News Boeing used to be good, but these days they deliver trash

Ken g6

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Thebobo

Lifer
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And don't forget the 787 was grounded for the battery problem a few years back.

There is a documentary about Boeing a while back and it was pretty harsh about the quality of planes built on the east coast, north carolina I think it was. They took a hidden camera into the factory and talked to the techs. Many saying they wouldn't fly on a plane built there. They just don't have the pool of quality workers they have out in boeing's main plant at Everett.

 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
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Purely anecdotal, but one of the guys in the shop I tech rep for, used to work at Boeing. He had to support an Op in San Diego and would only go there by train from Seattle due to his knowledge of shit he used to see while working at Boeing.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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It's what naturally happens when companies become bloated with no real drive to innovate (lack of competition).

Same can be said for our cable companies.

Same can be said for big banks and the great recession.

What was our answer to the problem of bloated industry? MAKE THEM BIGGER!
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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It's what naturally happens when companies become bloated with no real drive to innovate (lack of competition).

Same can be said for our cable companies.

Same can be said for big banks and the great recession.

What was our answer to the problem of bloated industry? MAKE THEM BIGGER!
Anti Trust..what's that.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Anti Trust..what's that.

No shit. I'm all for cracking down on monopolies and oligopolies here in the states. It's a shame people like Elizabeth Warren are too stupid and think social media is anti-trust - ignoring the 10 other GIANT elephants in the room.

I wish it was just a US problem, but Europe as of late has been just as big of a shithead with allowing the likes of Bayer and Monsanto.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
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No shit. I'm all for cracking down on monopolies and oligopolies here in the states. It's a shame people like Elizabeth Warren are too stupid and think social media is anti-trust - ignoring the 10 other GIANT elephants in the room.

I wish it was just a US problem, but Europe as of late has been just as big of a shithead with allowing the likes of Bayer and Monsanto.
I like how you agreed with me, then threw in a gratuitous hit on a Democrat presidential candidate who's mandate is way more far reaching than your little mind can comprehend.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
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LOL, Air Force cancels contract with Airbus when Boeing screams "not fair!", awards new contract to Boeing (lowest bidder), and then complains when Boeing delivers trash.
 

whm1974

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You don't want to do "angles and dangles" on a submarine fresh out of the shipyard. All sorts of things come out of the overhead like pieces of welding rod, nuts, bolts, and other miscellaneous debris.
I would think companies, especially those who have been around for a long time would take some pride in their products and workmanship.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
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It's what naturally happens when companies become bloated with no real drive to innovate (lack of competition).

Same can be said for our cable companies.

Same can be said for big banks and the great recession.

What was our answer to the problem of bloated industry? MAKE THEM BIGGER!

as a company, they may be "bloated", but the problem here seems more like poor management and greed. they do have real drive to innovate however, the 737 max is 20% more fuel efficient than the previous 737 model making it more attractive to customers. isn't that one of the primary benefits of capitalism, making one's products more efficient (not just cheaper)?

as for competition, there are a dozen aerospace companies in the world that generate $10 Billion plus annually, with several direct competitors in the commercial market. Boeing may be the biggest, but they do have competition.
 
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Muse

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Jeez, I haven't been flying a lot, 'tis true. My nephew's wife told me I've got the smallest carbon footprint of any one she knows. I'm not sure I want to keep it that way, but I guess I really am proud of that. My car has sat in my driveway for 2+ weeks now. I have gotten around on my bicycle the whole time.
 

DrunkenSano

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Aug 8, 2008
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RIP Boeing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48752932

US regulators have uncovered a possible new flaw in Boeing's troubled 737 Max aircraft that is likely to push back test flights.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said it had identified the "potential risk" during simulator tests, but did not reveal details.

Boeing's top-selling aircraft was grounded in March after two crashes.

The company is upgrading the aircraft's flight control system, which is the focus of crash investigators.

The control system can help prevent a plane from stalling.

In a tweet, the FAA said: "On the most recent issue, the FAA's process is designed to discover and highlight potential risks. The FAA recently found a potential risk that Boeing must mitigate."

A source familiar with the situation told the BBC: ""During simulator testing last week at Boeing, FAA test pilots discovered an issue that affected their ability to quickly and easily follow the required recovery procedures for runaway stabiliser trim (ie, to stop stabilisers on the aircraft's tail moving uncontrollably).

"The issue was traced to how data is being processed by the flight computer."

Last month, the FAA indicated that approval of Boeing's changes to the 737 Max could come in late June. That would have allowed test flights in early July.

There were initial hopes among airlines that the 737 Max would be back in the air during the summer, but that timetable was pushed back to late this year even before the latest news.

Image copyright FAA
Reuters, which first reported the new issue, said during an FAA pilot simulation in which the software was activated, it had taken longer than expected to recover the aircraft.

Other sources said the problem was linked to the aircraft's computing power and whether the processor possessed enough capacity to keep up.

Boeing said "we are working closely with the FAA to safely return the Max to service" and that it believed a software fix would address the problem.

But the FAA will be looking into whether it is a hardware issue.






Media captionBoeing chief Dennis Muilenburg: "We apologise to the families"
If regulators are unsatisfied with the software fix, the microprocessor unit will have to be replaced and the grounding may stretch on for months longer than previously thought.

The loss of Ethiopian flight ET302 in March was the second fatal accident involving a 737 Max in the space of five months. A near identical aircraft, owned by the Indonesian carrier Lion Air, went down in the sea off Jakarta in October 2018.

Analysis
Theo Leggett, business correspondent

The news that the FAA has found a "potential risk" in software developed for the 737 Max should come as no surprise.

Firstly, fixing the plane is clearly not a simple process. Boeing has been working on the issue for the past eight months - and if a quick and easy solution had been available, perhaps the second of the two accidents could have been avoided.

Meanwhile, the regulator itself is under intense pressure and its credibility is at stake. Its own actions certifying the aircraft and its relationship with Boeing have come under fierce scrutiny.

In deciding whether the aircraft is safe to fly again, it needs to be absolutely rigorous - and needs to be seen to be rigorous as well.

There's a great deal at stake here. The longer the 737 Max remains grounded, the more the costs will mount up, for Boeing and for the airlines which were counting on using the new plane.

But 346 lives have already been lost, and no-one - not Boeing, not the airlines and not the regulator - can afford another accident.

Preliminary reports into both accidents have suggested they were triggered by a flight control system deploying at the wrong time, due to a faulty sensor.

The FAA has been criticised for its lack of oversight and the certification process that cleared the Max to fly.

Earlier this month, Captain Chesley Sullenberger, whose landing of a crippled aircraft on New York's Hudson River was turned into a Hollywood film, told a Congressional hearing into the 737 Max that the "crashes are demonstrable evidence that our current system of design and certification has failed us".

Restoring confidence
Airlines, regulatory authorities and equipment makers met in Montreal on Wednesday to discuss the Boeing 737 Max situation, a gathering organised by industry trade group the International Air Transport Association (IATA).

Following the meeting, IATA director general Alexandre de Juniac said: "The Boeing 737 Max tragedies weigh heavily on an industry that holds safety as its top priority.

"We trust the Federal Aviation Administration, in its role as the certifying regulator, to ensure the aircraft's safe return to service. And we respect the duty of regulators around the world to make independent decisions on FAA's recommendations.

"At the same time, aviation is a globally integrated system that relies on global standards, including mutual recognition, trust, and reciprocity among safety regulators.

"Aviation cannot function efficiently without this co-ordinated effort, and restoring public confidence demands it."

Not sure how many more punches Boeing will be able to take. They seriously should just scrap the 737 Max and put it in the dumpster, that model's reputation has already been tarnished beyond recovery.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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RIP Boeing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48752932



Not sure how many more punches Boeing will be able to take. They seriously should just scrap the 737 Max and put it in the dumpster, that model's reputation has already been tarnished beyond recovery.
Once it starts flying again very few people will care. US Air had four fatal crashes over four years and people kept flying them. People still fly on Lion Air too.

The biggest risk to Boeing is if they keep finding more issues, or worse don't find the other issues until another incident occurs. There is too much reliance on software these days.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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LOL, Air Force cancels contract with Airbus when Boeing screams "not fair!", awards new contract to Boeing (lowest bidder), and then complains when Boeing delivers trash.
Pure politics drove that descision. You can thank my Sen. Patty Murry. I'm all for buy American, but the 767 airframe already existed, yet Boeing had major problem delivering them and of course over ran the budget.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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RIP Boeing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48752932



Not sure how many more punches Boeing will be able to take. They seriously should just scrap the 737 Max and put it in the dumpster, that model's reputation has already been tarnished beyond recovery.

That’s a bit premature. They seem to be weathering this well, though I think Wall Street is also betting that Boeing is “too big to fail”.

Still, it’s kind of crazy to think that Boeing lacks a viable, competitive single aisle workhorse jet when that used to be their bread and butter.

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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,413
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That’s a bit premature. They seem to be weathering this well, though I think Wall Street is also betting that Boeing is “too big to fail”.

Still, it’s kind of crazy to think that Boeing lacks a viable, competitive single aisle workhorse jet when that used to be their bread and butter.

Edit:
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Tried to milk the 737 airframe too long. Reminds me of Intel with the Pentium 4.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,518
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[

You don't want to do "angles and dangles" on a submarine fresh out of the shipyard. All sorts of things come out of the overhead like pieces of welding rod, nuts, bolts, and other miscellaneous debris.


Most guys I know refuse to work in the shaft alleys but I gotta say, my tool box is all the more richer simply from going magnet fishing in the bilges before the shafts get pulled out.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,308
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[

You don't want to do "angles and dangles" on a submarine fresh out of the shipyard. All sorts of things come out of the overhead like pieces of welding rod, nuts, bolts, and other miscellaneous debris.


Angles and dangles are always fun! :p

Even that first dive to test depth after a shipyard. Nothing like a little excitement as the hull creaks and pops as you look around for leaks.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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It's another sign of conservative rot plaguing the country. Captured and gutted regulators combined with unlimited corporate greed.
If it's a new Boeing, I am not going.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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Pure politics drove that descision. You can thank my Sen. Patty Murry. I'm all for buy American, but the 767 airframe already existed, yet Boeing had major problem delivering them and of course over ran the budget.
Boeing ate all the cost over runs as it was an internally funded development.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,519
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That’s a bit premature. They seem to be weathering this well, though I think Wall Street is also betting that Boeing is “too big to fail”.

Still, it’s kind of crazy to think that Boeing lacks a viable, competitive single aisle workhorse jet when that used to be their bread and butter.

Edit:
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cf8420138ec7008137a2da6cbb53fab6.jpg
Considering the Max still has a historic backlog and has better performance than the 320 family in the -7 and -8 sizes. I think they have a viable and competitive single aisle aircraft.

Sooner or later this issue will be fixed and they will start delivering record numbers of them again.