Boston: Students illegally rally in hopes of living American Dream

[MJinZ]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...gally_rally_in_hope_of_living_american_dream/

"Oliveira, 22, a native of Brazil, said he has been in the United States without legal papers since he was 8. The stocky former football player went to high school on Cape Cod and hoped to join the US Navy. But immigrants here illegally are barred from joining the military."

"“We want the opportunity; that’s it,’’ Oliveira said before he delivered his speech. “We don’t want a handout, just the opportunity to prove ourselves.’’"

Thoughts:

1) Plenty of "illegals" came to American Soil in the past.

2) Plenty of legals came as well

3) If America was founded on Illegal Immigration, does that make it ethically OK?

Other thoughts on the guys' story above:

1) You already got a handout by attending public schools and enjoying public services.

2) Opportunities are here but they are not limitless, while Mexicans seem to pop them out like they are.

 

[Jaskalas]

Regarding illegal immigration and personal sob stories.

There's nothing wrong with an individual, I'd want them to be legalized and succeed. It's when we have to do this for TENS of MILLIONS with literally no end in sight that we've come to a problem. At some point we must draw the line and say no more.

 

[nonlnear]

I wouldn't have a problem with letting illegals join the military if they were brought here by their parents while minors and meet the entrance requirements. I think it might be prudent to put them on a slower path to citizenship than other foreign enlistees so that they wouldn't be eligible to sponsor their parents quite so quickly. Maybe make them re-up before being eligible for citizenship, or ten years after exiting if they only do one tour.

 

[yllus]

Serving in the military would be a pretty good path to citizenship.

 

[nonlnear]

Serving in the military would be a pretty good path to citizenship.

Serving in the military IS a pretty good path to citizenship - for the many MANY immigrants who qualify for this path.

 

[MJinZ]

Serving in the military would be a pretty good path to citizenship.

Let's make all the illegals serve in the military and go to war in Iraq.

Solves a lot of problems doesn't it?

 

[Double Trouble]

Serving in the military would be a pretty good path to citizenship.

Having a bunch of illegals who don't speak english in the military is a terrible idea. The military should be an elite force of people who want to be there, not a holding place for any riffraff that thinks it's the only way for them to get into the country.

These idiot protesters should be immediately picked up and deported. Not only are they here illegally using up resources (like public school, ER resources etc), but they have the gall to flaunt their illegal status and get angry and insult law abiding Americans who want to see the rule of law. :twisted: Boot them all.

 

[MotF Bane]

We should have arrested all of those fuckers right then and there.

 

[Moonbeam]

What America needs is resourceful people. I think, therefore, that anybody who can live here illegally for say 5 years and not get caught or starve to death should be automatically made a citizen.

 

[yllus]

Having a bunch of illegals who don't speak english in the military is a terrible idea. The military should be an elite force of people who want to be there, not a holding place for any riffraff that thinks it's the only way for them to get into the country.

So long as they all speak one common language - Spanish - does it matter?

The military has never been a highly literate, education-minded group. I think you're right in that it shouldn't turn into a green card factory, but it could (a la French Foreign Legion) be used to turn some portion of illegal immigration into a win-win.

 

[EagleKeeper]

What America needs is resourceful people. I think, therefore, that anybody who can live here illegally for say 5 years and not get caught or starve to death should be automatically made a citizen.

How about using public services?

No way should any illegal be granted immediate citizenship - again you are rewarding them for breaking the law and not following proper procedures.

 

[HumblePie]

3) If America was founded on Illegal Immigration, does that make it ethically OK?

I take exception to this statement. America was not founded on illegal immigration in any sense of the word. For a long time America did have open immigration, which meant that anyone that could make it here was welcome. That meant that all immigration was legal. Once it was determined enough was enough, it became illegal not to go through proper channels to immigrate here. That was well after America was founded.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Where is ICE during these rallys?

Or does Free Speech trump ILLEGALITY

 

[Linflas]

I love this new tactic of claiming that America was founded on illegal immigration. You guys just keep running with that stupidity, it is good for a laugh. Exactly what sovereign nation’s borders did we cross over as part of "illegal immigration"? If we go with that theory to its logical conclusion almost every nation on the planet is founded on illegal immigration despite the fact that the notion of the modern nation state didn't really evolve until the 18th century.

 

[tk149]

While I haven't read the "Dream Act" referenced in the article, I suspect that it doesn't say anything about REPAYING us for the use of schools, health care, etc.

 

[PJABBER]

So long as they all speak one common language - Spanish - does it matter?

The military has never been a highly literate, education-minded group. I think you're right in that it shouldn't turn into a green card factory, but it could (a la French Foreign Legion) be used to turn some portion of illegal immigration into a win-win.

You can get a better idea of who the military recruits here -

Army Recruiting FAQ

You can be a non-American enlistee, but you must first already be a legal resident of the U.S. There are some pilot programs for critical skills that were recently started, check out the above link for details.

As to education, I would venture that the military is one of the most education oriented professions in the U.S.

Education is supported by recruitment bonuses, in service training and formal degree programs, post service education programs and systemic support for service members to continue their educations throughout their lives and careers.

You may only need a high school diploma or GED to enlist (officers need a BA) but if you want to pursue college or advanced degrees it is hard to find any other institution so supportive in terms of hard cash and making time available.

As far as setting up an American Foreign Legion, well, we are kind of unique in having an extraordinarily diverse military, culturally speaking, with a complete emphasis on qualitative warfare.

There is no pressing need for cannon fodder, ie why the French, British and the Spanish set up their foreign/colonial units, that, by the way, may also have a strong home country representation in their ranks these days. Not to knock those fighting units, they have evolved into being fairly competent, but setting up an equivalent for the U.S. is a no-go.

 

[rudder]

Serving in the military would be a pretty good path to citizenship.

http://www.fallenheroesmemorial.com/oif/profiles/gutierrezjose.html

This guy was an illegal immigrant. Serving in the military is a quick path to citizenship. But when you look at all the amnesty rallies where the illegals are waving Mexican flags, you have to wonder how many truly love America enough to go join the Marines. Or the ones who spit and threw beers at the Marines in L.A. who were there to bear the American flag during the singing of the national anthem prior to the US vs Mexico soccer game.

Google Jose Gutierrez and you can read some of his bios. He truly cared about the U.S. and was thankful for what American had given him.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Serving in the military IS a pretty good path to citizenship - for the many MANY immigrants who qualify for this path.

Yep, my former neighbor's daughter is an English instructor in the Navy that teaches Hispanics who are gaining citizenship via military service. But, then again, they are legal immigrants.

 

[MJinZ]

I love this new tactic of claiming that America was founded on illegal immigration. You guys just keep running with that stupidity, it is good for a laugh. Exactly what sovereign nation’s borders did we cross over as part of "illegal immigration"? If we go with that theory to its logical conclusion almost every nation on the planet is founded on illegal immigration despite the fact that the notion of the modern nation state didn't really evolve until the 18th century.

Mmm Candy Coat.

Fact is, America is built on invaders from Europe. That's what people refer to as "illegal immigration".

Now, America is being invaded by Mexicans.

What's the difference?

Well, actually, the irony is that Mexicans are partially Native American, so Native Americans are invading their land... back...

 

[Linflas]

Mmm Candy Coat.

Fact is, America is built on invaders from Europe. That's what people refer to as "illegal immigration".

Now, America is being invaded by Mexicans.

What's the difference?

Well, actually, the irony is that Mexicans are partially Native American, so Native Americans are invading their land... back...

And the people the "invaders from Europe" pushed aside came from? Those Anglo-Saxons from England came from? We can play this game all the way back to the limits of recorded history much like we can play the slavery game from today's version in some African countries all the way back through history. The reality is that people with a technological edge and dynamic growing populations have always pushed aside "native populations" when it suited them to do so. Trying to make it equivalent to people crossing a border illegally to obtain work and cash to send back to their families is silly in my opinion. When the Mexican Army comes in and tries to take over the US Southwest then you can play the colonial card.

 

[MJinZ]

And the people the "invaders from Europe" pushed aside came from? Those Anglo-Saxons from England came from? We can play this game all the way back to the limits of recorded history much like we can play the slavery game from today's version in some African countries all the way back through history. The reality is that people with a technological edge and dynamic growing populations have always pushed aside "native populations" when it suited them to do so. Trying to make it equivalent to people crossing a border illegally to obtain work and cash to send back to their families is silly in my opinion. When the Mexican Army comes in and tries to take over the US Southwest then you can play the colonial card.

Wow. Dumb.

If - Space = Empty,

Then - there are no invaders.

America = Empty.

Native Americans Occupied.

Europeans invaded.

Man, it's tough posting on here sometimes.

 

[Zedtom]

The philosophy that if you provide entitlements to allow a person or business to thrive has shown itself to be a drain and ripoff for taxpayers.

The student loan programs are good if the contract between the borrower and the lender is fulfilled. The scholarship programs based on academic excellence are a good thing. The grants based on race are not good and many other programs are suspect.

The government has set an awful example with handouts to business to stimulate new growth. The corporate welfare mentality has created a whole subculture of groups banded together to lobby for a taxpayer donation.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Mmm Candy Coat.

Fact is, America is built on invaders from Europe. That's what people refer to as "illegal immigration".

Now, America is being invaded by Mexicans.

What's the difference?

Well, actually, the irony is that Mexicans are partially Native American, so Native Americans are invading their land... back...

Here is some better irony...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Revolution

Mexico encouraged settlers to create their own militias for protection against hostile Indian tribes. Tejas was very sparsely populated and in the hope that an influx of settlers could control the Indian raids, the government liberalized immigration policies for the region.

The Mexican government encouraged American immigrants to steal native land claimed by Mexico?

Mexico realized that the influx of Americans into their territory would create problems, so they made American immigration into the future area of Texas illegal:

The Mexican-born settlers in Tejas were soon vastly outnumbered by people born in the United States. To address this situation, President Anastasio Bustamante implemented several measures on April 6, 1830. Chief among these was a prohibition against further immigration to Tejas from the United States

 

[NoWhereM]

As far as immigration into the United States I think preferential treatment should be given first to anyone born in North America, then Central America, then South America. Compared to many other parts of the world the United States has a fairly sparse population. As the world population continues to grow more and more people will come here whether we like it or not.

I don't like illegal immigration, though, as anyone coming here illegally has already demonstrated a total disregard for our legal system. I really wish congress would pass a law making it a felony to enter this country illegally and forbiding anyone convicted under that law from ever being eligible to become a US citizen in the future.

 

[cwjerome]

Mmm Candy Coat.

Fact is, America is built on invaders from Europe. That's what people refer to as "illegal immigration".

Now, America is being invaded by Mexicans.

What's the difference?

Well, actually, the irony is that Mexicans are partially Native American, so Native Americans are invading their land... back...

You cannot be serious? lol?

You cannot be stretching definitions and comparing totally different situations (separated by 400 years no less)? What law did these invaders break? What sovereignty issues were being violated?

I've seen some semantic twisting and sloppy reasoning before... but wow.