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Bonds is on the juice
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maddogchen
Diamond Member
Thats where you and I differ. I think who is ultimately responsible is the owners and the players union who set the rules. They have a whole system set up in the minor leagues but not in the majors, if they had set the same system up in the major leagues maybe this wouldn't have happened. They marketed the home runs to get people interested in baseball again after the strike. They were giving players bigger and bigger contracts based on performance. I think they created this whole enviroment for players to cheat because they knew there would be almost no punishment. In every other sport drug testing is going on and there are harsh punishments for it. but not in baseball prior to the last two years.
I think what I'm ultimately trying to say is if the cops took down the speed sign to a major road and did not put traffic cops to enforce that road, they are inviting people to speed. So who is more to blame when speeding occurs and accidents happen? the people speeding or the cops who did not enforce a common sense rule on that particular road?
PrelateBishop
Senior member
[Devil's Advocate]
So how does using strength enhancers improve one's hand-eye coordination exactly?
[/Devil's Advocate]
So how does using strength enhancers improve one's hand-eye coordination exactly?
[/Devil's Advocate]
Read the thread. This question was already answered. To sum it up, hand-eye coordination is not the only thing that affects getting a hit or homerun. Strength, bat speed, fatigue, etc are all things that affect hitting a ball. Especially when your bat speed and strength, among other things, should be decreasing as you get older.
SP33Demon
Lifer
All good points. I also want to add, especially for people saying that baseball "should have had a stricter policy", that it was the evolution of the roids that was the biggest factor, not the testing policy. THG (the anabolic roid at the heart of the matter) was undetectable by even the IOC until an anonymous track and field coach submitted a vial of it to the IOC in the summer of 2003. Then the drug was traced to BALCO, and the investigation began. Otherwise, the drug would have still been undetectable by modern day testing methods, no matter how strict the policy!! This drug would have evolved either way, no matter what type of policies were enacted, and I'm sure others will or have already evolved into the undetectable realm.
SP33Demon
Lifer
Babe Ruth was the greatest player ever. Look up his pitching stats, HR/AB%, and lifetime BatAvg compared to Bonds. He makes Bonds look like a little leaguer statistically, especially if you take out Bond's roid years. Bonds could also never hold Teddy Ballgame's jockstrap, he was the best pure hitter ever.
shilala
Lifer
Barry's a dick, he's always been a dick. He was a dick when he was drafted, and he was a dick when he left the Burgh.
I don't think that's ever been contested.
Did he knowingly take steroids? Probably.
Did anyone prove it? Nope.
Did you ever try to prove that you didn't do something that you didn't do, but have been accused of?
If not, you obviously haven't been married long 😀
Barry Bonds is as pure and talented as a ballplayer has ever been. He's the total package. He's also a total dick. He's a wife beating, stubborn, opinionated, arrogant wad.
That is why I believe what he's saying.
I think he knew full well what was going on. I think he had the test with Balco to make sure he couldn't get busted. I think he was careful enough and smart enough that he'll never get caught.
You can't compare Barry with Charlie Hustle. Pete fvcked up, got caught red handed, and was too proud to say "I did it". The avalanche of evidence was so overwhelming that MLB had no choice but to drop their golden boy on his head. You know how much that cost them?
Barry isn't going to go down that path. He's been coached. He said it in the grand jury- "I was a celebrity child ... with a famous father," he said. "I just don't get into other people's business because of my father's situation, see."
Fixed-"I was a celebrity child ... with a famous father," he said. "I know how to take care of myself so you boys don't get to stick it in my ass in the end."
This crap will only serve to make Barry even more famous and more rich, because it will take the focus off the fact that he is an incredible asshole.
I don't think that's ever been contested.
Did he knowingly take steroids? Probably.
Did anyone prove it? Nope.
Did you ever try to prove that you didn't do something that you didn't do, but have been accused of?
If not, you obviously haven't been married long 😀
Barry Bonds is as pure and talented as a ballplayer has ever been. He's the total package. He's also a total dick. He's a wife beating, stubborn, opinionated, arrogant wad.
That is why I believe what he's saying.
I think he knew full well what was going on. I think he had the test with Balco to make sure he couldn't get busted. I think he was careful enough and smart enough that he'll never get caught.
You can't compare Barry with Charlie Hustle. Pete fvcked up, got caught red handed, and was too proud to say "I did it". The avalanche of evidence was so overwhelming that MLB had no choice but to drop their golden boy on his head. You know how much that cost them?
Barry isn't going to go down that path. He's been coached. He said it in the grand jury- "I was a celebrity child ... with a famous father," he said. "I just don't get into other people's business because of my father's situation, see."
Fixed-"I was a celebrity child ... with a famous father," he said. "I know how to take care of myself so you boys don't get to stick it in my ass in the end."
This crap will only serve to make Barry even more famous and more rich, because it will take the focus off the fact that he is an incredible asshole.
SP33Demon
Lifer
How can you say that Bonds, admitting to using anabolic steroids, isn't worse than Rose? There is just as much evidence that says Bonds did them as in the Rose case, remember, we still don't have all the details of the case. This was leaked testimony! God knows how much evidence the Feds have sealed against Bonds, and when that's released sht's really going to hit the fan.
Exactly. No one is doubting his great pitch recognition and hand-eye coordination--the thing that makes him such a dangerous hitter is his bat speed and strength (which should be deteriorated at his age). Since he has such great bat speed he has more time to see the ball and wait on it and recognize the pitch and then swing--with power. I've seen this analyzed on ESPN, and his ability to wait on the ball is unmatched--he can wait till the ball is further thru the strike zone then any other player and still put a good swing at the ball and pull it (i.e., not be late on the ball and slap it the other way).
MrDingleDangle
Lifer
an article by jack mcdowell, first article I have read coming from a players standpoint that isnt just blindly trusting the players
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne...rov=yhoo&type=lgns
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne...rov=yhoo&type=lgns
Bonds is truly a great player, with or without steriods. But to say Babe Ruth is "so far behind Barry B, it aint even funny" is just ridiculous. Ruth had more homeruns in a year then entire teams. He had a .342 career BA, a 2.28 ERA, led the leage in HRs for 12 years total, amongst other ridiculous stats. Babe Ruth changed the game of baseball. On 'roids Ruth, Williams, and Bonds are the 3 best players of all time. Off 'roids, he just doesn't stack up. Are you sure you actually follow baseball, or are you just a stubborn Bonds fan?
And to say he didn't play against/with some of the best players in history. How about Gehrig, Cobb, Jimmie Fox, Rogers Hornsby, to name a few?
Lets get one thing straight. Barry Bonds admitted to using two substances that contained some deisgner steroid. He never admitted he took any steroids knowingly. Unlike Giambi and now Marion who were injecting stuff. But Bonds and Sheffield both have said they didn't even know they were taking steroids. As a matter of fact Bonds said he used the two substances but didn't even think they worked, lol. And no offense but to me Babe Ruth's records are a joke. If he had of played against the best ball players which were from the Negro Leagues and put up those numbers then maybe you could put up an argument. As a matter of fact many historians will tell you the greatest hitter of that era was Josh Gibson. Bonds plays in era where the greatest of the great from all over the world are playing the game in the majors. To me major league baseball was nothing more than a pop warner league in the Ruth era. You ever look at some of those "stats?". One year Ruth hit like 50 some hrs and the next guy had like 20 :roll:, looks like he was really playing against some real tough and talented competition. And I don't even like Barry Bonds as a person, but he is the greatest baseball player of our era and outside of Wille Mays, probably the best of alltime. If your gonna build the perfect ball player Bonds is the blue print. I can name at least 6-7 others who would come before Babe Ruth. Babe Ruth, what a joke. Nothing more than another Rocky Marciano, who would have got knocked the f out had he fought any of the top heavy weights in their prime down through the ages.
I agree with this very much. Baseball has lost any importance it ever had for me. I used to be an avid, and I do mean very avid, baseball fan until the strike - that's when I knew that baseball as a fan's game was over. The subsequent years have just shown that today's baseball is nothing but a farce and that now even baseball's most revered records and honors like acceptance into the HOF mean nothing.
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