Blu-ray standalone players remain so low....

[CorCentral]

Story here

Hot on the heels of last week?s report from ABI Research noting that many consumers may not see the picture quality difference between Blu-ray and standard DVDs comes the latest Blu-ray sales figures from NPD Group. And they?re not pretty.

According to NPD, sales of Blu-ray standalone players plummeted 40 percent from January to February, then rose a scant 2 percent from February to March. The general consensus was that once Toshiba dropped its support for the HD DVD format early this year, sales would increase.

In fact, sales of Blu-ray standalone players remain so low that NPD has not yet released actual numbers, for fear that it would be easy to identify individual retailers. The research group will start to give actual figures later this year, said Ross Rubin, director of industry analysis at NPD.

The end of the format wars clearly did little to boost Blu-ray?s prospects. Like others, Mr. Rubin said the much cheaper upconverting standard DVD players are winning consumers? hearts and wallets.

The price of upconverting players is hovering around $70. And this week, Amazon is giving them away for free when consumers purchase certain Samsung TVs. The result: a 5 percent uptick in upconverting DVD player sales in the first quarter of 2008, compared to same quarter a year ago, and a 39 percent decline in players that don?t have that feature.

With Blu-ray players still costing more than $300 ? and a number of players on the market still lacking some Blu-ray features like Internet connectivity ? NPD now figures that Blu-ray?s future won?t be clear until this Christmas, when prices should drop to the $200 range.

ABI Research is even less optimistic. In a report released yesterday, the research firm figures it could take until October 2009 until Blu-ray gains a foothold in the market.


:music:I want my HDDVD :music:

 

[LegendKiller]

It's humorous that BDA thought they'd have a home run if they destroyed HD DVD by pouring money into getting exclusive studios and subsidizing the PS3 to a massive extent.

Yet they won a phyrric victory. They spent a shit-ton of money, vanquished their opponent, but have lost the real war.

Not everybody is going to run out and buy a BD player for $300 and then spend $30 per disc for what they consider a "marginal" improvement.

That was what was nice about HD DVD, it was far cheaper, offered more bells and whistles.

The math doesn't add up. HDTVs only have about 35% of the total consumer TV market, of those most think DVD is just fine for the value, lets say 75%. That means they are limited to about 9% of the entire TV market, which isn't jack shit.

If they stopped being complete morons, dropped the price of players to $200, launched BDs at $5 premium over day and date DVDs, they might spur more interest.

However, they are completely screwing up the situation.

 

[mcturkey]

Standalone is irrelevant. The absolute best BR player available right now is the PS3, and many of the people who are buying BR players are doing their research, thus not wasting money on standalone units. When prices drop closer to $200, it will help, but I think the main thing holding back the format right now is media cost. If you have a 1080P setup, you'll probably be able to notice the difference between native 1080P and upscaled DVDs. But is that difference worth nearly double the price of movies for most folks? No. PS3 is going to put a BR player in a whole lot of homes. High media prices, however, will keep BR content out of most homes.

I totally agree that a $5 premium would probably be small enough to help move discs, but price parity would almost certainly send BR sales skyrocketing. Then again, what incentive do the studios have to offer a higher-quality version of their movies at the same price as the regular? If there's no extra profit to be made, they don't seem to care.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: mcturkey
Standalone is irrelevant. The absolute best BR player available right now is the PS3, and many of the people who are buying BR players are doing their research, thus not wasting money on standalone units. When prices drop closer to $200, it will help, but I think the main thing holding back the format right now is media cost. If you have a 1080P setup, you'll probably be able to notice the difference between native 1080P and upscaled DVDs. But is that difference worth nearly double the price of movies for most folks? No. PS3 is going to put a BR player in a whole lot of homes. High media prices, however, will keep BR content out of most homes.

I totally agree that a $5 premium would probably be small enough to help move discs, but price parity would almost certainly send BR sales skyrocketing. Then again, what incentive do the studios have to offer a higher-quality version of their movies at the same price as the regular? If there's no extra profit to be made, they don't seem to care.

I agree about the PS3 point. Just a couple weeks ago I considered getting a game system. I have always leaned towards the 360. However, why the hell would I pay $379 when for $399 I can get a PS3 with many of the same games AND a BR player? Not just a BR player...but one of the best out there AND 2.0 compliant.

Needless to say I went with the PS3 and I have to say...I misjudged this thing. It is an excellent machine and a fabulous value for the money. Even though I paid $280ish for the console in the end with the discounts, it would definitely have been worth $399.

Now I am able to yet again to buy HD movies after I stopped once it was clear HDDVD was dying. I also wasn't buying SD movies because I knew I was going to want them in HD.

The only thing keeping me from buying a lot of movies is those prices...damn...$30 for a movie is tough to swallow except for my absolute favorites. If they can lower the price to $20 typical with the occasional going for $15 and some for $25(blockbusters) I would be much more inclined to keep buying movies.

So this study doesn't surprise me at all. When I look in a BB ad I wonder why I would buy a $400-$500 BR player when I can pay $400 for a game console and a BR player. That and its a FANTASTIC player....not like the PS2 which was a somewhat questionable DVD player.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
It's humorous that BDA thought they'd have a home run if they destroyed HD DVD by pouring money into getting exclusive studios and subsidizing the PS3 to a massive extent.

They didn't subsidize the PS3 any more than Microsoft subsidized the xbox 360. Actually, given the build qualities, Sony will probably turn a profit on the PS3 before Microsoft does on the xbox.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Yet they won a phyrric victory. They spent a shit-ton of money, vanquished their opponent, but have lost the real war.

Have you seen Toshiba's last financial statement? Wow, they lost a TON of money on HD DVD last year even before they called it quits. So in your eyes it would have been a phyrric victory no matter what. Except that you jumped on the HD DVD bandwagon, thus Toshiba's phyrric victory would have been awesome!!!!!

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Not everybody is going to run out and buy a BD player for $300 and then spend $30 per disc for what they consider a "marginal" improvement.

Not everyone ran out and bought a $300 dvd player. That format did quite well.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
That was what was nice about HD DVD, it was far cheaper, offered more bells and whistles.

It was far cheaper because it was in the far worse position. Toshiba's only option was to lose money on players, make it up in disc sales. If they were in a stronger position in the market, you can bet your sweet ass they'd have been charging the hell out of consumers.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
The math doesn't add up. HDTVs only have about 35% of the total consumer TV market, of those most think DVD is just fine for the value, lets say 75%. That means they are limited to about 9% of the entire TV market, which isn't jack shit.

Which is why it was silly to think either format can become "mass market". They will be "niche" no matter what happened, no matter how much money Toshiba wanted to lose on each player. But that small number who does want improved quality, will be getting it thanks to Blu-ray's higher capacity and bit-rate.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
If they stopped being complete morons, dropped the price of players to $200, launched BDs at $5 premium over day and date DVDs, they might spur more interest.

So a company is filled with "complete morons" when they want to at least cover the cost of manufacturing? And have you been to a Wal*Mart lately? Check it out. Blu-rays sitting right next to the dvd releases priced on average $5 higher. Don't expect Blu-ray to compete against the $5 clearance dvd bins.

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
However, they are completely screwing up the situation.

The evil Sony who had higher disc sales all of last year, even higher standalone player sales in December, can only bring more evil upon consumers. Their efforts and dedication to quality releases is all a part of their big evil plan. Digital downloads in any significant capacity or quality, are a loooooong way off. Blu-ray is easily a 10 year product. A little bump in year 2, not that big a deal in the grand scheme of evilly screwing over consumers.

Have I covered everything in there?

 

[jtvang125]

In the state the economy is right now I'm not surprise that sales have been slow. At $300+ for a player it's going to be awful hard to make people bite. Also movies released 4+ years ago now being re-released on blu-ray for ~$25 isn't helping either.

At $200 I'm sure more people will bite but I think the magic number is $150. The problem is the price isn't going to reach this anything soon.

 

[DaveSimmons]

PS3 sales for March 2008 were double the sales of March 2007 in the US ( = ~250K).

Blu-ray, media player, wifi, good games library (though smaller than xbox's), free online play.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: jtvang125
In the state the economy is right now I'm not surprise that sales have been slow.

Along with no big blockbuster release the past two months to entice new buyers. The biggest releases were Bee Movie & Cloverfield, those will be coming to Blu-ray late May / early June, but missed the big initial sales period when the dvd was released.

Originally posted by: jtvang125
Also movies released 4+ years ago now being re-released on blu-ray for ~$25 isn't helping either.

Studios are putting a tremendous amount of work into restoring films for Blu-ray release. I honestly feel that $25 is a bargain. That's what we were paying for catalog dvd releases ten years ago! With the remastering, coupled with lossless audio, it is a tremendous value.

My god, I watched The 13th Warrior on dvd a while ago, and the amount of tears and holes in the film was ridiculous. At one point, a black hole covered ~40% of Banderas face! By chance I watched the remastered Gattaca on Blu-ray the following night, the movie was beautiful, I did not see a single tear in the video. It's worth the small premium to get that level of quality. We're not exactly talking in pricing levels like the $100 laserdisc special edition releases...

Then yes there are some releases, like Fox's Predator and Commando, which are crap, mpeg2 encodes on a BD25. These were prepared for release a year ago, before Fox pulled out after AACS was bypassed, these are not typical of the new Fox releases.

If price is that big a concern for someone, just wait a few months pick up a used copy for $10. With the scratch resistant coating, used discs work just like new. And look, Lionsgate is putting out some catalog releases end of this month for $19.99 MSRP, $12.95 at Amazon. Not bad at all.

 

[KeithTalent]

I really wanted a standalone player, but ended up getting a PS3 due to the fact it is the best thing available at that price point.

Everyone's listed the pros for it, so I won't mention them, but the the 2 big cons (for me anyway) are:

1. It's ugly as sin

2. No IR support so i can't use my universal remote with it (hugely disappointing)

I'll never use the thing to play games, so that functionality is comepltely wasted on me. In the end though, the pros outweighed the cons and it seriously outweighed any of the standalones I looked at.

Once standalones come down in price and include all of the features I need/want, I'll sell my PS3 and get one of them. Hopefully it will be soon.

KT

 

[Genx87]

With the growth of VOD, downloadable movies, and services like Netflix online and Apple TV. Blu Ray is going to have an uphill battle. Physical disc sales are starting to plummet like CD sales did 4 years ago. It is obvious online content is starting to change the landscape. With the deployment of DOCSIS 3.0 systems starting a couple of months ago the bandwidths are only going to go up big time.

Ill have to laugh if in 18 months the studio's pull the plug on Blu Ray and work on their online delivery systems instead. Leaving the physical medium to DVD. AppleTV is now getting day and date releases with DVD and Blu Ray for new movies.

40% plummet of sales is hilarious, honestly. Talk about a slap in the face.

Edit: btw did anybody notice the volume of HD sales stopped being reported after the beginning of Feb when sales were cut in half from early January? I bet the movie volume is equally as pathetic.

 

[pennylane]

Originally posted by: Genx87
With the growth of VOD, downloadable movies, and services like Netflix online and Apple TV. Blu Ray is going to have an uphill battle. Physical disc sales are starting to plummet like CD sales did 4 years ago. It is obvious online content is starting to change the landscape. With the deployment of DOCSIS 3.0 systems starting a couple of months ago the bandwidths are only going to go up big time.

Ill have to laugh if in 18 months the studio's pull the plug on Blu Ray and work on their online delivery systems instead. Leaving the physical medium to DVD. AppleTV is now getting day and date releases with DVD and Blu Ray for new movies.

40% plummet of sales is hilarious, honestly. Talk about a slap in the face.

Edit: btw did anybody notice the volume of HD sales stopped being reported after the beginning of Feb when sales were cut in half from early January? I bet the movie volume is equally as pathetic.

Except the quality won't be as good for a long time .

Obviously most people won't care, but there are many (small percentage that may be) that would prefer the 1080p not-compressed-to-hell video and lossless audio that blu-ray provides.

Also, I had the impression that other hardware companies weren't building HDM players because the war hadn't been settled. Didn't Oppo, among other manufacturers, announce that they were building a blu-ray player? Adoption should increase more when those players hit the market.

At the same time I wonder why people are apparently kicking blu-ray while it's down. Hate Sony? Love HD-DVD? I don't know. Now that HD-DVD is dead, nothing's gonna look as good as blu-ray for awhile. All the studios are backing it. More hardware companies are backing it. Shouldn't everybody want it to at least.... not die?

 

[Genx87]

Well it is possible that online content can match it. But Blu Ray should it fail will still be a niche market product. But I still think in the long run it will prevail. I will be surprised if it is as successful at DVD though.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Physical disc sales are starting to plummet like CD sales did 4 years ago. It is obvious online content is starting to change the landscape.

I agree. It's dang near impossible for me to find stores that still carry CDs. Downloads have driven them out of the market.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Genx87
Physical disc sales are starting to plummet like CD sales did 4 years ago. It is obvious online content is starting to change the landscape.

I agree. It's dang near impossible for me to find stores that still carry CDs. Downloads have driven them out of the market.

Nah. I think rental services like netflix and blockbuster and "on demand" from Cable are really taking a bite out of sales. I bought close to 200 DVD's from the time they released till '04 or so when I started my Blockbuster account. Same goes for a number of my friends and family.

Music is MUCH different than a DVD. 100 megs for an album to 4+ gigs for a movie is a tremendous difference. Plus the simple fact that I have no desire to watch a movie on my computer but music is fine there or on an mp3 player to go.

It will be a decade or more before you see online streaming services really take a serious bite out of physical media. Bandwith and viewing devices will have caught up.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
It's humorous that BDA thought they'd have a home run if they destroyed HD DVD by pouring money into getting exclusive studios and subsidizing the PS3 to a massive extent.

Yet they won a phyrric victory. They spent a shit-ton of money, vanquished their opponent, but have lost the real war.

Not everybody is going to run out and buy a BD player for $300 and then spend $30 per disc for what they consider a "marginal" improvement.

That was what was nice about HD DVD, it was far cheaper, offered more bells and whistles.

The math doesn't add up. HDTVs only have about 35% of the total consumer TV market, of those most think DVD is just fine for the value, lets say 75%. That means they are limited to about 9% of the entire TV market, which isn't jack shit.

If they stopped being complete morons, dropped the price of players to $200, launched BDs at $5 premium over day and date DVDs, they might spur more interest.

However, they are completely screwing up the situation.

You dont think player prices will come down? Disc prices of HDDVD vs Bluray were a wash for the most part.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
It's humorous that BDA thought they'd have a home run if they destroyed HD DVD by pouring money into getting exclusive studios and subsidizing the PS3 to a massive extent.

Yet they won a phyrric victory. They spent a shit-ton of money, vanquished their opponent, but have lost the real war.

Not everybody is going to run out and buy a BD player for $300 and then spend $30 per disc for what they consider a "marginal" improvement.

That was what was nice about HD DVD, it was far cheaper, offered more bells and whistles.

The math doesn't add up. HDTVs only have about 35% of the total consumer TV market, of those most think DVD is just fine for the value, lets say 75%. That means they are limited to about 9% of the entire TV market, which isn't jack shit.

If they stopped being complete morons, dropped the price of players to $200, launched BDs at $5 premium over day and date DVDs, they might spur more interest.

However, they are completely screwing up the situation.

You dont think player prices will come down? Disc prices of HDDVD vs Bluray were a wash for the most part.

Sony is claiming 100 per year through 09. That would put them at ~150 range in 2010. Is that low enough fast enough? By 2010 the big cable companies expect to have DOCSIS 3.0 rolled out to 50% of their subscribers. Which will open up download speeds in excess of 50Mbps.

 

[cliftonite]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
It's humorous that BDA thought they'd have a home run if they destroyed HD DVD by pouring money into getting exclusive studios and subsidizing the PS3 to a massive extent.

Yet they won a phyrric victory. They spent a shit-ton of money, vanquished their opponent, but have lost the real war.

Not everybody is going to run out and buy a BD player for $300 and then spend $30 per disc for what they consider a "marginal" improvement.

That was what was nice about HD DVD, it was far cheaper, offered more bells and whistles.

The math doesn't add up. HDTVs only have about 35% of the total consumer TV market, of those most think DVD is just fine for the value, lets say 75%. That means they are limited to about 9% of the entire TV market, which isn't jack shit.

If they stopped being complete morons, dropped the price of players to $200, launched BDs at $5 premium over day and date DVDs, they might spur more interest.

However, they are completely screwing up the situation.

You dont think player prices will come down? Disc prices of HDDVD vs Bluray were a wash for the most part.

Sony is claiming 100 per year through 09. That would put them at ~150 range in 2010. Is that low enough fast enough? By 2010 the big cable companies expect to have DOCSIS 3.0 rolled out to 50% of their subscribers. Which will open up download speeds in excess of 50Mbps.

Is Sony the only manufacturer that makes Blu-Ray players?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
It's humorous that BDA thought they'd have a home run if they destroyed HD DVD by pouring money into getting exclusive studios and subsidizing the PS3 to a massive extent.

Yet they won a phyrric victory. They spent a shit-ton of money, vanquished their opponent, but have lost the real war.

Not everybody is going to run out and buy a BD player for $300 and then spend $30 per disc for what they consider a "marginal" improvement.

That was what was nice about HD DVD, it was far cheaper, offered more bells and whistles.

The math doesn't add up. HDTVs only have about 35% of the total consumer TV market, of those most think DVD is just fine for the value, lets say 75%. That means they are limited to about 9% of the entire TV market, which isn't jack shit.

If they stopped being complete morons, dropped the price of players to $200, launched BDs at $5 premium over day and date DVDs, they might spur more interest.

However, they are completely screwing up the situation.

You dont think player prices will come down? Disc prices of HDDVD vs Bluray were a wash for the most part.

Sony is claiming 100 per year through 09. That would put them at ~150 range in 2010. Is that low enough fast enough? By 2010 the big cable companies expect to have DOCSIS 3.0 rolled out to 50% of their subscribers. Which will open up download speeds in excess of 50Mbps.

Is Sony the only manufacturer that makes Blu-Ray players?

They are clearly the leader. So unless you have found information otherwise. I'd take their vision as gold until state otherwise.

 

[pennylane]

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: cliftonite

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
It's humorous that BDA thought they'd have a home run if they destroyed HD DVD by pouring money into getting exclusive studios and subsidizing the PS3 to a massive extent.

Yet they won a phyrric victory. They spent a shit-ton of money, vanquished their opponent, but have lost the real war.

Not everybody is going to run out and buy a BD player for $300 and then spend $30 per disc for what they consider a "marginal" improvement.

That was what was nice about HD DVD, it was far cheaper, offered more bells and whistles.

The math doesn't add up. HDTVs only have about 35% of the total consumer TV market, of those most think DVD is just fine for the value, lets say 75%. That means they are limited to about 9% of the entire TV market, which isn't jack shit.

If they stopped being complete morons, dropped the price of players to $200, launched BDs at $5 premium over day and date DVDs, they might spur more interest.

However, they are completely screwing up the situation.

You dont think player prices will come down? Disc prices of HDDVD vs Bluray were a wash for the most part.

Sony is claiming 100 per year through 09. That would put them at ~150 range in 2010. Is that low enough fast enough? By 2010 the big cable companies expect to have DOCSIS 3.0 rolled out to 50% of their subscribers. Which will open up download speeds in excess of 50Mbps.

Is Sony the only manufacturer that makes Blu-Ray players?

There are others. Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Sharp, Philips all have players out. More companies are making them and should have them in the market in a few months.

Streaming will happen eventually, but I'm skeptical for now because certainly they'll compress the hell out of everything, at least at first.

 

[nataku00]

I think the main block to on-line content replacing physical content will be that the US consumer is still fairly far behind Asia or Europe in adapting broadband internet for typical households and the network still needs some time to be upgraded in many areas.

 

[erwos]

Disc prices, IMHO, are the real culprit. I think high-end consumers could stomach $200 for a player, but $30 a disc at retail (and good luck seeing a worthwhile sale on them!) is just over the top. Get the prices to parity with DVDs, and things might pick up. More compelling titles wouldn't hurt, either. It's killing me that they haven't released The Lord of the Rings or The Matrix trilogies on BR-D yet. I mean, if this is the high-end segment you're targeting, why the hell aren't you doing high-end releases? Also, where are the TV shows?

My final rant is about the lack of a network-capable BR-D/DVD 400 disc mega changer. Sony: get me one with profile 2.0, 1080p DVD upscale, and the full complement of sound codecs (including bitstream), and I'll pay you well, and so will any other number of HT enthusiasts. (You could also update the 995v while you're at it, as that thing's damned old.)

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: erwos
Disc prices, IMHO, are the real culprit. I think high-end consumers could stomach $200 for a player, but $30 a disc at retail (and good luck seeing a worthwhile sale on them!) is just over the top. Get the prices to parity with DVDs, and things might pick up. More compelling titles wouldn't hurt, either. It's killing me that they haven't released The Lord of the Rings or The Matrix trilogies on BR-D yet. I mean, if this is the high-end segment you're targeting, why the hell aren't you doing high-end releases? Also, where are the TV shows?

I agree. All of the BDs I've purchased have been part of a 2/$50 deal that is always going on at my local store and even then it still feels expensive and the selection is rather limited. I'd be much happier buying movies (and I'd buy a tonne more) if they were around $20. Who knows if/when that will happen.

KT

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: erwos
It's killing me that they haven't released The Lord of the Rings or The Matrix trilogies on BR-D yet. I mean, if this is the high-end segment you're targeting, why the hell aren't you doing high-end releases? Also, where are the TV shows?

There are far more big title releases out on Blu-ray's than were out on dvd, within the first two years of it's life. For the mega-titles like Lord of the Rings, if they released it this month, they maybe would sell 100k the first week, *maybe* (and I can't stress maybe enough) 500k by the end of the year. If they wait a few years for Blu-ray to gain more popularity, it would easily sell a few million in the first week.

Lord of the Rings is New Line's biggest chance to cash in on the Blu-ray format, and they just are not going to squander the opportunity releasing it so early. It's also why we see Pixar movies trickling out one per year, instead of them making a splash releasing them all at once.

It's nothing against Blu-ray, or the popularity, or non-popularity of the format, it's just the way the business works. Look how long it took such titles as Indiana Jones, The Godfather, Star Wars, etc. to release on dvd, many many years into the format's life.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
I really wanted a standalone player, but ended up getting a PS3 due to the fact it is the best thing available at that price point.

Everyone's listed the pros for it, so I won't mention them, but the the 2 big cons (for me anyway) are:

1. It's ugly as sin

2. No IR support so i can't use my universal remote with it (hugely disappointing)

I'll never use the thing to play games, so that functionality is comepltely wasted on me. In the end though, the pros outweighed the cons and it seriously outweighed any of the standalones I looked at.

Once standalones come down in price and include all of the features I need/want, I'll sell my PS3 and get one of them. Hopefully it will be soon.

KT

This will take care of your second con.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: erwos
Disc prices, IMHO, are the real culprit. I think high-end consumers could stomach $200 for a player, but $30 a disc at retail (and good luck seeing a worthwhile sale on them!) is just over the top. Get the prices to parity with DVDs, and things might pick up. More compelling titles wouldn't hurt, either. It's killing me that they haven't released The Lord of the Rings or The Matrix trilogies on BR-D yet. I mean, if this is the high-end segment you're targeting, why the hell aren't you doing high-end releases? Also, where are the TV shows?

I agree. All of the BDs I've purchased have been part of a 2/$50 deal that is always going on at my local store and even then it still feels expensive and the selection is rather limited. I'd be much happier buying movies (and I'd buy a tonne more) if they were around $20. Who knows if/when that will happen.

KT

You can find BD's for an average of $20 now if you shop around. That's about my average since I've been buying. It would be quite a bit less if I didn't have to have the new releases. When it comes to Blu, the internet is your friend.