Boston Marathon

[Marshallj]

Remember the thread the other day about some races of people (or at least people from certain regions of Earth) having an inherent genetic advantage in sports?

I stated that Kenyans completely dominate long distance running. Others think it's "just a coincidence".

Well the Boston Marathon was just held, and Guess who won this time

The field consisted of 20,260 people, so there were plenty of competitors.

 

[vi edit]

Well, there's no denying that genetics certainly have some play in it, but they aren't as much as a factor of where you train, how you train, and how dedicated you are. Simply put, many of the Kenyan's bust their asses to train for these events. Their discipline pays off.

 

[tkdkid]

Genetics set the maximum attainable performance level that you can ever achieve. You can work hard and achieve it or do nothing and never know you had it in you. You can also have such a low max level that no matter what you do or how hard you work, you will never be competitive.

Part of this is due to actual physical advantages - i.e. physically larger lungs and hearts, or just more efficient ones.

 

[vi edit]

A track coach I had in college said the following -

Sprinters are born, distance runners are made. Basically what he was saying is that sprinters are much more genetic freaks than distance runners. Many people, if they are dedicated enough can run a sub 6:00 minute mile. Not many people, not matter how hard they train, can run a sub 11 second 100, or a sub 22 second 200, or a sub 50 second 400.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Well, there's no denying that genetics certainly have some play in it, but they aren't as much as a factor of where you train, how you train, and how dedicated you are. Simply put, many of the Kenyan's bust their asses to train for these events. Their discipline pays off.

Most of those people bust their asses. All the serious competitors are as skinny as hell and don't have an ounce of fat on their body.

For the normal everyday joe, I agree that they aren't going to get anywhere near their genetic limit because they don't train hard enough. But for a professional athlete, they train for a living and don't devote their life to training to do a half-assed job. They are simply hitting their genetic limit.

All of those competitors give it 100%, but one person's 100% just might not be enough to challenge somone else's 100%. Not only have the Kenyans won 12 of the last 13 titles, but the one time that they did lose, it was to Ethiopa, which is directly next to Kenya. Also, not only did a Kenyan win again this year, but a Kenyan came in second place, third place, fourth place, fifth place, seventh place, eighth place, and ninth place.

Those people have evolved in a mountainous region for thousands of years, and their bodies are adapted to those conditions. It's no surprise that when you stick someone like that on level ground down near sea level to compete, they do so well. Other athletes train at high altitudes, but their body isn't adapted from generations upon generations of people living in those conditions.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

its not genetics with keyans. kenya is like 8000 ft above sea level so they have a crapload of extre red blood cells to compensate. but when they get down here to a normal altitude ith all those red blood cells they can run forever

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
A track coach I had in college said the following -

Sprinters are born, distance runners are made. Basically what he was saying is that sprinters are much more genetic freaks than distance runners. Many people, if they are dedicated enough can run a sub 6:00 minute mile. Not many people, not matter how hard they train, can run a sub 11 second 100, or a sub 22 second 200, or a sub 50 second 400.

As long as you train properly, you'll hit a "wall". This is your genetic limit.

If it was just a matter of chance, you'd see determined athletes from all over the world winning these marathons. But instead, you see people mainly from one very small, very specific region on Earth winning.

My contention is that yes, a distance runner is made, but that work is not accomplished in only one lifetime. A distance runner is made from having ancestors upon ancestors living and working in those conditions. Their bodies are well adapted for the conditions in which they evolved in. They are in "their element" when competing in an efficiency race.

You can take someone from elsewhere in the world and make them train just as hard as a Kenyan, but they won't have a body evolved for endurance and efficiency like a Kenyan's. Those changes don't take place in one lifetime.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
its not genetics with keyans. kenya is like 8000 ft above sea level so they have a crapload of extre red blood cells to compensate. but when they get down here to a normal altitude ith all those red blood cells they can run forever

Many long distance runners now do high altitude training, not just Kenyans. No matter if everyone trains like the Kenyans do, they do not win like the Kenyans do.

Many of the changes in their body are long term evolutionary changes which do not happen in one life cycle.

 

[freegeeks]

When it's all genetics, how can you explain that a white female runner (Paula Ratclif) smashed the world record on the London Marathon last week???

 

[Marshallj]

Here's another example of the differences of the body structure of people.

You can take an Eskimo (which grew up in a cold climate), and give them the same workout routine as a Kenyan. But they will not get the same results. Their body is evolved for the environmental conditions that their ancestors experienced. Their skeletal structure is different. They are built more stocky to conserve heat, and they have a higher bodyfat percentage. You can stick an Eskimo in Kenya and they're still going to grow up with the same body structure as any other Eskimo... the changes take a long time to take place, hundreds or thousands of years.

Likewise, you can stick a Kenyan in a cold climate, and their skeletal structure will still be like a Kenyans... adapted for a hot climate. They'll be freezing up there.

Another example is sticking northern latitude people (very pale) down near the equator (where the people have dark skin). The changes do not take place in one lifespan.

What I'm getting at is that many of these changes are long term evolutionary changes and not short term (one lifetime) changes due to training.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
When it's all genetics, how can you explain that a white female runner (Paula Ratclif) smashed the world record on the London Marathon last week???

Remember, it's not ALL genetics, but it is MOSTLY genetics.

You'd have to look at her family genetics and her build to find out. Not everyone from every country is built the same. But you'll find much higher percentages of certain characteristics in certain areas. Sure, there will be some people in Kenya who won't be suited for long distance running. And they'll be some white people who are suited to it. But the rates of occurance will be much lower. Remember, we're talking percentages and probability here. Kenyans don't win every single year, but they did win 12 out of their last 13...

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

My contention is that yes, a distance runner is made, but that work is not accomplished in only one lifetime. A distance runner is made from having ancestors upon ancestors living and working in those conditions. Their bodies are well adapted for the conditions in which they evolved in. They are in "their element" when competing in an efficiency race.

Darwin is rolling over in his grave right now.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Marshallj

My contention is that yes, a distance runner is made, but that work is not accomplished in only one lifetime. A distance runner is made from having ancestors upon ancestors living and working in those conditions. Their bodies are well adapted for the conditions in which they evolved in. They are in "their element" when competing in an efficiency race.

Darwin is rolling over in his grave right now.

It takes more than a poorly formed comment with a condescending emoticon to disprove an idea. Why don't you elaborate.