Bookshelf Reciever for Computer

[imported_Imp]

After seriously about to splurge on a new set of Z-5500s (completed online order forms thrice, turned away thanks to Dell adding 3 units to a 1 unit order), I've decided to go for 'real' speakers. I'm extremely new to this, and currently doing loads of research. I have already decided on Infinity Primus 150s for the two fronts. I'm planning on slowly getting up to 4.0/4.1 or 5.1. Decided on these pretty quick thanks to price and raving of their quality.

However, I would love some input on what to look for in buying a reciever. This seems to be the hardest part since it is the most expensive piece of a Bookshelf setup and the most complicated. I only need 1 input, maybe 2 for future expansion, and I don't plan on hooking any Video components into it. The cheapest I've seen is a Panasonic RX-5060B. Recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I prefer Onkyo or Pioneer for a super low budget receiver but that JVC might be OK.

One worry: you need a 5.1 _analog_ input (not digital) for surround sound in games with most soundcards, and that listing doesn't say whether the JVC has one.

It's a set of 6 or 8 plugs, often labeled DVD or multi chan in, with at least front L/R, center, sub, rear L/R inputs.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Just a thought for upgrade order

For movies mainly I would do
2.0 to 2.1 to 3.1 to 5.1

For gaming probably
2.0 to 2.1 to 4.1 to 5.1

For music probably
2.0 to 2.1, and then it doesn't really matter if you're going to be listening in stereo mode (maybe next step would be move the Primus 150s to the rear and get some better fronts)

Yeah Circuit City has some very attractive pricing on the Primus series now :thumbsup:

What kind of soundcard do you have?

So is this going to be used just for computer use to start?

It's a bit tougher to hook up a receiver to a computer and get surround sound vs. a set of computer speakers. Most budget receivers do not have the 5.1 analog input that would be a similar connection to the kind you would find on a set of computer speakers. In order to get true surround higher than 2.1 on a budget receiver, you'll need to hook up via digital and send it a DD / DTS stream. You can use some fake surround modes like Prologic II on stereo sources, but without a 5.1 analog input the digital inputs are going to be the way to get real surround out.

This isn't a big issue since you're starting with 2.0 / 2.1, but it's something to think about down the road.

As for an affordable receiver, if you're willing to go used you can get some cheaper units. Random example:
http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?pro...delid=51&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1

 

[imported_Imp]

Thanks for the input so far.

Forgot to mention, I am about 50/40/12 for music, games, movies, but unless I'm playing an FPS, I care about music quality more than how thumpy that bass is for games. My current soundcard is an X-fi Xtrememusic. Also, I'm in Canada, so a lot of your recommended stores won't do me anygood.

I plan on sticking to 2.0 until Christmas, then try to nail some post-Christmas sales on a sub/more speakers. So 5.1 is definately a near-future consideration, but 4.0 will be my goal as base is not as important to me (yet). The primary use will be for my computer since I run everything off that (i.e. music, movies, gams etc.); that likely means digital connection is out. From the sounds of it so far, the reciever isn't something I can cheap out on and get away with for long. Is there a good reciever that has all the necessary inputs/options at sub $300?

Thanks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Yeah, with that X-Fi and 40% gaming, getting a receiver with 5.1 analog input should be a priority for you.

Pioneer is a good bet for getting that feature on a budget. They tend to offer some pretty good connectivity options on a budget.

EDIT: Even the Pioneer 516 @ ~$180 over here has it.
Onkyo 304 as well

 

[knght990]

Pre-decoded inputs is a good way to go, but not the only way as it is analog and does require a copper cable for each channel being sent to it.
What makes a reciever a reciever is the am/fm tuner. Otherwise it would just be an amp. You can buy multi-channel amps that have built in volume controls that would take a predecoded output but they tend to be more expensive then the reciever of equal power.
You can get a digital signal from a sound card to a reciever. You can use the SPDIF output or as an option on some more expensive sound cards an optical output (audigy platinum/audigy 2 platinums).
For the task of computer only, depending on what you wish to spend, you can go the home theater in a box (HTIB) method. Onkyo HTS sets that start around $299 for a 5.1. It includes the reciever 5 speakers and the sub (though i don't believe this system has the predecoded input so you would have to use SPDIF). There are other sets out there like this, some that cost a little more but will give you the predecoded input and 6.1.
Peicing out a system is good if you want to get closer to a mid-level system, but the sound quality of a system like the onk will have sound to rival that of 4 cheap bookshelf speakers.
-TL

 

[DaveSimmons]

You can get a digital signal from a sound card to a reciever. You can use the SPDIF output or as an option on some more expensive sound cards an optical output (audigy platinum/audigy 2 platinums).
For the task of computer only, depending on what you wish to spend, you can go the home theater in a box (HTIB) method. Onkyo HTS sets that start around $299 for a 5.1. It includes the reciever 5 speakers and the sub (though i don't believe this system has the predecoded input so you would have to use SPDIF).

The X-fi does not do Dolby Digital Live encoding, so a digital connection will not allow surround sound for games, only for movies. Games will only be in 2-channel stereo.

 

[imported_Imp]

After much more research and reading, I wondering if anyone has any experience with these two receivers (yep, budget).

Pioneer VSX-516k

Pioneer VSX-816k

The main difference seems to be auto-callibration and XM radio, both of which I could do without.

 

[stu1811]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

You can get a digital signal from a sound card to a reciever. You can use the SPDIF output or as an option on some more expensive sound cards an optical output (audigy platinum/audigy 2 platinums).
For the task of computer only, depending on what you wish to spend, you can go the home theater in a box (HTIB) method. Onkyo HTS sets that start around $299 for a 5.1. It includes the reciever 5 speakers and the sub (though i don't believe this system has the predecoded input so you would have to use SPDIF).

The X-fi does not do Dolby Digital Live encoding, so a digital connection will not allow surround sound for games, only for movies. Games will only be in 2-channel stereo.

To solve this buy a receiver with six channel analog input. Or you will have to buy a realtime DTS encoder to get 5.1 sound from your computer.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Imp
After much more research and reading, I wondering if anyone has any experience with these two receivers (yep, budget).

Pioneer VSX-516k

Pioneer VSX-816k

The main difference seems to be auto-callibration and XM radio, both of which I could do without.

I used to use my Pioneer 1014tx as my receiver (since then it has been demoted) and the MCACC auto-calibration it had didn't seem to help me out much. In my own experience it ended up kind of screwing up the timbre match I had between my front three speakers. It did do a good job for setting channel levels though.

Over here the 816 is about $100 more than the 516, but if the difference is only $30 over there, then I don't know.

 

[imported_Imp]

Thanks for the help so far.

Just a small update. I got shot down chasing the Infinities $100 a pair at Best Buy; went to the store on day 3 of sale, just sold out. On day 5, called stores that had it according to website, all of them "Just sold them." Grrr... So, now they are out of stock AND back at $300 again, which is a rip considering how cheap they are not on sale in the US.

So, now I'm considering the Athena A1-B1($170) or Paradigm Atoms($215 on sale/$250 normal). I just came back from a Hi-fi store which allowed me to hear the Atoms and Titans along with some very neutral speakers running $500+. All I have to say is omfg, every "stereo" I've ever heard sucks, especially these computer speakers I'm using now Z-2300. Bookshelves have great dispersion and depth; compared to them, my current "higher quality" computer speakers sounds like my 10 year old mono-sound TV. Now I have to get new speakers... Anyways, back to the Atoms, they sound pretty good. There is definately a bit of brightness, but I kind of like it after a bit of listening. The Titans are too boomy in the bass, and they are more expensive, so forget them. I may run out and test out the Athenas tomorrow. So, unless I can scrounge up some reasonably priced P150s, it looks like it's the Athenas or Atoms. Anyone have any experience with them?

Also, I'm probably going with the Pioneer VSX-516 since its on sale right now for $250, and is good enough for my needs from what I hear.

 

[darkhorror]

www.ascendacoustics.com

if you want good info on speakers and receiver and anything else hometheater, homeaudio check out www.avsforum.com there is more information than you will ever need there.

It really depends on your price range, and what you are looking to spend on everything. I would if you can find it go with the Pioneer 1014, 1015, or 1016, those are much better quality than the 516, you may be able to find one of those cheap. Another cheap receiver to try is the Panasonic xr55 or 57, people ether really love this thing and say it sounds better than much better equipment or really hate it. Plus it's cheap like around 250.

Both of those speakers you were looking at are decent speakers, good for the price. Although if I were you I would spend a little more money go with the pioneer 1016 which is under 400, and the ascendacoustics 170se for around 350 shipped. The pioneer would give you plenty of clean power for your two channels, plus when you get more channels it will have power for that also. And those ascend speakers are just great you can't do better for the money.

 

[imported_Imp]

Today, I robbed a bank...

Or so I wish, looks more like someone robbed me of $500. I went shopping at many electronics stores today, and ended up at Future Shop to pick up the Pioneer VSX-516 since it was on sale. Half an hour later, I walked out with the 516($250), 30' of speaker cable($30 Monster Cable:evil and the Athena's AS-B1.2s($150). Oh, and a 2 year warranty(extended:roll that was $30, but I got a $15 discount for spending so effing much. I only planned on going to try the Athenas, but there were none hooked up, and theres a no questions asked return policy for 30 days, so what the hell. The only pissed of this escapade is that I lugged the two boxes in both hands for 3 blocks before I called a taxi; was planning on using public transport, but knew the size of the boxes would be too much of a hinderance. Then I didn't tip the taxi driver, which I now feel bad about.

Unpacking and hooking up the speakers were pretty easy. The only hard part was figuring out how to strip a wire without breaking off strands; this took 2 hours, but now I'm pretty good at it. Apparently the key is to not cut down to the wire, but to focus on the pulling.

I just started to test out the speakers, and wow are they clear. Every sound has more depth, the soundstage is huge and everything sounds fairly neutral. The highs seem to stand out a bit though. Vocals are clear, every instrument sounds distinct and isn't muddled like before. However, the bass sounds somewhat light; I'll have to double check that(receiver or cable screw up?). However, it may just be that I'm used to the boominess of the Logitechs or that there's no sub. I definately have to look over the receiver manual more.

Edit: Yep, my screw up. The speakers were set to LARGE (meaning, should be able to produce bass), but the Subwoofer was set to YES:roll:. Everything sounds WAY better now.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I'm glad you've got everything hooked up and sounding good now.

I've heard some of the Paradigm performance series (that the Atoms / Titans are part of) but not the Athenas.

 

[SonicIce]

i need a job

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
i need a job

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: SonicIce
i need a job

I do too, that along with rip off college textbooks burned my last summer job paycheck. Cash flow is all out from here on. Must. Save....

And thank you. Compared to the Titans and Atoms I heard, the Athenas are a lot more neutral. The Titans were too boomy and the atoms were a lot warmer with emphasis on the mid-bass and mid-range, which I must admit I kind of liked. From what I hear though, I have about 45 more hours of breaking in to do with these things, but they sound great from what I'm hearing so far.

 

[imported_Imp]

Just an unfortunate update. Bad news, seriously planning to take these speakers back for a refund. After the intial waltz of owning high quality speakers, I have learned to seriously critique them, and have concluded that they are way too damn bright. I'm getting a headache listening to 3/4 of my stuff with Thom Yorke being the worst offender; what was once awesome use of synthesizers has turned into chalkboard scratching, ear piercing highs. I know Athenas have a reputation of being bright, but after 50-100 hour break-in, they tone down. I've gone through over 30 hours of 'break-in' and they seem to be getting brighter. I doubt they'll suddenly just go neutral at the 50 mark, so I'd rather spend $200(God I hope they're still on sale) on those Atoms I loved than waste $150 on a head ache machine. Hope I can find those boxes...

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

These would be on the warmer side too. ( So I've read )

EDIT: Oh, and before you give up on the ones you got, have you tried different placement with them?

 

[imported_Imp]

Sadly, no. Currently, they are about 1 foot from the wall. I was planning on doing just that by buying a huge table for my monitor. However, about $100 for a new table could be better spent in getting better speakers. My room is somewhat screwy as there really aren't any good places to put speakers other than on the desk. I would try harder, but you really have to hear it to believe it; they are bright, and apparently, this may be as good as it gets. Also, many many posts in various forums suggest that I am not as sensitive as I though. Going to hump them back to the store (only 30 pounds over 3 kilometers or I get a ride). Definately plan on settling down with the Atoms as the P150s are outrageously overpriced or not in stock. Bestbuy has em for $200, but it looks like they are about to stop selling them (none in stock anywhere), and electronics stores have had them for $400; I can get some Monitors for that match.

 

[imported_Imp]

Psh... dont it again. Picked up the Atoms after testing some personal CDs on their high high quality reciever. Stuff sounded as amazing as I thought the first time I tried them, so managed to pick up a pair. Their last pair was the display model so that's either good or bad. Good in that I got them for $180 ($250 normal, $215 on sale and $185 floor discount and I weazeled out a $5 discount). Only small blemishes noticable such as a crack on one of the rear wall mount screwholes and a scratch on a corner of the grill. There are people nearby so I can't jack them up to truly test them, but so far, they are awesome. Everything sounds clear and the soundstage is great. Also, there is actually bass now unlike the Athenas, and I'm not going deaf only hearing the highs.

Just a note: My arms hurt from humping them 5 blocks home. Oh, and if anyone's interested in Toronto, Kromer Radio has Boston Acoustics CR57s for $149 on sale down from $249. Titans and Atoms are sold out.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Glad they're working out for you.

My old roommate has Paradigm Phantoms and he's really liking them.