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Bonds Randomly tested for Steroids.

Exactly. I don't think he gave them up because he decided it was wrong, I think he gave them up because he was afraid of getting caught when the whole BALCO thing came out. He knows there isn't enough evidence to make a claim against him unless they find a smoking gun.
 
Generally whenever someone gets off steroids they quickly lose a LOT of what they gained as a result of the steroids. You cannot just temporarily go on steroids, get big, stop using it, and expect to keep those gains.

Stopping the use of steroids is like stopping working out altogether, you will not retain your gains.
 
Originally posted by: venk
Exactly. I don't think he gave them up because he decided it was wrong, I think he gave them up because he was afraid of getting caught when the whole BALCO thing came out. He knows there isn't enough evidence to make a claim against him unless they find a smoking gun.
Click to expand...

and you probably feel the same way about sosa and giambi right?

but wait, theres a HUGE difference between bonds and those two losers isn't there.
 
I do feel the same way about them. Sosa has shown that he is a cheater when he was caught with the corked bat. If he cheats in one aspect of the game, why do you think he wont cheat in another? As for Giambi, my guess is his body didn't handle going of the 'roids real well, that is why his immune system has been completly shot this year. As for going of the roids and losing gains, i don't know enough about roids to argue with you. All I can say is if he didn't actually go of them, then he is consuming a ton of concealer (or whatever they use to beat the test) or his trainers use legal suplements to maintain his gains.
 
Originally posted by: venk
I do feel the same way about them. Sosa has shown that he is a cheater when he was caught with the corked bat. If he cheats in one aspect of the game, why do you think he wont cheat in another? As for Giambi, my guess is his body didn't handle going of the 'roids real well, that is why his immune system has been completly shot this year. As for going of the roids and losing gains, i don't know enough about roids to argue with you. All I can say is if he didn't actually go of them, then he is consuming a ton of concealer (or whatever they use to beat the test) or his trainers use legal suplements to maintain his gains.
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:roll

his trainers can manage to help him keep his gains via steroids with legal substances.

then YTF would they even do Steroids?
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: cmdavid
there is NO question that Bonds has been using steroids.. ask any baseball player...
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ya that's it, anecdotes = without question the most conclusive evidence available.
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no, anecdotes is not what is used for conclusive evidence.. but when you know several pro-ball players and pro-ball coaches who themselves have used steroids and have good insight on the steroid usage percentages in baseball its pretty strong evidence against bonds...
conclusive evidence is the way his body has developed, the way his eye sight has improved, the way he's getting better and better every year, even though he's 40 years old..
for anybody to deny the man has used steroids is just naive...
 
Originally posted by: cmdavid
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: cmdavid
there is NO question that Bonds has been using steroids.. ask any baseball player...
Click to expand...


ya that's it, anecdotes = without question the most conclusive evidence available.
Click to expand...

no, anecdotes is not what is used for conclusive evidence.. but when you know several pro-ball players and pro-ball coaches who themselves have used steroids and have good insight on the steroid usage percentages in baseball its pretty strong evidence against bonds...
conclusive evidence is the way his body has developed, the way his eye sight has improved, the way he's getting better and better every year, even though he's 40 years old..
for anybody to deny the man has used steroids is just naive...
Click to expand...

damn, steroids improve eyesight?? my brother and sister in law are BOTH Opthomologists and NEITHER one believes that steroids improve eyesight, but of course your pro ball player friends and coaches know better than opthomologists.

 
to use your logic, i'm sure Pujols is 28 yrs old. no one his age could POSSIBLY be as developed as he is, no way someone his age could be as good as he is.

Vladimir Guerroro is OBVIOUSLY on steroids, look at how good he is.

 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: venk
I do feel the same way about them. Sosa has shown that he is a cheater when he was caught with the corked bat. If he cheats in one aspect of the game, why do you think he wont cheat in another? As for Giambi, my guess is his body didn't handle going of the 'roids real well, that is why his immune system has been completly shot this year. As for going of the roids and losing gains, i don't know enough about roids to argue with you. All I can say is if he didn't actually go of them, then he is consuming a ton of concealer (or whatever they use to beat the test) or his trainers use legal suplements to maintain his gains.
Click to expand...

:roll

his trainers can manage to help him keep his gains via steroids with legal substances.

then YTF would they even do Steroids?
Click to expand...

Like I said, i'm not an expert on Steroids, these are just educated guesses I am making. The idea was that he may not make furthur gains on legal substances, but he can maintain or possibly slow his decline with legal substances. The more likely scenario is that he is taking something to conceal them.
 
While stopping steroid use might not necessarily allow you to keep all of your gains, you would keep a good deal of them. Steroids are generally taken in cycles (of around 3 months, if I remember correctly), and not much is lost in the "off" period.
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: cmdavid
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: cmdavid
there is NO question that Bonds has been using steroids.. ask any baseball player...
Click to expand...


ya that's it, anecdotes = without question the most conclusive evidence available.
Click to expand...

no, anecdotes is not what is used for conclusive evidence.. but when you know several pro-ball players and pro-ball coaches who themselves have used steroids and have good insight on the steroid usage percentages in baseball its pretty strong evidence against bonds...
conclusive evidence is the way his body has developed, the way his eye sight has improved, the way he's getting better and better every year, even though he's 40 years old..
for anybody to deny the man has used steroids is just naive...
Click to expand...

damn, steroids improve eyesight?? my brother and sister in law are BOTH Opthomologists and NEITHER one believes that steroids improve eyesight, but of course your pro ball player friends and coaches know better than opthomologists.
Click to expand...

way to ignore a whole list of arguments and focus on one mis-statement..
steroids prevents the loss of eyesight.. and can potentially improve your eyesight..
HGH, based on claims and anecdotal evidence, can improve eyesight, as well as muscle tone, stamina and energy.

 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
to use your logic, i'm sure Pujols is 28 yrs old. no one his age could POSSIBLY be as developed as he is, no way someone his age could be as good as he is.

Vladimir Guerroro is OBVIOUSLY on steroids, look at how good he is.
Click to expand...
my argument isn't based solely on how good bonds is at his age.. my argument is based on how bonds has changed over the years.. its based on how he keeps getting better and better, and bigger and bigger, and a quicker swing at his age...

edit: like i said, its naive for anybody to believe that Bonds doesn't juice.. there's no need for me to prove my argument to you.. i believe that he juices and there's enough circumstantial evidence to convince me that he does...
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
damn, steroids improve eyesight??
Click to expand...
growth hormone. Anecdotal reports are all I've seen.

Fausto posted an interesting article a long time ago about a writer for a cycling mag who self-administered a bunch of stuff and wrote about the experience. I explicitly remember the guy saying the growth hormone improved his eyesight to the point where he didn't need his glasses for the duration of the experiment.

It's untestable. The IOC was threatening to finally have a test for Athens 2004. I can't confirm via google whether it actually happened, I tend to doubt it, they've been making that threat for over 10 years. And even if it had just been developed by the IOC, would MLB have access to it? What are the terms of the CBA, would they be able to push in a brand new test without Don Fehr and 50 lawyers screaming about the scientific validity of a new test? What about the method of testing, I'm guessing it would require a blood draw, and the CBA probably specifies urinalysis only.

Lots of uncertainty here, I would be very surprised if Bonds or anybody else in MLB were tested for growth hormone in their most recent drug test.
 
PGold, come on....Bonds is, at the very least, guilty by association - HIS trainer is directly involved in the whole Balco mess....If there were no other facts to consider, most people would still say he was probably using...but then, when you look at his DRAMATIC increase in muscle mass in the last 5 years - the enlargement of his head and facial features....all in his upper 30's....it just doesn't add up....

The guy is still a great player, in fact, the best offensive player in the game.

Giambi is noticably smaller than he was, as is Jeff Bagwell - I would guess both stopped using, and perhaps changed their training habits to de-emphasize mass.
 
even if he tests positive this time we will never know unless on the 2nd test he tests positive

so....

if he is on the juice right now he doesn't care. All he needs to do is stop using it today, and when the next test rolls around he'll be clean and worry free.
 
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