 1 gig or ram, ti4200 video card in it. my 3dmark03 score was about 1600... I decided to put together a new system, Athlon 64 3200, dual channel ram, etc.... but the Video Card came in 1st. A PNY 6800NU. So im thinking... hmmm, well, lets test it in the old system.. see what happens. 3dMark03 scored jumped to 8,500. 8500 vs 1600. In the old system, it made a HUGE difference, I could turn all the eye candy on, max out settings, in everything, doom 3, HL2, Far Cry, etc. Life was good.

Built the new system a couple of weeks later. My 3dmark03 score improved to 9400.

So putting the new VC in the old system got me a 530% increase in my 3dmark03 score, and the new system, gave me about a 12% boost.

So, a new VC will make a HUGE difference in a system like yours.

And to even further the point, I put my old VC in the new system. 3dmark03 score went from 1600, to 1650. So if all you can afford is a new MOBO/Processor, and have to keep your old VC, youe not going to see ANY improvement.

Get a new VC, it will make a world of difference.

But you may want to run 3dmark03 on your system 1st, see what kind of score your going to get.. and then you can compare it to what you can expect from a 6800NU. And you will get an even higher score with a GT.

Hope this helps.

Chris

3dmark03 and 3dmark05 stress the gpu of the card. That is why why you don't see much of a change in score going from a xp 2200+ to an Athlon64. Real world gaming needs alot more cpu (depending on the game). People should not put a whole lot of faith in synthetic benchmarks.

Yes, you can put a top end card in a older rig. You will be able to user a higher resolution, and more AA/AF. The MINIMUM fps will still be bad in alot of games because the vid card is waiting on the cpu to catch up. He does not have a bad card now. Just my $.02

 

[BobDaMenkey]

It'd make a big difference to go to a better video card, but at the moment your rig isn't too shabby at all. If you're happy with the performance, then don't bother with it and just wait a while more to upgrade.

There's about a 10-15fps average difference between my CS:S and my friends CS:S on a 3200+ A64, everything else being pretty much the same.

It's not that bad IMO, and your rig is in good shape.

 

[Munky]

While your current setup is not bad at all, if you're gonna upgrade, get the video card. It plays a much bigger role in modern games than the cpu, especially if you use AA/AF and high resolutions. And yes, an A64 will do better than an AXP with all other things being equal, but you will still see a huge improvement even with a AXP + 6800gt.

As far as pcie/agp goes, if you were building a new system, go with pcie because it's the future platform. Since you're not, then get a agp card that give you a good performance for the money, and for agp the 6800gt is the best high-end deal there is. That way when you do build a new rig in like a year, you can sell the old card, and not lose too much money.

 

[49erinnc]

Yeah, I have NO complaints with my current setup but that's based on playing games like Far Cry, D3 and HL2 at 10x7 no AA/AF. My concern about the upgrade was just for some of the releases scheduled to come out in 2005 (BF2, HL2 Expansion, FEAR, etc.). I'm not one of those that has to have the maximum FPS to enjoy the game but I do want "good" performance.

I guess I may ride out what I have until I come across a game that I'm just not happy with the performance I get. At that point, I may think about a faster CPU and VC. And maybe by then, the prices on the 6800 line will be down a little in price. I think that I'm really going to want to get on the PCI-E bandwagon at some point so it may be a bad idea to get new AGP video card now anyway if I'll only be getting rid of it by Christmas.

 

[bradyapba]

The CPU does not effect the FPS that much either... my FPS in HL2 in my old system, from the ti4200 to the 6800 went from mid 30's, to mid 60's on avg... the GPU wasn't waiting for my cpu to catch up.

And as far as PCI-e goes, its really a useless slot at this point. No video card works better in PCI-e vs AGP. Adventually the cards will be better, but most reivews say thats 2 years away before the PCI-e becomes better than AGP.

Think about it this way.... 90% of all MOBO's out there are AGP... why would video card makers not want to hit that target audience for upgrades?


Going to an new chip and mobo, is really not going to show you any game performance, a 6600gt, 6800, or 6800gt will. You wont be getting rid of the card by christmas... you should be set for 2 years.

 

[Jeff7181]

Not too many games are requiring a lot more CPU power... and they won't until sometime next year when games make use of dual cores and big improvments to physics are made because of the new PPU's that are being developed. The big thing right now is shaders... and to run a game that uses shaders heavily, you need a powerful video card. So yeah... I agree with everyone who said go ahead and get a video card and don't worry about your CPU being a bottleneck. Worst case scenario, it performs the same as your setup does now, but with 6XAA and 16XAF.

 

[Munky]

Heh, if you play at 10x7 then the 9800p is still good for that. I'm using an XP-M 2.5ghz + 9800p @450/365, and I play HL2 and Farcry on High settings with AA/AF at 10x7. Since I got a 17" CRT monitor, I don't need really high resolutions, but if I was going to upgrade the video card, I'd get the 6800gt, (or maybe the aiw x800xt with that rebate they have going on). Anyway if you want a cheap upgrade, buy a vf700 cooler for that 9800p and OC it (but that will void you warranty)

 

[49erinnc]

With it being the r360, it flashed right off the bat as a 9800XT and I have it OC'd as much as stock cooling will allow. I don't really care to mod the cooling since I haven't encountered a need to push the card any harder with ATI Tool.

I think I'll probably wait another month or two and hope the prices on the 6800 come down a little. There are some good deals already but I think deals will continue to improve on those cards but probably not more than $20, if that. I'd like to at least run BF2 on my current card just so I can have a comparison after upgrading.

Just glad to know I MAY be okay with my current CPU, at least until I'm ready to make a major overhaul once going PCI-E warrants the other changes I'll have to make.