Blue Shield Won't Pay NorCal Mom's Cancer Treatment

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

I don't hate you, I hate what you REPRESENT. I was for UHC long before I knew I had cancer, it's just a sad coincidence that I now have proof I can lord over assholes like you who are only concerned with themselves. Thanks for proving what a shitass you are by attacking me like that though.

Considering that you would treat us as dogs, I haven't much sympathy for you. I represent a group of people who would do our best to help others. That's what we do. We have a problem with what the government isn't telling us. I don't know of any practitioner who does not want a better system, but so far nothing has been proposed which would indicate that it is.

You haven't proof of anything other than your hatred. I've suggested a way that Obama could get a better system by first finding out what could work and then go for implementation. And so we who try to help people like you are only thinking of ourselves, while you who are thinking of the greater good want to destroy the means by which others get help. I am sorry you are ill, but that hadn't anything to do with us. You have shit luck to be in your situation and if it could be fixed I'd say spend whatever it takes to make it better.

That said, you are clearly so bitter that you have lost perspective since what you propose would only harm what people can do. I called you on it. We'll have some form of UHC. You don't care if it sucks or not but a lot of us do. That's why I bitch slapped you, in an attempt to get you out of your "get even" or whatever childish revenge fantasy you are living in.

Leave the pity party and think about what it is that can make things better for others.

You bitch slapped me? LOL, what a cuntface you are, Mr. tough guy. You can shove it where the sun don't shine for all I care.

Making things better for others is EXACTLY what I am fighting for, unlike so many of you who are only protecting your own interests.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Why isn't socialized medicine being proposed? Because a great many if not almost all of our Congressmen receive $$$ from the big insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, the AMA, and other greedy interests. The end result will probably be that any "health care reform" legislation will probably result in those parties receiving even more money from the American people and a larger percentage of the nation's GDP.

Correct -- the CBO said as much about the current plan.

GOP and Blue Dogs are working hard to take out any cost containment provisions out of the current bill.

Let me repeat -- the CBO said as much about the current plan. This was before either the GOP or Blue Dogs touched it. It is time to stop toeing the party line and evaluating the current plan for what it is -- an unsustainable piece of crap. I will take the analysis of the CBO over you armchair politicians.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Why isn't socialized medicine being proposed? Because a great many if not almost all of our Congressmen receive $$$ from the big insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, the AMA, and other greedy interests. The end result will probably be that any "health care reform" legislation will probably result in those parties receiving even more money from the American people and a larger percentage of the nation's GDP.

Correct -- the CBO said as much about the current plan.

GOP and Blue Dogs are working hard to take out any cost containment provisions out of the current bill.

Let me repeat -- the CBO said as much about the current plan. This was before either the GOP or Blue Dogs touched it. It is time to stop toeing the party line and evaluating the current plan for what it is -- an unsustainable piece of crap. I will take the analysis of the CBO over you armchair politicians.

Do you ever get tired of saying that?

The CBO also had much more UHC-like recommendations. But you obviously don't care what he says when it doesn't agree with you.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Do you ever get tired of saying that?

The CBO also had much more UHC-like recommendations. But you obviously don't care what he says when it doesn't agree with you.

You have never discounted their numbers, which is not surprising considering the side of the fence you're on.

Keep up here. He said the current plan is what we need. I disputed that with the CBO numbers. Limited and specific reform is what is needed. Not UHC.

 

[nobodyknows]

Benjamin Franklin once famously remarked, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Unfortunately, what this means is often, according to the CBO, an ounce of prevention isn't worth anything at all. Consider the implications for this seldom-considered accounting rule. When the CBO scores a bill it gets to apply the savings, if any, that occur during the 10 year window to offset the costs. This 10 year rule means that the value of the return on almost every dollar government invests in our young children, say for their education, or for investments in preventive and public health, cannot be reflected in CBO scoring. Because those savings or long-term value will come later. Oh sure, sometimes prevention returns come sooner than 10 years, but often the really big value is for illness prevented, death delayed and health care costs deferred beyond 10 years. Just think of the value of helping children become healthier and more productive adults. This really pays off when they are adults, well beyond a 10-year window.

What if Benjamin Franklin Ran the Congressional Budget Office?

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Do you ever get tired of saying that?

The CBO also had much more UHC-like recommendations. But you obviously don't care what he says when it doesn't agree with you.

You have never discounted their numbers, which is not surprising considering the side of the fence you're on.

Keep up here. He said the current plan is what we need. I disputed that with the CBO numbers. Limited and specific reform is what is needed. Not UHC.

No, YOU keep up.

If you want to use the CBO analysis then you need to use the WHOLE analysis.

He pushed for a much stronger government control in order to control costs.

So if you want to use his view of how the numbers on the current bill don't work, you also are invariably tied to his views of how they would work.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Blue Shield Won't Pay NorCal Mom's Cancer Treatment

So?

Still doesn't make me want the government to take over.

You present yourself much more like a marketing tool than you do a free thinker.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

No, YOU keep up.

If you want to use the CBO analysis then you need to use the WHOLE analysis.

He pushed for a much stronger government control in order to control costs.

So if you want to use his view of how the numbers on the current bill don't work, you also are invariably tied to his views of how they would work.

<sigh>

Firstly, I was showing how contrary to senseamp's repeated claims, the numbers do NOT add up for the current bill and I used their numbers to show that. I agree with their numbers. Their solutions might very well solve the cost crisis and you have not seen me dispute that, have you? I don't agree with solutions involving more government control because I do not agree that it is the government's job to provide health care for its citizens via UHC. This isn't a difficult concept -- I am saying look at alternatives instead of tearing up the entire system.

EDIT: I had this same discussion with eskimospy (I believe). I don't believe the government should provide health care and I think we need to look for other solutions. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

EDIT2: And another thing, people keep telling me how great Medicare/Medicaid are (I can't comment either way), but no one can answer me when I ask if the government has ever considered merely extending this system to the uninsured. Have they?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Benjamin Franklin once famously remarked, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Unfortunately, what this means is often, according to the CBO, an ounce of prevention isn't worth anything at all. Consider the implications for this seldom-considered accounting rule. When the CBO scores a bill it gets to apply the savings, if any, that occur during the 10 year window to offset the costs. This 10 year rule means that the value of the return on almost every dollar government invests in our young children, say for their education, or for investments in preventive and public health, cannot be reflected in CBO scoring. Because those savings or long-term value will come later. Oh sure, sometimes prevention returns come sooner than 10 years, but often the really big value is for illness prevented, death delayed and health care costs deferred beyond 10 years. Just think of the value of helping children become healthier and more productive adults. This really pays off when they are adults, well beyond a 10-year window.

What if Benjamin Franklin Ran the Congressional Budget Office?

Great! Now we're getting somewhere, thanks for the link. Where are the projections of how much preventative measures will save long-term, and do we have breakdowns for those numbers? Those are very difficult estimates to come up with, I'd agree, because it is dependent on the number of people who would actually take advantage of the health care plan.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: senseamp
GOP and Blue Dogs are working hard to take out any cost containment provisions out of the current bill.

Let me repeat -- the CBO said as much about the current plan. This was before either the GOP or Blue Dogs touched it. It is time to stop toeing the party line and evaluating the current plan for what it is -- an unsustainable piece of crap. I will take the analysis of the CBO over you armchair politicians.

Do you ever get tired of saying that?

The CBO also had much more UHC-like recommendations. But you obviously don't care what he says when it doesn't agree with you.

Seemed appropriate enough to me considering it was in response to someone who never tires of saying conservatism is all about purposely shifting more wealth into the hands of evil corporations :roll:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

I don't hate you, I hate what you REPRESENT. I was for UHC long before I knew I had cancer, it's just a sad coincidence that I now have proof I can lord over assholes like you who are only concerned with themselves. Thanks for proving what a shitass you are by attacking me like that though.

Considering that you would treat us as dogs, I haven't much sympathy for you. I represent a group of people who would do our best to help others. That's what we do. We have a problem with what the government isn't telling us. I don't know of any practitioner who does not want a better system, but so far nothing has been proposed which would indicate that it is.

You haven't proof of anything other than your hatred. I've suggested a way that Obama could get a better system by first finding out what could work and then go for implementation. And so we who try to help people like you are only thinking of ourselves, while you who are thinking of the greater good want to destroy the means by which others get help. I am sorry you are ill, but that hadn't anything to do with us. You have shit luck to be in your situation and if it could be fixed I'd say spend whatever it takes to make it better.

That said, you are clearly so bitter that you have lost perspective since what you propose would only harm what people can do. I called you on it. We'll have some form of UHC. You don't care if it sucks or not but a lot of us do. That's why I bitch slapped you, in an attempt to get you out of your "get even" or whatever childish revenge fantasy you are living in.

Leave the pity party and think about what it is that can make things better for others.

You bitch slapped me? LOL, what a cuntface you are, Mr. tough guy. You can shove it where the sun don't shine for all I care.

Making things better for others is EXACTLY what I am fighting for, unlike so many of you who are only protecting your own interests.

It's interesting that we've been making things better for people, while you complain that we are only looking our for ourselves. You say that you are fighting for making things and you are doing it by posting on an internet forum.

We've gone down this road and I've explicitly said we need to improve health care, but automatically signing onto something basically unknown is foolishness.

Now that you've once again decided to ignore the facts, I'm going to dismiss you. You haven't had one supporting or logical thought, nor have you been able to come up with a valid point. You have nothing to back up any claims whatsoever, and so I'll leave you to stew in your own juices while I talk to the adults, with whom I may agree or disagree but can have a worthwhile discussion.

Beat it Jr.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

I don't hate you, I hate what you REPRESENT. I was for UHC long before I knew I had cancer, it's just a sad coincidence that I now have proof I can lord over assholes like you who are only concerned with themselves. Thanks for proving what a shitass you are by attacking me like that though.

Considering that you would treat us as dogs, I haven't much sympathy for you. I represent a group of people who would do our best to help others. That's what we do. We have a problem with what the government isn't telling us. I don't know of any practitioner who does not want a better system, but so far nothing has been proposed which would indicate that it is.

You haven't proof of anything other than your hatred. I've suggested a way that Obama could get a better system by first finding out what could work and then go for implementation. And so we who try to help people like you are only thinking of ourselves, while you who are thinking of the greater good want to destroy the means by which others get help. I am sorry you are ill, but that hadn't anything to do with us. You have shit luck to be in your situation and if it could be fixed I'd say spend whatever it takes to make it better.

That said, you are clearly so bitter that you have lost perspective since what you propose would only harm what people can do. I called you on it. We'll have some form of UHC. You don't care if it sucks or not but a lot of us do. That's why I bitch slapped you, in an attempt to get you out of your "get even" or whatever childish revenge fantasy you are living in.

Leave the pity party and think about what it is that can make things better for others.

You bitch slapped me? LOL, what a cuntface you are, Mr. tough guy. You can shove it where the sun don't shine for all I care.

Making things better for others is EXACTLY what I am fighting for, unlike so many of you who are only protecting your own interests.

It's interesting that we've been making things better for people, while you complain that we are only looking our for ourselves. You say that you are fighting for making things and you are doing it by posting on an internet forum.

Jane, Jane, Jane. How the hell do you know WTF I've done to make this world a better place? You ASSume you know but all you're really doing is attacking the messenger.

We've gone down this road and I've explicitly said we need to improve health care, but automatically signing onto something basically unknown is foolishness.

And I've said enough with the fucking lip service. Something, somewhere has got to give.... and soon.

Now that you've once again decided to ignore the facts, I'm going to dismiss you. You haven't had one supporting or logical thought, nor have you been able to come up with a valid point. You have nothing to back up any claims whatsoever, and so I'll leave you to stew in your own juices while I talk to the adults, with whom I may agree or disagree but can have a worthwhile discussion.

Beat it Jr.

Ahh yes. The world according to Hayabusa Rider. Why don't you go beat it yourself. As someone for whom the system didn't work for I am so much more qualified to speak on many of these matters then your are it isn't even funny. As far as I'm concerned you're nothing but a pompous ass..... and always have been.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Do you ever get tired of saying that?

The CBO also had much more UHC-like recommendations. But you obviously don't care what he says when it doesn't agree with you.

You have never discounted their numbers, which is not surprising considering the side of the fence you're on.

Keep up here. He said the current plan is what we need. I disputed that with the CBO numbers. Limited and specific reform is what is needed. Not UHC.

No, YOU keep up.

If you want to use the CBO analysis then you need to use the WHOLE analysis.

He pushed for a much stronger government control in order to control costs.

So if you want to use his view of how the numbers on the current bill don't work, you also are invariably tied to his views of how they would work.

lol, yet you seem the think that everyone will get whatever treatment they want under UHC. Too funny.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Do you ever get tired of saying that?

The CBO also had much more UHC-like recommendations. But you obviously don't care what he says when it doesn't agree with you.

You have never discounted their numbers, which is not surprising considering the side of the fence you're on.

Keep up here. He said the current plan is what we need. I disputed that with the CBO numbers. Limited and specific reform is what is needed. Not UHC.

No, YOU keep up.

If you want to use the CBO analysis then you need to use the WHOLE analysis.

He pushed for a much stronger government control in order to control costs.

So if you want to use his view of how the numbers on the current bill don't work, you also are invariably tied to his views of how they would work.

lol, yet you seem the think that everyone will get whatever treatment they want under UHC. Too funny.

Yeah, and I disagree with his assertion that since I agree with their numbers detailing how the current bill is unsustainable over the long term in terms of cost, I MUST agree with their solutions to make the bill cost effective or else I am a hypocrite. That is a ludicrous assumption.

The solutions outlined by the CBO probably would make it cost effective and I have never said they would not. However, they involve MORE government control and I don't think that is a wise idea. As I explained, most problems have multiple solutions and while the CBO may have proposed one solution, I'd like to see other solutions involving less government control.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

I don't hate you, I hate what you REPRESENT. I was for UHC long before I knew I had cancer, it's just a sad coincidence that I now have proof I can lord over assholes like you who are only concerned with themselves. Thanks for proving what a shitass you are by attacking me like that though.

Considering that you would treat us as dogs, I haven't much sympathy for you. I represent a group of people who would do our best to help others. That's what we do. We have a problem with what the government isn't telling us. I don't know of any practitioner who does not want a better system, but so far nothing has been proposed which would indicate that it is.

You haven't proof of anything other than your hatred. I've suggested a way that Obama could get a better system by first finding out what could work and then go for implementation. And so we who try to help people like you are only thinking of ourselves, while you who are thinking of the greater good want to destroy the means by which others get help. I am sorry you are ill, but that hadn't anything to do with us. You have shit luck to be in your situation and if it could be fixed I'd say spend whatever it takes to make it better.

That said, you are clearly so bitter that you have lost perspective since what you propose would only harm what people can do. I called you on it. We'll have some form of UHC. You don't care if it sucks or not but a lot of us do. That's why I bitch slapped you, in an attempt to get you out of your "get even" or whatever childish revenge fantasy you are living in.

Leave the pity party and think about what it is that can make things better for others.

You bitch slapped me? LOL, what a cuntface you are, Mr. tough guy. You can shove it where the sun don't shine for all I care.

Really? Is this standard P&N fare? Hayabusa Rider remaining calm and rational, sticking with facts and figures, nobodyknows coming unstitched more and more with every post. Hayabusa Rider brings facts and info, nobodyknows brings "cuntface", "shove it where the sun don't shine", "shitass" (whatever that is), and ... well, we get the point.

I wonder what would happen if ProfJohn spoke like this on regular basis.

Seriously guy... CHILL. Hayabusa Rider...Me...Blanghorst...Blackangst...spacejamz...Bober Fett...TheSkinsFan... Do you ever find it hard to keep track of all of the names you're supposed to hate?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Seriously guy... CHILL. Hayabusa Rider...Me...Blanghorst...Blackangst...spacejamz...Bober Fett...TheSkinsFan... Do you ever find it hard to keep track of all of the names you're supposed to hate?

I am here to debate the health care plan and also learn, as I certainly don't know all the options out there. But it is tough to have a serious discussion when name calling is the "standard fare" instead of fact-based discussion or thoughtful opinions.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Seriously guy... CHILL. Hayabusa Rider...Me...Blanghorst...Blackangst...spacejamz...Bober Fett...TheSkinsFan... Do you ever find it hard to keep track of all of the names you're supposed to hate?

I am here to debate the health care plan and also learn, as I certainly don't know all the options out there. But it is tough to have a serious discussion when name calling is the "standard fare" instead of fact-based discussion or thoughtful opinions.

Well no one is going to listen to us in DC and we know that. What's unfortunate is that dissent is unpatriotic. Not in a gainsaying way, but questioning what we're offered because it's the obligation of the citizen to be aware of what government is up to and keep it accountable. I was a terrorist loving liberal when I questioned Iraq, and now I'm a corporate shill republican. Go figure.

Fortunately there are those we can talk to. I've had some productive PMs with a member who has a distinctly different perspective, however we have learned that the other has the desire to improve the situation. I won't mention his name because he'll probably be tainted by association with me.

Unfortunately we haven't much to go on in terms of facts, and this renders our concerns rather academic. One wonders how we would be debating the options if we knew what they were. Perhaps one day the politicians will learn it's in their best interest to act in ours and not seek control or political advantage before knowing how to best approach this most important topic. I'll not hold my breath though.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Well no one is going to listen to us in DC and we know that.

When has DC ever listened to the people?

The problem is that they live in DC and end up living in a bubble.

I really like the part about the DNC instructing members of the house to cancel town hall meetings for fear that they might end up on youtube.

Have to avoid all that manufactured anger over people wanting their representative to read the bill...i mean that is too much to ask for...right?

 

[ProfJohn]

Maybe she should go to Canada where they have 3 of these gamma knife centers.

Or perhaps Mexico which has 2 of them.

Or stay in California which has 11 of them, more than Canada and Mexico combined.

That is one of the main reasons our healthcare costs are so damn high, because we have the best equipment in the world and lots and lots of it.

If she lived in Canada she probably would not have even been offered this treatment because they would have never been able to get her into the machine on time.

http://www.elekta.com/patient_...amma_knife_centers.php
That is the site of the company that created the technique in the 60s.

 

[ProfJohn]

BTW according to one person on the net the cost of this type of treatment is between 20 and 25k.

 

[Patranus]

You can't really estimate costs as insurance companies have volume thus lower the cost compared to someone without insurance.

Heh, I guess Costco is immoral and the government should provide everyone with a Costco membership because you can buy goods at Costco at a lower price point but have to have a membership. It is unfair that non members who choose to not have a membership have to pay higher out of pocket costs when shopping for goods.