BMW 7 series uses direct injection

[puffpio]

Are there any other cars in the US market has uses direct injection (fuel is inejcted directly into the cylinder as opposed to the intake manifold) advatnages are more power, less fuel consumption, less pollutants. disadvantage expensive injctors, needs low sulpher gas.

I've always thought that US gas was too high in sulpher to support DI. I guess it's changed now? so what other cars have DI?

do any cars have DI and turbocharged? variable cam profiles (not just timing, but lift and duration too..) from what I gather then BMW 7 series V12 has variable cam timing, and lift, but not duration.

Dream engine : infinityely variable cam timing, duration, and list (so no more throttle body ala 7 series). infinitely variable ignition timing, direct injection, and turbo charged.

too much to ask?

 

[astroview]

I'm not really knowledgeable about cars, how much more efficient is this?

 

[Eli]

Don't virtually all diesels use direct injection?

 

[Mayhem1869]

why yes eli, they do

if pio!pio!'s dream engine was built it wouldn't need spark plugs or ignition either

it would be a diesel

 

[zCypher]

For GM motors I've heard of throttle body injection (TBI) and tuned port injection (TPI). In contrast to what you're talking about (direct injection), how does that fit in or compare? You mentioned something about throttle body injection in one series.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Mayhem1869
why yes eli, they do

if pio!pio!'s dream engine was built it wouldn't need spark plugs or ignition either

it would be a diesel

Not necessarily.

Infinately variable valve timing, in all aspects(duration, lift, timing), would be a huge gain in the world of the Internal Combustion Engine.

We could already do infinately variable ignition timing, but with any given engine design there is a certain range that would be best...

I wasn't aware that gasoline had much sulpher in it, I thought that was diesel fuel related.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Eli
Don't virtually all diesels use direct injection?

Virtually? I thought they all did.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: astroview
I'm not really knowledgeable about cars, how much more efficient is this?

20% more power, 5% less fuel from the engine, ceteris paribus

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Eli
Don't virtually all diesels use direct injection?

Virtually? I thought they all did.

heh, yeah.. I was just trying to avoid leaving myself open for one of those "Well there is this one engine that they use in Pakistan..." comments.. lol

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: pio!pio!

Dream engine : infinityely variable cam timing, duration, and list (so no more throttle body ala 7 series). infinitely variable ignition timing, direct injection, and turbo charged.

too much to ask?

it'll come - via electrically/hydraulically operated valves

btw the BMW dont have no throttle, throttling is done through the Valve opening - dunno which engine does that though

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: pio!pio!

Dream engine : infinityely variable cam timing, duration, and list (so no more throttle body ala 7 series). infinitely variable ignition timing, direct injection, and turbo charged.

too much to ask?

it'll come - via electrically/hydraulically operated valves

btw the BMW dont have no throttle, throttling is done through the Valve opening - dunno which engine does that though

We already have hydraulic valves, IIRC.

The big challenge is electromagnetically actuated valves. That would be the ultimate, and would allow complete control over the valve train. I don't think it's terribly far off, but it may require an overhaul to the traditional 12v electrical system cars use.. them coils would really take the juice.

 

[StageLeft]

My dream engine is a 5 cylinder wankel rotary with vertical twin camshafts, which would use forced induction of the air/fuel mixture and pro-variable timing of the ignition. I've specced it up on paper and an engine of this nature would provide about 60% better fuel economy than current engines and a 45% increase in horsepower throughout the rev range over similarly weighted/priced (once manufacturing could streamline it) engines we use now.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
My dream engine is a 5 cylinder wankel rotary with vertical twin camshafts, which would use forced induction of the air/fuel mixture and pro-variable timing of the ignition. I've specced it up on paper and an engine of this nature would provide about 60% better fuel economy than current engines and a 45% increase in horsepower throughout the rev range over similarly weighted/priced (once manufacturing could streamline it) engines we use now.

LOL...

5 cylinder rotary.. you crack me up..

 

[slag]

lol, yeah, 5 cylinder wankel rotary.. lol

Anyway, I remember reading somewhere about the new vette using electromagnetically controlled valves and not needing a camshaft any more..

Can you imagine how easy it would be to tune one of those things? With the push of a button you go from smooth cruising to the very rough idle of a monster machine and the power associated with it.

I thought the GTP supercharged motor used direct injection. I am fairly certain that the injector castings are directly on the head, not the intake manifold. If they are on the head, that means they would inject directly into the cylinder....

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: slag
lol, yeah, 5 cylinder wankel rotary.. lol

Anyway, I remember reading somewhere about the new vette using electromagnetically controlled valves and not needing a camshaft any more..

Can you imagine how easy it would be to tune one of those things? With the push of a button you go from smooth cruising to the very rough idle of a monster machine and the power associated with it.

I thought the GTP supercharged motor used direct injection. I am fairly certain that the injector castings are directly on the head, not the intake manifold. If they are on the head, that means they would inject directly into the cylinder....

Hmm.. Interesting, maybe electromagnetically actuated valves are closer than I thought.

Seems like there was a pretty big discussion about it a while back. But yeah, it would be a milestone in IC engine technology, that's for sure.

E-VTEC, anyone?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Skoorb
My dream engine is a 5 cylinder wankel rotary with vertical twin camshafts, which would use forced induction of the air/fuel mixture and pro-variable timing of the ignition. I've specced it up on paper and an engine of this nature would provide about 60% better fuel economy than current engines and a 45% increase in horsepower throughout the rev range over similarly weighted/priced (once manufacturing could streamline it) engines we use now.

LOL...

5 cylinder rotary.. you crack me up..

You mean I crank you up HARHAR!

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: zCypher
For GM motors I've heard of throttle body injection (TBI) and tuned port injection (TPI). In contrast to what you're talking about (direct injection), how does that fit in or compare? You mentioned something about throttle body injection in one series.

Throttle body injection - Injection behind the throttle body
Port injection - Injectors in runners aimed at intake ports
Direct injection - Injector inside cylinder (like spark plug)

This is all IIRC.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Eli
Don't virtually all diesels use direct injection?

Virtually? I thought they all did.

No, some diesels use IDI (indirect injection).

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: pio!pio!

Dream engine : infinityely variable cam timing, duration, and list (so no more throttle body ala 7 series). infinitely variable ignition timing, direct injection, and turbo charged.

too much to ask?

it'll come - via electrically/hydraulically operated valves

btw the BMW dont have no throttle, throttling is done through the Valve opening - dunno which engine does that though

I think that would be the 316ti Compact with the 1.8L Valvetronic engine.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: pio!pio!

Dream engine : infinityely variable cam timing, duration, and list (so no more throttle body ala 7 series). infinitely variable ignition timing, direct injection, and turbo charged.

too much to ask?

it'll come - via electrically/hydraulically operated valves

btw the BMW dont have no throttle, throttling is done through the Valve opening - dunno which engine does that though

We already have hydraulic valves, IIRC.

The big challenge is electromagnetically actuated valves. That would be the ultimate, and would allow complete control over the valve train. I don't think it's terribly far off, but it may require an overhaul to the traditional 12v electrical system cars use.. them coils would really take the juice.

Some guy did the math on it and concluded that the solenoids would have to be ultra strong to maintain any reasonably high RPM.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: slag
lol, yeah, 5 cylinder wankel rotary.. lol

Anyway, I remember reading somewhere about the new vette using electromagnetically controlled valves and not needing a camshaft any more..

Can you imagine how easy it would be to tune one of those things? With the push of a button you go from smooth cruising to the very rough idle of a monster machine and the power associated with it.

I thought the GTP supercharged motor used direct injection. I am fairly certain that the injector castings are directly on the head, not the intake manifold. If they are on the head, that means they would inject directly into the cylinder....

With electromagnetically-actuated valves, you wouldn't need to make a compromise between a smooth idle and long duration/lift. Otherwise the only thing you would gain from making such a switch would be convenience - i.e. no switching cams.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: pio!pio!
Are there any other cars in the US market has uses direct injection (fuel is inejcted directly into the cylinder as opposed to the intake manifold) advatnages are more power, less fuel consumption, less pollutants. disadvantage expensive injctors, needs low sulpher gas.

I've always thought that US gas was too high in sulpher to support DI. I guess it's changed now? so what other cars have DI?

do any cars have DI and turbocharged? variable cam profiles (not just timing, but lift and duration too..) from what I gather then BMW 7 series V12 has variable cam timing, and lift, but not duration.

Dream engine : infinityely variable cam timing, duration, and list (so no more throttle body ala 7 series). infinitely variable ignition timing, direct injection, and turbo charged.

too much to ask?

Think about a desmodromic valvetrain whose camshaft lobe profiles are smoothly varied across the face of each lobe. Then if you move the camshaft laterally you can change the valve characteristics on the fly to suit the RPM. Theoretically you don't need a desmodromic valvetrain, but they do eliminate valve springs and reduce friction, not to mention go really high in terms of RPM.

The only disadvantage I see for this type of valve actuation is that there's only 1 way a valve opens at a given RPM. The lobes might be machined that the valves closely fit the ideal profile through most of the rev range, but some flexibility would be useful.

Sorry about the multiple posts, I have a headache and couldn't figure out how to condense them.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: pio!pio!

Dream engine : infinityely variable cam timing, duration, and list (so no more throttle body ala 7 series). infinitely variable ignition timing, direct injection, and turbo charged.

too much to ask?

it'll come - via electrically/hydraulically operated valves

btw the BMW dont have no throttle, throttling is done through the Valve opening - dunno which engine does that though

We already have hydraulic valves, IIRC.

The big challenge is electromagnetically actuated valves. That would be the ultimate, and would allow complete control over the valve train. I don't think it's terribly far off, but it may require an overhaul to the traditional 12v electrical system cars use.. them coils would really take the juice.

Some guy did the math on it and concluded that the solenoids would have to be ultra strong to maintain any reasonably high RPM.

Yea.. it's definately going to take some advances in technology, but it's definately not impossible.. Like I said, we may need 36 or even 48v systems to keep the amperage required reasonable.. Heh.. I don't doubt it will happen some day, the potential gains are just far too great.

 

[JoLLyRoGer]

Heh. Electronic Valve Actuators...
That's SOOOO 1995

(It would be nice if it ever went mainstream though)

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
Heh. Electronic Valve Actuators...
That's SOOOO 1995

(It would be nice if it ever went mainstream though)

Heh, cool...

It will, eventually. The potential gains are far too great. Technology just needs to catch up and make it reliable, cost effective, etc..

Next off the drawing board at Goldstein's company is a new kind of sparking system that could make fuel burn more completely. Meanwhile, he predicts the big-three automakers could be building cars with EVA-equipped engines as soon as the 1998 model year.

I wonder what happened?