Bose-Einstein condensate, black holes, and age of the universe.

ZapZilla

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Matter possesses gravity and warps space, as visualized by balls placed upon a stretched rubber sheet. The greater the mass/gravity, the more space is warped.

Surely Bose-Einstein condensate is affected by gravity, but does Bose-Einstein condensate possess or exert gravity, as does other matter? In other words, does it warp space like other matter?

Could it be that there is less gravity, possibly even no gravity, exerted by a Bose-Einstein condensate due to the extreme low temperature/movement of its sub-atomic particles?

Also, is a Bose-Einstein condensate the densest possible state of matter? What would be more dense?

As pressure affects the state of matter, for instance, a gas (high volume) can be pressurized and transformed into a liquid (lower volume), might the unfathomable pressure generated inside a sufficiently massive black hole induce the formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate core?

Eventually, as the low or no gravity Bose-Einstein condensate core becomes larger and larger by volume (either by growing slowly in volume over time, or by a single threshold, implosion wave event) the total gravity or space warpage of the black hole is lessened to the point that it can no longer contain its stored mass/energy, and thus, explodes or ejects matter/energy in a, wholly or partially, self-destructive mini-big-bang.

This scenario could explain that contradictions in the age of the universe, that currently vex cosmetologists, are not contradictions, but rather evidence of black holes mini-big-banging throughout the universe at various times, rendering the age of the universe impossible to determine.

Also, there would not be one expansion (and converse contraction) of the universe from a singular big bang, but rather bunches of expansions (and contractions) from oodles of mini-big-bangs.

If it is found that Bose-Einstein condensate does possess/exert gravity, could at some point the pressure at a black hole?s core otherwise break the mechanism of gravity to cause a black hole to mini-big-bang and obtain the same conclusions?
 

cquark

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Apr 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: ZapZilla
Matter possesses gravity and warps space, as visualized by balls placed upon a stretched rubber sheet. The greater the mass/gravity, the more space is warped.

Surely Bose-Einstein condensate is affected by gravity, but does Bose-Einstein condensate possess or exert gravity, as does other matter? In other words, does it warp space like other matter?

General relativity states that all energy/mass exerts a gravitational effect by modifying the geometry of spacetime. I'm not sure if any experiments exist that test gravitational effects of B-E condensates.

Could it be that there is less gravity, possibly even no gravity, exerted by a Bose-Einstein condensate due to the extreme low temperature/movement of its sub-atomic particles?

Unless a particle is moving near the speed of light, its kinetic energy is a negligible contributor to its gravitational attraction. There's no substantial difference between particles near absolute zero and those at room temperature at 300K for the purposes of gravity.

Also, is a Bose-Einstein condensate the densest possible state of matter? What would be more dense?

Nuclear matter, such as in an atomic nucleus or neutron star, has a higher density than any B-E condensate that we've made. Nuclear matter follows Fermi-Dirac statistics, as it consists of spin-1/2 particles, not Bose-Einstein statistics, which is followed by integer spin particles.


As pressure affects the state of matter, for instance, a gas (high volume) can be pressurized and transformed into a liquid (lower volume), might the unfathomable pressure generated inside a sufficiently massive black hole induce the formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate core?

An interesting question.

A white dwarf resists the tremendous pressure of its own gravity, which is too powerful for atoms to exist, because it consists of degenerate matter: atomic nuclei surrounded by a Fermi-Dirac gas of electrons. Their pressure is high enough to sustain the weight of the star ... until that mass reaches about 1.2 solar masses.

At that point, the pressure of its gravity is strong enough to induce reverse beta decay--the merging of an electron, antineutrino, and proton into a neutron--creating a neutron star. The pressure of the Fermi-Dirac gas of neutrons is strong enough to sustain the weight of the star ... until that mass reaches around 1.44 solar masses.

At that point, no force that we know of is strong enough, and the star collapses into a black hole. We can't see past the event horizon, since its gravity is so strong that the escape velocity is higher than the speed of light, so we don't know what happens inside. There could be phases of matter of which we're unaware, or maybe there really is a singularity inside.

If it is found that Bose-Einstein condensate does possess/exert gravity, could at some point the pressure at a black hole?s core otherwise break the mechanism of gravity to cause a black hole to mini-big-bang and obtain the same conclusions?

We actually expect to see a similar effect from Hawking radiation, which gradually leaks mass energy out of the black hole at an accelerating rate as the black hole grows smaller and smaller until the last moments do look like a gigantic explosion of high energy photons.
 

f95toli

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Nov 21, 2002
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I think you missunderstand the concept of B-E condensation. There is nothing really "exotic" about B-E when it comes to gravity AFAIK. B-E condensates have some interesting properties and some of them are quite usefull for making e.g. atomic clocks and studying fundamental physics but there is no connection to general relativity.

I am not sure why you make the connection between black holes, gravity and B-E condensates, a B-E condensate is not at all dense, experimentally it is realized using lasers shining on a gas placed in a glas cell; the density of the B-E condensate itself is actually very low.