Bosch Platinum +4s

[Mill]

I use stock in everything but the Mustang. I use NGKs in it.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Apex
If you're running a very high boost application, you may want to fiddle with the Brisk solution. People have dyno'd higher with these in some extreme applications (high compression, high boost, racefuel), in comparison to other spark plugs (new plugs, proper gap). They're kinda costly, and they don't seem to benefit less extreme applications though:

http://www.briskusa.com/products.htm#LGS

This looks interesting. I got everything.....but the race fuel. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

You give yuor mecedes too much credit where it is not due. It is not high compression nor high boost. It is rather low-mid boost and rather middling compression for a turbo or sc engine. Yu udrive a what is a rather common consumer level engine, nowhere near the levels that would benefit markedly from the plug.

Th reason mpg and power increased for you is likely a bad plug that you used before, perhaps a wrong temp range plug or improperly set electrode gaps. The Bosxch 4+ is nothing special. Physics causes the spark to take the path of least resistance, that owuld be the electrode that is gapped the closest, even minutely. Unless you have machine to gap the electrodes to micron or nanometers, the spark will only jump to 1 of the 4 electrodes, the one that was gapped closest. The other 3 just sit there, blcoking the flame front.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Apex
If you're running a very high boost application, you may want to fiddle with the Brisk solution. People have dyno'd higher with these in some extreme applications (high compression, high boost, racefuel), in comparison to other spark plugs (new plugs, proper gap). They're kinda costly, and they don't seem to benefit less extreme applications though:

http://www.briskusa.com/products.htm#LGS

This looks interesting. I got everything.....but the race fuel. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

You give yuor mecedes too much credit where it is not due. It is not high compression nor high boost. It is rather low-mid boost and rather middling compression for a turbo or sc engine. Yu udrive a what is a rather common consumer level engine, nowhere near the levels that would benefit markedly from the plug.

Th reason mpg and power increased for you is likely a bad plug that you used before, perhaps a wrong temp range plug or improperly set electrode gaps. The Bosxch 4+ is nothing special. Physics causes the spark to take the path of least resistance, that owuld be the electrode that is gapped the closest, even minutely. Unless you have machine to gap the electrodes to micron or nanometers, the spark will only jump to 1 of the 4 electrodes, the one that was gapped closest. The other 3 just sit there, blcoking the flame front.

Now heres a well thought out statement that I mostly agree with. While I did notice even wear trails leading from the firing tip, down the sides, over the insulator and underneath each electrode of the +4s, I dont know how it actually occurred. No one trail or one electrode showed any more wear than the other three, but this was just an experienced visual observation. I didnt use an electron microscope to see if in fact there was. It sure wasnt blatantly obvious. So if the spark is ALWAYS choosing the path of least resistance it would have been more evident I think, but it wasnt. What I think the even wear means is that at some point the spark is changing paths based on either of these conditions: startup, idle, acceleration or sustained high / low speeds (and all combinations therein).

I live in DFW, flew out to Bensalem PA (outside Philladelphia) in 06/05 and drove it back. Ive put on 14k since then. Everytime I buy fuel I use my debit card and keep the receipt. When I make the entry in my checkbook I do it this way (13.895@2.395s)301/21.66

The rated MPG for the car was 21 city / 30 highway using orig EPA estimates. Ive been noticing about .5 to 1mpg extra after installing the plugs. Now Ive also had a 4wheel alignment (needed when purch), factory air/ pollen/ fuel filters, drive +kompressor belts, radiator service, oem battery, plugs, oem wires and differential fluid changed (about $1k altogether - plus $3k on new bumper some noodnicks ran into and left that I paid for o/o pocket, new tires, upgraded rims from fact 15 to 16 oem chromes). So I know these things also have a bearing.

The old plugs were copper bosch super and looked ok considering their age. I got almost 20mpg off those. They were chaned 08/05.

Lastly, my numbers will go down to about 20.5 if I drive w/a leadfoot, which isnt common.

Ive also said my last Merc 190e didnt see any noticeable benefit from the +4s, and I also put alot of money into it as well, so Im drawn to the same conclusion ... its depends on what youer driving.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Apex
If you're running a very high boost application, you may want to fiddle with the Brisk solution. People have dyno'd higher with these in some extreme applications (high compression, high boost, racefuel), in comparison to other spark plugs (new plugs, proper gap). They're kinda costly, and they don't seem to benefit less extreme applications though:

http://www.briskusa.com/products.htm#LGS

This looks interesting. I got everything.....but the race fuel. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

You give yuor mecedes too much credit where it is not due. It is not high compression nor high boost. It is rather low-mid boost and rather middling compression for a turbo or sc engine. Yu udrive a what is a rather common consumer level engine, nowhere near the levels that would benefit markedly from the plug.

Th reason mpg and power increased for you is likely a bad plug that you used before, perhaps a wrong temp range plug or improperly set electrode gaps. The Bosxch 4+ is nothing special. Physics causes the spark to take the path of least resistance, that owuld be the electrode that is gapped the closest, even minutely. Unless you have machine to gap the electrodes to micron or nanometers, the spark will only jump to 1 of the 4 electrodes, the one that was gapped closest. The other 3 just sit there, blcoking the flame front.

Now heres a well thought out statement that I mostly agree with. While I did notice even wear trails leading from the firing tip, down the sides, over the insulator and underneath each electrode of the +4s, I dont know how it actually occurred. No one trail or one electrode showed any more wear than the other three, but this was just an experienced visual observation. I didnt use an electron microscope to see if in fact there was. It sure wasnt blatantly obvious. So if the spark is ALWAYS choosing the path of least resistance it would have been more evident I think, but it wasnt. What I think the even wear means is that at some point the spark is changing paths based on either of these conditions: startup, idle, acceleration or sustained high / low speeds (and all combinations therein).

I live in DFW, flew out to Bensalem PA (outside Philladelphia) in 06/05 and drove it back. Ive put on 14k since then. Everytime I buy fuel I use my debit card and keep the receipt. When I make the entry in my checkbook I do it this way (13.895@2.395s)301/21.66

The rated MPG for the car was 21 city / 30 highway using orig EPA estimates. Ive been noticing about .5 to 1mpg extra after installing the plugs. Now Ive also had a 4wheel alignment (needed when purch), factory air/ pollen/ fuel filters, drive +kompressor belts, radiator service, oem battery, plugs, oem wires and differential fluid changed (about $1k altogether - plus $3k on new bumper some noodnicks ran into and left that I paid for o/o pocket, new tires, upgraded rims from fact 15 to 16 oem chromes). So I know these things also have a bearing.

The old plugs were copper bosch super and looked ok considering their age. I got almost 20mpg off those. They were chaned 08/05.

Lastly, my numbers will go down to about 20.5 if I drive w/a leadfoot, which isnt common.

Ive also said my last Merc 190e didnt see any noticeable benefit from the +4s, and I also put alot of money into it as well, so Im drawn to the same conclusion ... its depends on what youer driving.

well all the matinence you've done could easily make the gains from those. $ wheel alignment will help yuo track straighter which could cause less wander in a lane, thus creating a strraigher path, which we all know, straight path = shortest path between 2 given points(unless you can theroticalyl fold the universe). The fuel filter could be giving you bettermpg and power by allowing fuel through more easily. The belts could reduce slippage and thus create a more efficent power transfer between the crankshaft and ac compressor/alternator. The Air filter could allow more air throuhgh fro a cleaner burn and a ratio closer to the stoichiometric ideal. The differential case fluid change would reduce the coefficent frictions(Kinetic and Static) and thus it would feel more lively off the line and crusing while not robbing as much power. You did a lot of matinence therefore the single factor that causes the boost in mpg and power cannot be determined. Likely, it's a mix of factors, but the sparkplugs are very unlikely to be the cause.

Nascar uses a unshrouded spark plug(as does ferrari) for races and the traditional J shaped for qualifying/practice. Both have 1 electrode so flame can spread in the most degrees horizontally and the unshrouded also provided flame travel straight down relative to the spark plug. More than 1 electrode is really more for endurance than power or fuel economy. THis way, as 1 electrode wears, the others can take over, providing therotically more life to a plug, but that really only presents a advantage if you have a incredibly high firing amperage. With a normal car firing amperage, the spark would do minimal damage to a electrode throughout a plug's life.

As for the even wear trails, Wear trails are not caused by the spark, rather it is caused by combustion of fuel. The fuel ignites while the spark is in midair, very close to the center electrode and thus the flame pattern, in a standard head configuration(falt top or hemi, any type that is mostly symmetrical) will be even and it will burn all 4 electrodes similarly. Only 1 electrode will recieve spark, bu the flamefront will touch all four equally or at least fairly equally(there will be a very slight, probably not noticable with naked eyes, bias toward the working ground electrode side).

For marginally better performance, a single electrode unshrouded will perform better than a Jtype or Bosch 4 electrode unshrouded.

My very long $.02