Boot quirk with new Atlon 64

[rkoenn]

I just upgraded my system to an Athlon 64 3000+ (cost effectiveness) with an MSI KT8T Neo MB and have one odd quirk. When I first turn on the system each day it does not POST and I need to depress the reset button one time to get it to POST. After that the system seems to run perfectly from then on. I started with PC400 ECC/Registered (ordered by mistake) and it would not POST at all. I changed out for two sticks of PC333 512 MB that had previously worked perfectly in my MSI K7 NVidia board and it runs fine but still does not POST the first time it is turned on each day. I changed out with a 512 MB and 256MB PC400 memory and the same quirk still is present. No initial POST and then a reset depress and the system runs fine. I will order a different brand of PC400 memory the next time I order from my supplier but am still at a loss to explain this. If anyone has any ideas or has experienced a similar funny I would be interested to hear about it. Thanks.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Yeah, with my SOYO K8USA it won't boot after taking the 5v stand-by power away and being plugged back in if an LCD monitor is turned on already It's easily reproducable as an issue too, I thought I had a cold boot problem till the process of elimination found the cause. Never seen anything like this before, so you're not alone with weird boot issues on K8 boards

 

[Peter]

rkoenn, your power supply unit might be weak on the +5VStandby rail.

 

[Buz2b]

Sounds like PS to me also.
Dapunisher, pardon my brain lock here but can you 'splain to me what you meant by "won't boot after taking the 5v stand-by power away and being plugged back in if an LCD monitor is turned on already ". I'm easily confused but always curious.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Buz2b
Sounds like PS to me also.
Dapunisher, pardon my brain lock here but can you 'splain to me what you meant by "won't boot after taking the 5v stand-by power away and being plugged back in if an LCD monitor is turned on already ". I'm easily confused but always curious.

Hey Buz! :beer: When I unplug the computer or switch it off from the PSU after 5 seconds the LED that indicates power to the board is still present winks out. The 5v stand-by is present even with the board off to allow for features like keyboard power on. So when I kill the power to the board and then plug back in the power cord or click the PSU switch back on I can't get the system to boot unless the monitor is turned off
I've never seen anything like it, happens with either my Dell or NEC LCD's and if I leave them turned off the board will boot up fine, then I can turn the monitor on=weirdness!

 

[ddeder]

Just out of curiosity, when the computer does not post, does the hard drive light stay off, blink or stay on solid?

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Yeah, with my SOYO K8USA it won't boot after taking the 5v stand-by power away and being plugged back in if an LCD monitor is turned on already It's easily reproducable as an issue too, I thought I had a cold boot problem till the process of elimination found the cause. Never seen anything like this before, so you're not alone with weird boot issues on K8 boards

Please don't blame this on K8 boards, as I have not had any problems, neither has NFS4 (that I have seen) What memory are you running, and are you overclocking at all ?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: ddeder
Just out of curiosity, when the computer does not post, does the hard drive light stay off, blink or stay on solid?

the standard light blinking on all drives but no post, thanks for any help

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Yeah, with my SOYO K8USA it won't boot after taking the 5v stand-by power away and being plugged back in if an LCD monitor is turned on already It's easily reproducable as an issue too, I thought I had a cold boot problem till the process of elimination found the cause. Never seen anything like this before, so you're not alone with weird boot issues on K8 boards

Please don't blame this on K8 boards, as I have not had any problems, neither has NFS4 (that I have seen) What memory are you running, and are you overclocking at all ?

Don't blame it on K8 boards??? That's just silly and illogical, not all boards, even those based on the same chipset are created equal Boards vary by manufacturer, chipset, bios, ect, ect, ect, ad nauseum! I have a K8 board and it is quirky, period. I certainly won't be blaming the problem on my nF2 board Personally I'm blaming SOYO, this is my first SOYO ever and it has a couple quirks I'm not happy about. The other issue is it loses any PS2 KB plugged into it when it hits the desktop and you have to unistall it from the device mangler and run the add hardware wizard, only takes 20 seconds to fix after boot but it's annoying and I don't have a USB KB I can try. BTW, these problems were all discovered during the initial stability testing phase after install and before any overclocking took place. The only thing I haven't eliminated is that the bios is responsible, I'll have to make a bootable CD and flash it to the latest revision to see if that clears these bugs up. Beyond that, and being a system builder, I have multiple hardware at any given time I can use for troubleshooting, and the boot issue is reproducable thus far with Corsair 2700DDR even when all bios settings are manual so I doubt it's memory related.

No AGP/PCI lock with this board either, and the capacitors are so close to the socket that you have to nudge one back to clip on the heatsink and another to secure it in the locked position. On the good side, it hits 2.3ghz stable but due to crappy ram I have to use the divider so it's only running aprox. 384DDR at that speed. It'll do 2.2ghz 440DDR very nicely though which is my preferred speeds with this ram. Time to buy some OCZ ram soon and see if I can get 2.3ghz with 460DDR and some good timing instead of the 2.5-3-3-6 I'm settling for now.

 

[o1die]

I had the same problem with a k7vta3, until I changed from an nvidia video card to ati. One other person had this problem with my board. You might try it, if you have a spare card.

 

[rkoenn]

I am uncertain about the hard drive LED as I have a dual SATA RAID array and they do not activate the HD LED. I do notice though that my DVD RW drives access light stays on which is odd and I have thought about that. Also, the diagnostic LED array that comes with the MSI board shows only the initial single LED as green and the others as red which according the documentation means chipset initialization is the cause. The reset always fixes it but shouldn't have to be done. I am still a bit suspicious of memory.

 

[rkoenn]

Now that I recall, I have had a couple of MSI boards that if I put certain ATI cards (or Sapphire) they do not POST the first time but usually a reset button fixes it. I started using different cards and in most cases different cards would fix it. So it might be the video card and the motherboard combo. It doesn't mean either is faulty, just that they sometimes do not POST the first time. From the bit I have found this oddity it seems to be related to MSI boards and certain ATI/Sapphire cards. Not a major problem but an annoyance. Especially since I have a small business building systems and you never want to sell such a system to somebody and tell them you have to push the reset button to get it going. Doesn't sit well with the customer.

 

[Buz2b]

Hey Buz! When I unplug the computer or switch it off from the PSU after 5 seconds the LED that indicates power to the board is still present winks out. The 5v stand-by is present even with the board off to allow for features like keyboard power on. So when I kill the power to the board and then plug back in the power cord or click the PSU switch back on I can't get the system to boot unless the monitor is turned off.
I've never seen anything like it, happens with either my Dell or NEC LCD's and if I leave them turned off the board will boot up fine, then I can turn the monitor on=weirdness!

Verrrry Interrrrrestingg. Curious (pardon the dumb question) but if you plug the board back in does the MB power LED come back on after a bit? Assuming it does, you're saying that it still won't boot unless the monitor is off? Also, have you tried (after either unplugging or turning off the PS) leaving the power on the board for a few minutes to see if it will boot normally? Instead of trying to boot right away say, leave it for 5 minutes before trying.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Instead of trying to boot right away say, leave it for 5 minutes before trying

I certainly haven't, and it couldn't hurt to try, so when I finish up with the overclocking and benching tests I'll give it a shot and LYK how it goes. Hey, I just thought of something, the board actually does a quick power up with double beep when you give it power again and then turns off. In the troubleshooting section of the manual it says if this happens to check the the CPU fan is plugged into CPUFAN1 header, it is of course, but this evidently isn't normal, perhaps the fan isn't spinning up fast enough and is causing it to think that the CPU isn't actively cooled?

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Instead of trying to boot right away say, leave it for 5 minutes before trying

I certainly haven't, and it couldn't hurt to try, so when I finish up with the overclocking and benching tests I'll give it a shot and LYK how it goes. Hey, I just thought of something, the board actually does a quick power up with double beep when you give it power again and then turns off. In the troubleshooting section of the manual it says if this happens to check the the CPU fan is plugged into CPUFAN1 header, it is of course, but this evidently isn't normal, perhaps the fan isn't spinning up fast enough and is causing it to think that the CPU isn't actively cooled?

Or it could be the rpm monitoring of the fan or MB is at fault. Are you using a low rpm fan on the HS? Don't you also have a USB CDRW on that system? Have you tried unplugging that for the first boot? Could help narrow things down. Sure is strange though. Not that you need more suggestions but have you thought about changing the fan on the HS? Just for kicks of course!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Buz2b

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Instead of trying to boot right away say, leave it for 5 minutes before trying

I certainly haven't, and it couldn't hurt to try, so when I finish up with the overclocking and benching tests I'll give it a shot and LYK how it goes. Hey, I just thought of something, the board actually does a quick power up with double beep when you give it power again and then turns off. In the troubleshooting section of the manual it says if this happens to check the the CPU fan is plugged into CPUFAN1 header, it is of course, but this evidently isn't normal, perhaps the fan isn't spinning up fast enough and is causing it to think that the CPU isn't actively cooled?

Or it could be the rpm monitoring of the fan or MB is at fault. Are you using a low rpm fan on the HS? Don't you also have a USB CDRW on that system? Have you tried unplugging that for the first boot? Could help narrow things down. Sure is strange though. Not that you need more suggestions but have you thought about changing the fan on the HS? Just for kicks of course!

It's the stock retail cooler and turns about 3200-3300rpm, it's quiet but not the most effective. I'm waiting for the Alpha and Thermaright skt754 cooler to be readily available and then I'll swap it. Unfortunately the CoolerMaster is whimpier than the stock and has Alu base instead of copper the stock does. I'm not using my usb burner with this system, I'm using it for my notebook since I just bought a new Ricoh 4x DVD+R/+RW. I have a True330 on it with 2 ATAPI, 1 IDE, usb 8in1 card reader *had the problem before hooking it up* and that's about it besides 2x512mb 3200DDR and my very power hungry 5800U. The +5v is a bit low 4.79v but the other rails are excellent. This PSU has run a Barton with this config at 2.43ghz 1.85v with all the rails strong so it would seem that the board is to blame. I can't imagine how this A64 running 1.5v can be more power hungry than the Barton either and this board has the 12v connector too. I've disabled the RAID as well so flashing the bios is the next step me thinks.

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Buz2b

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Instead of trying to boot right away say, leave it for 5 minutes before trying

I certainly haven't, and it couldn't hurt to try, so when I finish up with the overclocking and benching tests I'll give it a shot and LYK how it goes. Hey, I just thought of something, the board actually does a quick power up with double beep when you give it power again and then turns off. In the troubleshooting section of the manual it says if this happens to check the the CPU fan is plugged into CPUFAN1 header, it is of course, but this evidently isn't normal, perhaps the fan isn't spinning up fast enough and is causing it to think that the CPU isn't actively cooled?

Or it could be the rpm monitoring of the fan or MB is at fault. Are you using a low rpm fan on the HS? Don't you also have a USB CDRW on that system? Have you tried unplugging that for the first boot? Could help narrow things down. Sure is strange though. Not that you need more suggestions but have you thought about changing the fan on the HS? Just for kicks of course!

It's the stock retail cooler and turns about 3200-3300rpm, it's quiet but not the most effective. I'm waiting for the Alpha and Thermaright skt754 cooler to be readily available and then I'll swap it. Unfortunately the CoolerMaster is whimpier than the stock and has Alu base instead of copper the stock does. I'm not using my usb burner with this system, I'm using it for my notebook since I just bought a new Ricoh 4x DVD+R/+RW. I have a True330 on it with 2 ATAPI, 1 IDE, usb 8in1 card reader *had the problem before hooking it up* and that's about it besides 2x512mb 3200DDR and my very power hungry 5800U. The +5v is a bit low 4.79v but the other rails are excellent. This PSU has run a Barton with this config at 2.43ghz 1.85v with all the rails strong so it would seem that the board is to blame. I can't imagine how this A64 running 1.5v can be more power hungry than the Barton either and this board has the 12v connector too. I've disabled the RAID as well so flashing the bios is the next step me thinks.

God I hate all this quoting stuff but in this case, for consistancy, it makes sense. At any rate, it sounds more like the board in this case. Probably something in the power managment circuits, etc. Either bad design or faulty board. Thanks for the explanations and insight. Good luck with sorting this out.

 

[Noid]

lol,,, 'it's baaAAAaaaack ....'

My old K7Master had the old ... turn off the PS (or unplug it) for 20 seconds ....

Before it would cold (hard) boot.

welcome to the world of MSI

 

[LeeC]

Im having the same problem with mine. I have a9600pro sapphire. But it takes about 3 boots for it to take...A64 3000, K8v deluxe, and 512 corsair 3200llpro DDr400.driving me crazy. Once you get her going shes good the rest of the day, but power down for an hour or two, and you go throught the same process.

Lee

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: LeeC
Im having the same problem with mine. I have a9600pro sapphire. But it takes about 3 boots for it to take...A64 3000, K8v deluxe, and 512 corsair 3200llpro DDr400.driving me crazy. Once you get her going shes good the rest of the day, but power down for an hour or two, and you go throught the same process.

Lee

As a curiosity, (and to be sure I do not really think this is a PS problem), have either you or Dapunisher ever tried a "test" with just one stick of RAM, minimal drives and fans hooked up, etc, etc, just to see if this "minimal" setup will reliably boot or not cause the problem? Please pardon the "old school" thought process 'Punisher but I had to ask.

 

[rkoenn]

I wanted to say to LeeC that in my experience I have found that it seems some MSI MBs and Sapphire Radeon based cards seem to exhibit this quirk more than any other configuration. I have installed Sapphire cards in 3 or 4 systems I have set up with MSI boards and found this in them all I believe. And as yours takes sometimes more than one reset to start, those did the same thing. With other type video cards, even "real" ATI manufactured cards, this problem actually went away. And I don't think I have found it with MBs from other manufacturers. I know in one system, with an MSI NVidia GE Force 2, I replaced a Sapphire 9600 with a real ATI card with a lower end Radeon and no such problem. I have contacted Sapphire about this with no response and will probably write MSI about this also. If I get any answers I will post them. My new system exhibiting this quirk has a "real" ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. It has always had this power up problem since I upgraded last Tuesday. Still haven't had a chance to try different memory. And the diagnostic LEDs that come with the MSI boards indicate a chipset initialization failure.

 

[LeeC]

This is abrand new system, with a asus K8V deluxe board. I got all high end parts, as this is my first build, and did not want to chance getting bad stuff, and having to figure it out. As it turns out, this is the only problem I have run into.

Buz, I have one stick of 512 corsair 3200llpro, but have not tried a different stick yet.I have tried 2 real ati cards, and it has done the same thing. I am now in the process of trying an nvidia card to see. The things I am going to look for right now are, Memory, PSU, high end card. Just to rule out different manufacturing differences since the 64 came out. The MB manuel actually says that this board has had some differences with some ati cards.. I actually ended up taking it to the shop, and letting the guys up there help me. Hopefully they have seen something like this and can isolate it. I spent about 2 days trying to figure this out on the net, and could not get many responses, so I really had no choice. I needed to get back to work.

rkoenn,
When it finally boots up, I get an windows error message saying that there was a process draw in a ati file driver that could not complete. Not sure what that means, but it sounds like the drivers are not liking something. I will keep everyone informed. I am not sure where I saw it, I think on Anands somewhere that these systems seem to like the high end cards, and either kingston, or mushkin memory. I was hoping that nothing would go too bad since this is my first system, but I guess if it did not need fixing I would not learn as much. Thanks guys for the help. Here is my system specs. Looking back, the only change I woy=uld have made would be to get a bigger PSU from the start

Liteon LDW-411S DVD Dual Rewriter Retail

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Processor Retail
Shipped

Antec Solution Series SLK2600AMB Super Mini Tower Case Retail

Sony FD MPF920Z161/131 1.44MB 3.5in Floppy Disk Drive (Beige)

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 6Y060M0 60GB Serial ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer

Corsair CMX512-3200LLPRO 512MB DDR400 XMS3200 Ultra Low Latency ProSeries Memory w/Heat Spreader Retail

Asus K8V Deluxe Via K8T800 Athlon 64 Skt754 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, LAN, Dual SATA RAID Retail


SapphireTech Atlantis Radeon 9600 Pro AGP 8X 128MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI Powered by ATI


Liteon LTC48161H DVD-ROM 16x + CD-RW 48x24x48 Combo Drive Retail

 

[LeeC]

Well guys, just got back from the shop, and they had absolutely Had no problem with the sytem. But they used the analog cables, and not the dvi cable. I came back, and hooked it up to the dvi connection, and it would not display. I unhooked the dvi, put the analog on and it displayed no problem...I Have a samsung syncmaster 19" that I just bought, and figured it would be ok to use the dvi connections, but I guess not..Does anyone here use both connections on their flat panel?

 

[Buz2b]

Originally posted by: LeeC
Well guys, just got back from the shop, and they had absolutely Had no problem with the sytem. But they used the analog cables, and not the dvi cable. I came back, and hooked it up to the dvi connection, and it would not display. I unhooked the dvi, put the analog on and it displayed no problem...I Have a samsung syncmaster 19" that I just bought, and figured it would be ok to use the dvi connections, but I guess not..Does anyone here use both connections on their flat panel?

LeeC,
Earlier you said you had tried some "real ATI" video cards. Were you also using the DVI connection on those cards? Perhaps you are on the right track when you talk about trying an nVidia card. Let us know if it works out.
On the other hand, have you tried going to this site? They seem to have a great deal of in-depth understanding of issues with ASUS boards. It might take some reading time but could be worth the effort. There are some good people there. Not short-changing us AT'ers (as I am one) but you might find some "different perspectives" there.

 

[LeeC]

Buz, I had not even thought that using the dvi would be a problem so when I used the ati boards, I went straight for the dvi cable like I did with the sapphire and they still did not work, I thought it was something in the memory, or MB. I took them back to the store that lent them to me. I looked at my system at home, and it is running a dvi connection on a gateway computer. I figured that it should be no problwm with this setup, but there is something wrong I just cannot figure out what just yet.It has to be in the way the drivers talk to the monitor. If analog is used, there are no problems. Once everything is warmedup, and booted The system will work all day with no crashes. It is just cold booting this thing.

Thanks