I've driven the AWD 3 series and even then the TL is no match in terms of handling, response, and agility.
I've driven the AWD 3 series and even then the TL is no match in terms of handling, response, and agility.
it's a luxury/status thing. you get what you pay for - something AT doesn't like to do/disapproves of. i can't drive a camry or an accord after owning a bmw. i mean i could, but why would i. might as well compare a bwm to a rickshaw. a lexus i might well consider, but come on. camry/accord? to a 5 series? or even a 3 series. no way.
All Acuras (save the discontinued NSX) are FWD. I'm not a big BMW fan myself, despite my love of the M coupe, but there really is no comparing a FWD car to a RWD car when sporting is in question...
Personally, I'm a RWD guy. Brands like Acura, Honda, Toyota, etc never make my radar when I go window shopping for cars...
BMWs are good cars if you are limited to what are essentially the most fun to drive family sedans or maybe family coupes but nothing special as far as sprots cars go for their price. Of course with sports cars, you dont have the people carrying or trunk space but they wil be more fun to drive.
For example I'd rather have a GTO than a 330i and I'd rather have a Cayman or Boxster than a Z4.
BMW appeal is the brand image due to an incredible ad campagin. It's sorta like the ipods. They may not be the best at everything but the ads make the masses think otherwise.
How bout Lexus? All models except for the ES are AWD or RWD and reliability is top notch. Also, its a car nobody realyl remembers but the Toyota MR2 in all its iterations was the benchmark for affordable fun.
For example I'd rather have a GTO than a 330i and I'd rather have a Cayman or Boxster than a Z4.
BMW appeal is the brand image due to an incredible ad campagin. It's sorta like the ipods. They may not be the best at everything but the ads make the masses think otherwise.
How bout Lexus? All models except for the ES are AWD or RWD and reliability is top notch. Also, its a car nobody realyl remembers but the Toyota MR2 in all its iterations was the benchmark for affordable fun.
heh, you are partly right. The 3xx and 5xx series are nothing but souped up sedans, not that much better than your higher end Japanese sedans. You need to go M series, M3 or M5 (M5 is part of 5 series I guess) to really get the most out of superior Germany performace.
MDX, RDX, RL aren't acura's now? that's 50% of their lineup.
and in the 90's, integra's and the 3-series often compete in the same class in many races. just because it's front-wheel drive doesn't mean it can't go fast around a corner. the new mini cooper is acclaimed for its "go-kart like handling"... im pretty sure the new mini isn't RWD.
- Jun 23, 2004
- 5,464
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For those who've never driven the new Camry in a V-6 LE or XLE..........Go drive one, then come back here & talk.
FWIW, the 540i (and their 528i before it) had some creeks & groans that were rather unbecoming to me in a car of that class. They simply loosen up a bit over time. No biggie. Japanese cars do too, but to a lesser extent. (at least in a Toyota/Lexus)
As for the interior noise (besides engine)....due to the nature of later model BMW's, there is very little tire size on the road anymore. Width? Sure. Thickness? Not. So road noise is transmitted easily thru to the cabin. Still doesn't mean it's *fairly* quiet, but if you want quiet...........again.........I'm gonna revert to the Camry.
I can't speak on the Accords 'cuz I haven't ridden in anything newer than an '04, but the Toyota I can definitely vouch for.
And as for gotta have.............it's funny that so many people in this thread tout them so much, yet in past threads pose them as something foolish to buy.
FWIW, the 540i (and their 528i before it) had some creeks & groans that were rather unbecoming to me in a car of that class. They simply loosen up a bit over time. No biggie. Japanese cars do too, but to a lesser extent. (at least in a Toyota/Lexus)
As for the interior noise (besides engine)....due to the nature of later model BMW's, there is very little tire size on the road anymore. Width? Sure. Thickness? Not. So road noise is transmitted easily thru to the cabin. Still doesn't mean it's *fairly* quiet, but if you want quiet...........again.........I'm gonna revert to the Camry.
I can't speak on the Accords 'cuz I haven't ridden in anything newer than an '04, but the Toyota I can definitely vouch for.
And as for gotta have.............it's funny that so many people in this thread tout them so much, yet in past threads pose them as something foolish to buy.
that's my biggest beef w/ BMW (and german electrial fun). I was in my friend's 99 323 and 328... very very dated. I would go as far as to say several generations behind in interior styling.
they drive like no other though of course.. but even the current ones.. don't like the interior that much.
One can defend the appeal of the BMW without thinking they are a good car to buy. I liked the BMW a lot but it wasn't worth the price tag to me.
Originally posted by: redgtxdi
Glad somebody else knows EXACTLY what I'm talkin' about!!
well, how old are you?
RichUK
Lifer
- Feb 14, 2005
- 10,341
- 678
- 126
What do you guys think of the new 3 series coupe (2006)? I really want one but i can't.
I'm a bit disappointed that the 335 is going to be turbocharged from what i have read, BMW's principles are based around N/A engines. Turbo?d cars only give you a power band at certain rev ranges, and the power band is usually a massive boost with prior turbo lag and shorter compared to N/A engines. Ohh well it should be interesting. I?m annoyed I can?t get one, I?ll be getting the previous shape, even though it will be new. I need the new model to show off, otherwise i'll feel inadequate
I'm a bit disappointed that the 335 is going to be turbocharged from what i have read, BMW's principles are based around N/A engines. Turbo?d cars only give you a power band at certain rev ranges, and the power band is usually a massive boost with prior turbo lag and shorter compared to N/A engines. Ohh well it should be interesting. I?m annoyed I can?t get one, I?ll be getting the previous shape, even though it will be new. I need the new model to show off, otherwise i'll feel inadequate
I think it depends on whether you view a car as a means to get from point A to point B, or as something to have fun in. The 5 series in particular manages to be fun-to-drive while maintaining a smooth ride and low levels of NVH. I've also driven the 330 and it's one heck of a complete drivers car. I own an '03 Accord V6 and, while it's a good car, it's no BMW.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
Originally posted by: RichUK
What do you guys think of the new 3 series coupe (2006)? I really want one but i can't.
I'm a bit disappointed that the 335 is going to be turbocharged from what i have read, BMW's principles are based around N/A engines. Turbo?d cars only give you a power band at certain rev ranges, and the power band is usually a massive boost with prior turbo lag and shorter compared to N/A engines. Ohh well it should be interesting. I?m annoyed I can?t get one, I?ll be getting the previous shape, even though it will be new. I need the new model to show off, otherwise i'll feel inadequate
I like the M3. Very special car.
On the 335. The car is engineered to drive like an N/A vehicle with little to no noticeable lag. Power is still linear, but torque comes on very early and stays at peak till 5k rpm. It actually a very clever motor, with GDI and twin turbos.
BMW's are a driver's car. IMHO, they are the Ultimate Driving Machine. For others it's a status symbol.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
So?
Just because I eat my first corned beef sandwich at Joe's World's Best Deli do I have the right to declare it the ultimate corned beef sandwich?
RichUK
Lifer
- Feb 14, 2005
- 10,341
- 678
- 126
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: RichUK
What do you guys think of the new 3 series coupe (2006)? I really want one but i can't.
I'm a bit disappointed that the 335 is going to be turbocharged from what i have read, BMW's principles are based around N/A engines. Turbo?d cars only give you a power band at certain rev ranges, and the power band is usually a massive boost with prior turbo lag and shorter compared to N/A engines. Ohh well it should be interesting. I?m annoyed I can?t get one, I?ll be getting the previous shape, even though it will be new. I need the new model to show off, otherwise i'll feel inadequate
I like the M3. Very special car.
On the 335. The car is engineered to drive like an N/A vehicle with little to no noticeable lag. Power is still linear, but torque comes on very early and stays at peak till 5k rpm. It actually a very clever motor, with GDI and twin turbos.
Twin turbo?s :shocked:
I can see the logic, smaller turbo?s spin up a lot quicker and therefore reduce lag big time, it also depends on the bearings that are used, different designs etc. Like the old ones would use a 270 degree bearing, later ones used a 360 degree bearing and the newer designs use ceramic ball bearings.
For instance I have driven an early Escort RS Cosworth, which was using a T30 and you can feel the lag in the lower rev range, but when the turbo kicks in? it does very much so. However if the new 335 ends up using say two T15/20 equivalents, I suppose it would be hard to notice. So perhaps there will be a lot more power in the higher rev range, along with the turbo lag being greatly reduced, if even noticeable.
I have driven the E46 M3 (well three, one with SMG) and this can be revved all the way upto 9,000rpm +. I was able to do 110Mph in third gear with three more gears to go. I wonder whether this engine design would be able to peak that high.
I have drive a few turbo cars and it is a love hate relationship. Some of them are just not made for driving around the town genteelly.
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