Boehner [doesn't] fold on taxes

[Engineer]

So I take his threat to be this--I will not agree to raise taxes on ANYONE, and if you do not agree... I will force taxes to be raised on EVERYONE.

I don't see how this sells or where his leverage comes from. Rich folks don't want a second recession either so his backers will back off.

I'm saying that these guys will drive off the cliff and then pull the rip-cord on a partial tax cut for everyone. By doing this, everyone saves face....except the steep losses in the stock market from this game of chicken. Makes me wonder if I should sell most of my mutual funds and wait until after the first of the year to buy back in. :hmm:

 

[Jadow]

http://news.yahoo.com/boehner-raising-tax-rates-unacceptable-173931049.html

NO INCREASE IN RATES IS ACCEPTABLE.

just go off the cliff and rates automatically go up. obama gets what he wants by doing nothing.

 

[Engineer]

just go off the cliff and rates automatically go up. obama gets what he wants by doing nothing.

Well, not really. He then has to get everyone on board for a middle class ($250,000 and lower) tax cut to get where he wants to go. We'll see if the GOP is dumb enough to not take him up on that offer IF we dive off the cliff. I personally think it would be suicide for the GOP if they didn't agree to the cuts after the cliff (assuming that we make it there). Who knows what's going to happen at this point.

 

[Howard]

Why didn't he cry?

 

[Lemon law]

Why didn't he cry?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The time for wheeping John to cry has not arrived yet. But when the GOP house thinks they can play business as usual with Obama and the dems over the digital cliff, the GOP will discover they have a best a busted straight, while the dems have a royal flush.

As its precisely that 1/2% of the American people who in the past have backed Boenher and McConnell that have the most to lose if all of fiscal cliff provisions kick in.

This is no longer trench warfare statemate gridlock, simply because time constraint work against the rich backers of the GOP. And when the pragmatic very Rich realize they are playing a losing game, their best strategy is to cut their loses.

Boehner and McConnell may resort to the initial crying a river strategy, but when it falls on deaf ears, it will be replaced by later GOP pure panic and later pragmatism by mid-December.

 

[UberNeuman]

Boehner has promised that he will never, never.... fold over his use of tanning lotion....

\"Give me tanning lotion or give me tears!"

 

[hal2kilo]

Boehner has promised that he will never, never.... fold over his use of tanning lotion....

I think we should send him cases of liquor and see how long it takes for his Liver to burst.

 

[Farang]

I'm saying that these guys will drive off the cliff and then pull the rip-cord on a partial tax cut for everyone. By doing this, everyone saves face....except the steep losses in the stock market from this game of chicken. Makes me wonder if I should sell most of my mutual funds and wait until after the first of the year to buy back in. :hmm:

Yes this is really bad timing for me.. I'm trying not to dip into some stocks for some extra cash. This could force me to sell at the worst possible time.

Then again I made a killing off the debt ceiling crisis, so I guess I should thank them

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm saying that these guys will drive off the cliff and then pull the rip-cord on a partial tax cut for everyone. By doing this, everyone saves face....except the steep losses in the stock market from this game of chicken. Makes me wonder if I should sell most of my mutual funds and wait until after the first of the year to buy back in. :hmm:

Market insiders make money from sudden swings in market direction. They love 'em, pray for 'em, do their best to create 'em, because they can move faster than everybody else. Selling short in a panic & then buying in low are classic strategies to win coming & going. Savvy hedge funders cleaned up shorting the piss out of financials on the way down & then buying them for a song once prices were suitably depressed & the bailout took effect...

Any time the pundits are telling you to sell is probably a good time to buy & vice versa.

 

[Farang]

Market insiders make money from sudden swings in market direction. They love 'em, pray for 'em, do their best to create 'em, because they can move faster than everybody else. Selling short in a panic & then buying in low are classic strategies to win coming & going. Savvy hedge funders cleaned up shorting the piss out of financials on the way down & then buying them for a song once prices were suitably depressed & the bailout took effect...

Any time the pundits are telling you to sell is probably a good time to buy & vice versa.

This is how I made money during the debt ceiling talks.. it was obvious the crash was directly related to the credit downgrade and the daily bad news regarding the talks. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but if I had some money to gamble I'd probably go in blue chips once Republicans force this thing to the brink because the same thing will happen again.

 

[techs]

The fiscal cliff is not equally bad to both parties. The Republican who were responsible knew they couldn't keep f*cking around with the debt ceiling so the basically agreed to a 'poison pill' so they could raise the debt ceiling while saying they didn't cave because the fiscal cliff was going to work for them. They were hoping something would change. Either a Republican President or a Republican Senate. They lost on both. And now they have to pay the piper.

On January 1 they lose their tax cuts. So, on the day after what are they going to say? We are crashing the economy and military because we will not accept a tax cut for 99 percent of Americans unless you give us a cut for the top one percent? Holding out for that one percent while economic chaos happens will sink them. In fact, the non neo-cons will be swamped with lobbyists begging them to approve Obamas plan. And the Tea Party reps will also hear it from many of their fund raisers.

 

[quest55720]

Looking at it now Obama has the advantage. He does not have to lift a finger till January 1. Then the pressure will be on congress to get something done. The pressure will come from these big donors on the Republican side. Who would lose millions of dollars if the economy tanks. The Republicans will also have huge pressure from the NEO-CONs because of the military spending cuts. That and the timing is just to perfect for Obama. He can pitch his plan when he does the SotU address. Just like he defined Romney early on he can define the Republicans early on. When those tax hikes kick in those house members will hear from people in their districts why their taxes went up to protect the rich.

Boehner and the Republicans are fooling themselves if they think they can protect the rich from tax hikes.

 

[Engineer]

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-must-lead-effort-avoid-fiscal-cliff-top-164653450--business.html

Again, NO TAX HIKES ON THE WEALTHY.

We're going over the cliff boys and girls.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Go over the cliff. Democrats will get ALL of the revenue increases they could have dreamed of without having to do a damn thing.

Then they can try and push through a reduction of rates for middle income families back to the Bush tax rates. There is simply NO way the Republicans can block this without taking SEVERE political fallout from it.

The Republicans have NO leverage and their about to find that out very abruptly. The Democrats should not budge one inch.

 

[dank69]

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-must-lead-effort-avoid-fiscal-cliff-top-164653450--business.html

Again, NO TAX HIKES ON THE WEALTHY.

We're going over the cliff boys and girls.

TBH I have no problem seeing my taxes go back up to the rates before Bush if it means we can start lowering the deficit. As long as those rates don't tank the economy, that is.

 

[First]

No, the House will assuredly increase taxes on the wealthy because they'll look more awful than Obama if they don't. Sticking up for rich dudes' tax rates is a political loser, both in terms of theatrics and actual House seats (of which the Republicans lost 8 of in this election, btw, which was a third of their total majority).

The only scenario where tax rates aren't raised on the rich is if there are significant deductions that are closed on them that would generate the same revenue as an increase from 35% to 39.6%. Which deductions those would be I don't know. Though capital gains and dividends may be a part of that, I would hope the increased taxes on the rich is more than just capital gains and dividends. Their actual income needs to be taxed more.

Also, this whole tax fight is nothing but political theatrics on both sides. They both say they want to reduce tax rates, with the exception of the rich on the Repub side, but Repubs also seem to give themselves an out by raising taxes via closing deductions. So really, both these parties are going to raise taxes, probably on everybody at some point.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The "Fiscal Cliff" issue is liable to result in the Republicans further portraying themselves as "The Party of the 1%".

 

[Ausm]

Lol, this. The guy is peddling the same bullshit that lost Romney the election. We can raise taxes by lowering them for everyone!

We can raise revenue by lowing taxes and also Tax cuts pay for themselves.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

We can raise revenue by lowing taxes and also Tax cuts pay for themselves.

That's assuming that individuals' tax savings result in domestic consumer spending on domestically produced goods/services and/or domestic capital investment.

 

[JEDI]

http://seattletimes.com/html/politics/2019627006_apusboehner.html

Pretty easy to see a coalition of Democrats and moderate Republicans passing big changes, bypassing tea party and Eric Cantor types

edit: re-read the article, he's really just positioning himself to accuse Democrats of refusing compromise

so obama wont sign a bill that DOESNT raise taxes on the top 2%.
Boehner wont allow tax hike on the top 2%.

guess what.. you now have a clock.. if nothing gets done then the Bush Tax cuts ends in Dec.

We've been fighting over this for the past 2 yrs.
PLEASE LET IT END!!!!! so we can move on...

 

[Jhhnn]

No, the House will assuredly increase taxes on the wealthy because they'll look more awful than Obama if they don't. Sticking up for rich dudes' tax rates is a political loser, both in terms of theatrics and actual House seats (of which the Republicans lost 8 of in this election, btw, which was a third of their total majority).

The only scenario where tax rates aren't raised on the rich is if there are significant deductions that are closed on them that would generate the same revenue as an increase from 35% to 39.6%. Which deductions those would be I don't know. Though capital gains and dividends may be a part of that, I would hope the increased taxes on the rich is more than just capital gains and dividends. Their actual income needs to be taxed more.

Also, this whole tax fight is nothing but political theatrics on both sides. They both say they want to reduce tax rates, with the exception of the rich on the Repub side, but Repubs also seem to give themselves an out by raising taxes via closing deductions. So really, both these parties are going to raise taxes, probably on everybody at some point.

For the true Bush constituency, the uber-wealthy, earned income rates aren't the issue. Rates on LTCG's, dividends & interest are the issue. Check Mitt's disclosures to see what I mean. Only a very small part of the ownership class' income is earned income. Repubs will fight tax increases on non- earned income with their dying breaths.

It's what America's wealthiest paid guys like Rove to try to accomplish with the Romney push- push necessary tax increases down the scale, onto somebody, anybody who isn't them.

The only way that increases on tippy-top incomes will happen is to let the Bush cuts expire. Period. Then claw back retroactive cuts for the middle class. It's smart politics, and it's good for the Country.

I was a working adult when Ronnie took office, and I sure as Hell didn't notice Rich people having a tough time of it back then, when they paid much higher effective tax rates. Now that their share of national income has exploded, tax increases are even less likely to do them or the rest of us any harm today.

 

[tweaker2]

Even when Congress was staffed by reasonable humans income tax code reform was a form of WWI trench warfare that lasted multiple years. Every single Congressman will have literally dozens of corporations, unions, trade associations or some other special interest groups fighting tooth and nail for every single exemption and tax break. It is more than fulltime employment for lobbyists.

When we can't get agreement on simple matters like the Dream Act, the transportation bill, resolving the sequestration problem, fixing the Bush tax cuts, it is Pollyannish to think Congress will ever reform the tax code. Nah, it would be a total waste of time resulting in frustration for all.

A war in which the very rich, who are powerful and influential and thus highly corruptive have been winning hands down, even before the middle class and the poor acknowledged a war against them was in progress.

Rule by the minority ultra rich and powerful over the majority middle class and poor is the ultimate goal in this war. The easiest path toward this goal? Take away the power of the vote through deception, outright suppression and disenfranchisement, corruption at all levels of gov't, gerrymandering and saturation propaganda campaigns just to name a few.

All of which the Repubs have used in this past election cycle.