Blasted all wheel drive

Reckoner

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
10,851
1
81
One unrepairable flat now means I get to go shopping for 4 new tires. This SUCKS






The responses make this a thread more suited to the garage than OT.
admin allisolm
 
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Reckoner

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
10,851
1
81
Did the dealership tell you this?

Town fair tire, which is about as trustworthy as a stealership so I googled it and it appears to be validated. Only other option is to buy one and have it shaved down to an equal circumference but continental doesn't supply the original contiextremecontact any longer.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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If you have a tranny/diff setup that has settings like 2L/2H/4L/4H, then you can leave in 2wd mode. I think that only exists in actual 4WD vehicles though. If you have a full-time AWD setup, well that makes things a bit worse.

Many AWD systems are basically FWD or RWD only 99% of the time, with power put to the other wheels in the case of lost traction on the primary wheels.
 

Reckoner

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
10,851
1
81
If you have a tranny/diff setup that has settings like 2L/2H/4L/4H, then you can leave in 2wd mode. I think that only exists in actual 4WD vehicles though. If you have a full-time AWD setup, well that makes things a bit worse.

Many AWD systems are basically FWD or RWD only 99% of the time, with power put to the other wheels in the case of lost traction on the primary wheels.

My car is an 05 Subaru legacy gt. I guess subies are especially sensitive to this...
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
My car is an 05 Subaru legacy gt. I guess subies are especially sensitive to this...

Subaru uses full-time symmetrical, not computer controlled. Go to the Garage or NASIOC, maybe you can find an alternative. Also, try Craigslist, maybe somebody will have a similarly worn tire.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
What I don't get is that even with all tires being the same, all 4 don't wear down the same do they?

Is the system really sensitive to what, 1/20 of an inch?
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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What I don't get is that even with all tires being the same, all 4 don't wear down the same do they?

Is the system really sensitive to what, 1/20 of an inch?

It's not so much the diameter of the tire being the problem rather than the ongoing difference in traction/resistance causing undue stress on the differential AFAIK. By diameter I mean tiny differences on tires that are the same size. Obviously running a 15" tire along with 16" tires on an AWD (or FWD/RWD on the drive wheels) is a bad idea any time.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
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It's not so much the diameter of the tire being the problem rather than the ongoing difference in traction/resistance causing undue stress on the differential AFAIK. By diameter I mean tiny differences on tires that are the same size. Obviously running a 15" tire along with 16" tires on an AWD (or FWD/RWD on the drive wheels) is a bad idea any time.

The diameter is actually a key part of it. The AWD systems want everything to be turning at the same rate, and they will propel the tires to keep all four of them turning at the same rate. Now, if one of them slips, it sees that wheel turning faster than the other three, and will react (cut power to that wheel, add power to the others, et cetera). So it's not so much the traction/resistance, it is how fast the wheel is spinning (or not spinning) in relation to the other wheels, and during normal cruising (i.e. not slipping), the diameter is the only real effect on that.

If the diameter of one wheel is larger than the others, it will travel further with each rotation, yet the drivetrain only supplies it with a certain rotation speed - something has to give. So the drivetrain thinks that tire is constantly slipping, and thus is constantly making adjustments, and it isn't happy with doing that.

Most AWD manufacturers have rolling diameter tolerances, with 2-3% being very common. So if you're driving on a 225/50R17 tire (it's a pretty common size) with 8/32 tread, you have a rolling diameter of 670mm, while 4/32 tread makes a rolling diameter of 664mm - that's about .5% difference. It's a pretty small value, I don't know exactly how sensitive Subaru is on that. A computer-controlled part-time AWD generally won't notice. So yeah, the major problem is differently sized wheels/tires, as you suggested, mixing 15 and 16 inch wheels.

I would actually think the OP could get away with a tire of the same size, similar wear level, and similar type. So a used all season tire of fairly average grip, in the same size, with about the same amount of tread left, might work. It should be measured unloaded compared to the tire it would be replacing, as some manufacturers do have variance. Example: I recently put snow tires on a car, two separate pairs of them, and found that one pair, despite being the same labeled size, was actually 1/2" taller. Fortunately, that was a FWD car, and it doesn't care.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
Straight from his Subaru manual:

For safe vehicle operation, SUBARU recommends replacing
all four tires at the same time.

WARNING

All four tires must be the same in terms of
manufacturer, brand (tread pattern), construction,
degree of wear, speed symbol, load index
and size. Mixing tires of different types, sizes or
degrees of wear can result in damage to the vehicle's power train. Use of different types or sizes of tires can also dangerously reduce controllability
and braking performance and can lead
to an accident.
 

Bacstar

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2006
1,273
30
91
I have an AWD vehicle now, and I was just reading about the issue with the tolerances when replacing tires. I can't remember the actual allowable difference, but remember it seems pretty small.

If it's such a problem, why do I get one of the small donut tires as a spare? Wouldn't that put a lot of strain on any differential I put it on in case of a flat?
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
I have an AWD vehicle now, and I was just reading about the issue with the tolerances when replacing tires. I can't remember the actual allowable difference, but remember it seems pretty small.

If it's such a problem, why do I get one of the small donut tires as a spare? Wouldn't that put a lot of strain on any differential I put it on in case of a flat?

What's your car?
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
I have an AWD vehicle now, and I was just reading about the issue with the tolerances when replacing tires. I can't remember the actual allowable difference, but remember it seems pretty small.

If it's such a problem, why do I get one of the small donut tires as a spare? Wouldn't that put a lot of strain on any differential I put it on in case of a flat?

Subaru has you deactivate the symmetrical AWD when you use the donut. The procedure is in the manual for the car.
 

WT

Diamond Member
Sep 21, 2000
4,816
60
91
My car is an 05 Subaru legacy gt. I guess subies are especially sensitive to this...

Found that out at the local Auto Zone this past weekend. Dude behind the counter was a Subie owner and he clued me in to this weirdness.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,576
126
The AWD deactivation is only on certain engine/trans combos:

NOTE
If your vehicle is an AWD type with an automatic
transmission but is neither a Turbo model nor a
3.0-liter model, deactivate its all-wheel-drive capability
as follows: Before driving your vehicle with
the temporary spare tire, put a spare fuse inside
the FWD connector located in the engine compartment
and confirm that the AWD warning light
comes on. The all wheel drive capability of the vehicle
has now been deactivated. After re-installing
the conventional tire, remove the spare fuse from
the FWD connector in order to reactivate all wheel
drive.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,655
2,935
136
I have an AWD vehicle now, and I was just reading about the issue with the tolerances when replacing tires. I can't remember the actual allowable difference, but remember it seems pretty small.

If it's such a problem, why do I get one of the small donut tires as a spare? Wouldn't that put a lot of strain on any differential I put it on in case of a flat?

There's a difference between driving on a donut spare for 10 miles to the tire shop and driving on two different diameter/treaded tires for the next 40,000 miles.