Blu-ray versus HD-DVD (old)

[dwell]

Originally posted by: konakona
I am just curious, how big is the EU market?

To put it in perspective, in 2006 out of 110M PS2s that were sold over 40M were sold in Europe , 45M in the US and 25M in Japan.

I stand corrected then. Is that based on total # or ratio?

Ratio of population.

Also I did note I brought this up only because you implied many people buy ps3 to use it as a BD player.

Fair enough. I think we all agree we don't need another console wars thread here.

 

[dwell]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
According to interviews at CEDIA TL 51 will work with Gen 2&3. They believe they will work with ~80% of Gen1 players. TL51 isn't "BS".

I thought HD-DVD was a baked format? Seems like it's at best 80% baked, eh?

I see no problem with taking their time. Unlike Sony, they prefer not to make everybody's player obsolete immediately after purchase.

Profile 1.0 players will be able to play the main content all the way up to Profile 2.0. The difference is it can't use the advanced features (PiP, network), which is acceptable to me. According to you 1G HD-DVD players cannot play TL51 discs at all. I think your throwing the "O" word at the wrong camp bud.

As far as your 2007 revenues, so what? Didn't I specifically mention catalogs?

Even talking catalogs, BD has the advantage:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896112

Blu-Ray: 40.3%
HD-DVD: 37.9%
Common: 21.8%

Even so, would your rather crusty old B&W titles from Paramount's backlot or blockbusters on your HD setup?

 

[montypythizzle]

Blu-Ray FTFW!!! nuff said.
+post count, can't wait for Lifer status.

 

[Genx87]

What does it matter about revenue share of this years movies? When the players start moving you will see movie studios of shifting.

For the first two weeks of Sept the disc shipments have been 60/40 in Blu Ray favor. This is down from nearly 70/30 1 month ago. The trend appears to have started. With 3rd generation players due out in under a month and price cuts galore. More HD-DVD players will be shipping and the momentum will continue until Blu Ray lowers their price to a point they can move as many players.

I really think heroes on HD-DVD will sway a lot of people who are on the edge of making a purchase.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Chris

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
According to interviews at CEDIA TL 51 will work with Gen 2&3. They believe they will work with ~80% of Gen1 players. TL51 isn't "BS".

I thought HD-DVD was a baked format? Seems like it's at best 80% baked, eh?

I see no problem with taking their time. Unlike Sony, they prefer not to make everybody's player obsolete immediately after purchase.

Profile 1.0 players will be able to play the main content all the way up to Profile 2.0. The difference is it can't use the advanced features (PiP, network), which is acceptable to me. According to you 1G HD-DVD players cannot play TL51 discs at all. I think your throwing the "O" word at the wrong camp bud.

As far as your 2007 revenues, so what? Didn't I specifically mention catalogs?

Even talking catalogs, BD has the advantage:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896112

Blu-Ray: 40.3%
HD-DVD: 37.9%
Common: 21.8%

Even so, would your rather crusty old B&W titles from Paramount's backlot or blockbusters on your HD setup?

It is a baked format, it's just an added feature. It won't make every SAL player out there obsolete, unlike BD 1.1. Additionally, it's an added feature, DVD had them after initial launch.

I never said no 1G players can play TL51, go back and read. At worst Toshiba engineers said 20% of the D1 won't play them. Wow, that means that 14k players won't play them, at worst. As opposed to hundreds of thousands of SAL BD players.

Ohhh noes! BD has an edge of 2.4% GOSH, HOW CAN WE LIVE WITHOUT THAT!?!?!?

Personally, I'd rather trust the "crusty" ones like Top Gun and the Jack Ryan collection.

 

[LegendKiller]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH....


http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=507
September 14, 2007
Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has revealed that the upcoming 'The Company' Blu-ray release (October 23rd) will be delivered on a two discs set featuring 1080p video and PCM audio. Additionally, Fox Home Entertainment has revealed that the upcoming 'Robocop' release (October 9th) will be the unrated version, and feature AVC 1080p video and DTS-HD Master Audio on a BD-25. The only extra on 'Robocop' will be a trailer.


So let me get this straight. You release a highly expected video like Robocop, put it on a 25GB disc, then say that HD DVD doesn't have the bandwidth nor space to fit a marquee title with lossless audio and good video on a 30GB disc? Not only that but you include NO bonus features other than the trailer?

Then, they have the balls to release another highlighted release on *TWO* discs rather than one? What happened to all of this vaunted space and low costs of movies due to that?

Man, I don't know how good this is going to get, but I am sure it'll provide more comedy than Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, the old Eddie Murphy,and Lewis Black all wrapped up into one.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Chris
Actually, either format is a losing proposition at this point because you're SOL for getting 100% of the content in your format of choice. There's four choices:

1) Stick with DVD.
2) Go with on one format and fill in the gaps with upscaled DVD.
3) Buy both formats players.
4) Buy a dual format player.

Currently, only one format allows you go #2 and get the most HD content: Blu-Ray.

In my honest opinion it's kind of ridiculous investing money in any of these formats (players or discs) at this point because the end-game for the war is at least two years out and the current crop of players are either too expensive (Blu-Ray and most HD-DVD players) or garbage (HD-A2). At least going the PS3 route gets you a BD player, DVD upscaler, media center, and game console.

To put it bluntly, for the $250 you spend on a HD-A2, you might as well just get an Oppo DV-981HD and enjoy really well scaled DVD content in 1080p and get a real HD player when the dust settles with the formats. That's just my opinion. If the PS3 didn't exist, I would not own a HDM device.
*clipped*

The HD-A2 garbage??? Are you kidding me? Stop spreading FUD!

The HD-A2 is an amazing player and an awesome upconverter. It makes no sense to get an Oppo upconverter when you can get the same thing PLUS AN HD DVD PLAYER for pennies more.

Or do you just assume it's garbage because it only outputs 1080i?

Listen carefully all of you blu-ray fanboys: you all brushing off HD DVD's price advantage like it's no big deal but this couldn't be farther from the truth. Anyone remember what happened last fall when HDTV prices dropped? In case you forget it was when the mass adoption of HDTVs began. I originally had no intention of even getting an HDTV but when target.com had the Olevia 332H on sale for $573 shipped I decided that it was cheap enough to finally get one.

I am not the only person to have jumped on one of these cheap HDTVs. Most of the people who have HDTVs today have one of these cheap sets. Just look at Vizio. It's one of the top selling brands now. Most all of these HDTVs have a native resolution of 1366x768 and cannot do 1080p. So why should 1080p matter to them? The HD-A2 appeals to large number of people who bought these tvs, myself included.

I never would have bought an HDTV if I had to pay $1000 and I certainly wouldn't have entered this stupid format war if I had to spend $500 on a player. I'm not the only person that feels this way. This is how at least 90% of the population feels about HD right now. Anandtech, engadget, and AVS are not representative of the real world. This is why any numbers in this format war are meaningless. Who cares if Blu-ray has 0.7% compared to HD DVD's 0.4%. DVD has 99.0%.

People will not invest in a format until it can be had for CHEAP, and HD DVD is already way ahead of the game. If you think Blu-ray will match HD DVD's low prices anytime soon you are delusional. With China producing HD DVD hardware expect the price gap to increase even further.


Also, another word on the 1080i vs. 1080p nonsense. The HD-A2 still outputs in full 1920x1080 resolution. 1080i60 can be easily converted to 1080p24 using the 3:2 pulldown method. In fact this works extremely well and results in no noticeable artifacting. Check this out: http://blog.hometheatermag.com...son/0807061080iv1080p/

I saw an HD-A2 hooked up to a native 1080p Samsung set at best-buy a few weeks ago and it looked absolutly beautiful. Neither myself nor my dad could tell any difference between the same set hooked up to a native 1080p bluray player.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH....


http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=507
September 14, 2007
Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has revealed that the upcoming 'The Company' Blu-ray release (October 23rd) will be delivered on a two discs set featuring 1080p video and PCM audio. Additionally, Fox Home Entertainment has revealed that the upcoming 'Robocop' release (October 9th) will be the unrated version, and feature AVC 1080p video and DTS-HD Master Audio on a BD-25. The only extra on 'Robocop' will be a trailer.


So let me get this straight. You release a highly expected video like Robocop, put it on a 25GB disc, then say that HD DVD doesn't have the bandwidth nor space to fit a marquee title with lossless audio and good video on a 30GB disc? Not only that but you include NO bonus features other than the trailer?

Then, they have the balls to release another highlighted release on *TWO* discs rather than one? What happened to all of this vaunted space and low costs of movies due to that?

Man, I don't know how good this is going to get, but I am sure it'll provide more comedy than Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, the old Eddie Murphy,and Lewis Black all wrapped up into one.

It's simple. The rumors about the high production costs and low yield of BD50 discs are true. HD DVD has no such problem with their two layer discs, and the fact that the DVD forum has just approved the triple layer HD DVDs is just more icing on the cake.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Shawn


The HD-A2 garbage??? Are you kidding me? Stop spreading FUD!

The HD-A2 is an amazing player and an awesome upconverter. It makes no sense to get an Oppo upconverter when you can get the same thing PLUS AN HD DVD PLAYER for pennies more.

Or do you just assume it's garbage because it only outputs 1080i?

Listen carefully all of you blu-ray fanboys: you all brushing off HD DVD's price advantage like it's no big deal but this couldn't be farther from the truth. Anyone remember what happened last fall when HDTV prices dropped? In case you forget it was when the mass adoption of HDTVs began. I originally had no intention of even getting an HDTV but when target.com had the Olevia 332H on sale for $573 shipped I decided that it was cheap enough to finally get one.

I am not the only person to have jumped on one of these cheap HDTVs. Most of the people who have HDTVs today have one of these cheap sets. Just look at Vizio. It's one of the top selling brands now. Most all of these HDTVs have a native resolution of 1366x768 and cannot do 1080p. So why should 1080p matter to them? The HD-A2 appeals to large number of people who bought these tvs, myself included.

I never would have bought an HDTV if I had to pay $1000 and I certainly wouldn't have entered this stupid format war if I had to spend $500 on a player. I'm not the only person that feels this way. This is how at least 90% of the population feels about HD right now. Anandtech, engadget, and AVS are not representative of the real world. This is why any numbers in this format war are meaningless. Who cares if Blu-ray has 0.7% compared to HD DVD's 0.4%. DVD has 99.0%.

People will not invest in a format until it can be had for CHEAP, and HD DVD is already way ahead of the game. If you think Blu-ray will match HD DVD's low prices anytime soon you are delusional. With China producing HD DVD hardware expect the price gap to increase even further.


Also, another word on the 1080i vs. 1080p nonsense. The HD-A2 still outputs in full 1920x1080 resolution. 1080i60 can be easily converted to 1080p24 using the 3:2 pulldown method. In fact this works extremely well and results in no noticeable artifacting. Check this out: http://blog.hometheatermag.com...son/0807061080iv1080p/

I saw an HD-A2 hooked up to a native 1080p Samsung set at best-buy a few weeks ago and it looked absolutly beautiful. Neither myself nor my dad could tell any difference between the same set hooked up to a native 1080p bluray player.

These guys think that any square peg needs to be shoved into a round hole, regardless of utility, form, or function.

They fall into the same mindset that sony has obviously failed to understand, that not everybody needs, wants, nor sees value in every feature that the company does. It's also akin to the famous Henry Ford line about the Model-T, you can have any color you want it just has to be black.

Naturally, these people failed economics, or never took it, because they do not understand utility curves. Sony is learning this lesson, or at least they should be, as their sales keep sucking month after month.

How long until Chris learns it? By the way it looks, never.