Blackjack at (Partypoker, Paradise Poker, etC)

[dxkj]

I bought back in at party poker for a tournament and finished within 8 places of money, was fun, kinda annoying for 2hrs of play.

Anyway, I had $16 left and decided to play blackjack for fun using a strategy card to remind me of good things to do . I did a few variations when I felt I had a better idea, and it worked most of the time.

Anyway, I turned $16 into $50 and cashed back out so I was even for the day. My question is, is it possible to win consistently against the house? These places let you push when you tie the dealer, always hit in soft 17 and hit on anything 16 and lower, stand at 17, blackjack pays 3 to 2, insurance 2 to 1, and they allow you to surrender (which i think is useful).

With those rules in mind.... possible?

 

[Mo0o]

If the deck isn't reshuffled after every play (doubtful), you can card count

 

[necine]

Well blackjack is 51-49 in favor of the house. The reason this game is a cashcow for the casino is that even if people win playing blackjack they typically lose it by trying to win more or lose it at a different game. Yes, you can win playing blackjack, just know when to quit.

I made 600 bucks playing poker today so maybe u wanna try switching games?

 

[compuwiz1]

Whatever odds you understand about the game of Blackjack should go right out the window when playing online. I would find it unlikely that the software could be truely random. If most all of these casinos are based outside of US jurisdiction, that shoud tell you something. I'd avoid them.

 

[JLGatsby]

Trying to beat Blackjack is a waste of time.

There is no way they wouldn't reshuffle the deck for an online game because people could easily develop software that would count cards perfectly, this would spread and bankrupt them.

So much easier to beat fish at low limit poker.

 

[car3]

no

 

[Ketteringo]

Some casinos offer bonuses that make playing BJ +EV, but most of the time it's -EV.

 

[compuwiz1]

I've known extremely disciplined professionals over the years, who can count cards, and supplement their income nicely from playing blackjack. Even they avoid playing online.

 

[Descartes]

I work with one of the MIT kids (well, he's no longer a kid) that took down the proverbial house that you hear about so much, and he was able to win millions in collaboration with others from their team. He explained to me his process of counting cards, his risk strategy, etc. but I didn't retain much. I don't know how much he took away personally, but they were incredibly successful as a team.

So, with that said, anything is possible. I'm not a gambler, and I know little about blackjack; however, those that say it can't be done are likely doing so in opposition to those who are doing it. If it interests you and you think you have an edge, exploit it and forget what anyone else says.

 

[holden j caufield]

why would blackjack online be on the up and up. No one to checs up on them. Based all in costa rica or other 3rd world country

 

[Viper GTS]

Online casinos typically use 8 decks, there's no way to card count your way into a +EV situation.

Don't play BlackJack for money (or any other game with a house edge) unless you're playing with bonus money (which temporarily shifts the advantage to you) and using a calculated sheet to play perfect strategy.

I wouldn't worry too much about how "random" it is, online card games have been around long enough to be well proven.

Viper GTS

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: Descartes
I work with one of the MIT kids (well, he's no longer a kid) that took down the proverbial house that you hear about so much, and he was able to win millions in collaboration with others from their team. He explained to me his process of counting cards, his risk strategy, etc. but I didn't retain much. I don't know how much he took away personally, but they were incredibly successful as a team.

If I'm not mistaken the MIT kids used hidden computers to do that, which is exactly why an online casino would never not reshuffle their deck after every hand, which eliminates most strategies.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: holden j caufield
why would blackjack online be on the up and up. No one to checs up on them. Based all in costa rica or other 3rd world country

They're based there because they HAVE to be, they're not legally allowed to be based in the US.

And yes, they are checked up on. Independant verification is the norm, particularly for the large casinos (IGM is HUGE).

No matter how honest they are though THEY ARE STILL THE HOUSE. They will break you eventually, unless you play with their money.

Never, ever play house edge games with your own money.

BTW this kind of crap:

I did a few variations when I felt I had a better idea

Will get you in trouble. If you cannot force yourself to adhere to perfect strategy then you should just quit right now. The point of perfect strategy is to minimize the house edge, the only way to maximize your EV is to follow it to the letter.

Use a calculator, make sure you're playing right for the game you're in but DO NOT DEVIATE from what the sheet says.

Viper GTS

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: Descartes
I work with one of the MIT kids (well, he's no longer a kid) that took down the proverbial house that you hear about so much, and he was able to win millions in collaboration with others from their team. He explained to me his process of counting cards, his risk strategy, etc. but I didn't retain much. I don't know how much he took away personally, but they were incredibly successful as a team.

If I'm not mistaken the MIT kids used hidden computers to do that, which is exactly why an online casino would never not reshuffle their deck after every hand, which eliminates most strategies.

No, they absolutely did not; well, at least not his team. I haven't read the book, but he did state that he unequivocally did not use any sort of computer or recording device; however, they would communicate to other team members.

Of course, he could have been using a computer and lied to appear smarter, but I have no reason to believe that.

 

[holden j caufield]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: holden j caufield
why would blackjack online be on the up and up. No one to checs up on them. Based all in costa rica or other 3rd world country

They're based there because they HAVE to be, they're not legally allowed to be based in the US.

And yes, they are checked up on. Independant verification is the norm, particularly for the large casinos (IGM is HUGE).

No matter how honest they are though THEY ARE STILL THE HOUSE. They will break you eventually, unless you play with their money.

Never, ever play house edge games with your own money.

BTW this kind of crap:

I did a few variations when I felt I had a better idea

Will get you in trouble. If you cannot force yourself to adhere to perfect strategy then you should just quit right now. The point of perfect strategy is to minimize the house edge, the only way to maximize your EV is to follow it to the letter.

Use a calculator, make sure you're playing right for the game you're in but DO NOT DEVIATE from what the sheet says.

Viper GTS

Ok here is something that suggests they let you win when you try out the games via the play money and the opposite happens when you play for real money

http://www.scom.ulaval.ca/Communiques.d...sse/2005/fevrier/Internetgambling.html

Customers lured by inflated demo game payouts



Quebec City, February 3, 2005 ? Free demo periods offered by Internet gambling sites to attract customers show inflated payout rates when compared to real games involving money, observed scientists from Université Laval?s School of Psychology in a study published in the latest issue of Computers in Human Behavior.

Researchers Serge Sévigny, Martin Cloutier, Marie-France Pelletier, and Robert Ladouceur visited 117 Internet gambling sites where they played 100 slot machine games in free demonstration mode. On 45 of these sites, payout rates were superior to 100% during the demo period. The researchers played 400 additional demo games on these sites, at the end of which 21 still yielded payout rates far superior to 100%.

Sévigny and his colleagues then randomly selected five of the 21 sites, in which payout rates ranged from 110% to 520%. They deposited $100 and started playing with real money. After 100 games, payout rates had dramatically decreased on four of the five sites, ranging from 49% to 84%. On the fifth site, the team of scientists won $14 but the site owner refused to pay, arguing that not enough games had been played.



In order to make sure that chance was not responsible for this reversal of fortune, Sévigny?s team went back to playing in demo mode. On each of the five sites, payout rates came back up to levels ranging from 114% to 238%.

?Yet many of these sites claim that their demo session provides the same characteristics as the real game,? points out Sévigny. ?Our study shows, on the contrary, that payout rates during games involving money are sometimes much lower than during the demo periods. In addition, nothing guarantees that you?ll receive any money even if you win.?

The scientist worries about the problems that the availability of Internet gambling could create: ?People can play in the privacy of their homes, credit cards in hand, without any social pressure or control. These games are accessible even at work. The risk becomes even greater with unrealistically generous payout rates in demo games.?

The Internet gambling industry is estimated to be several billion dollars a year. Women make up about 40% of the Internet gambling clientele. In Quebec, about 14,000 adults gambled on the Internet in 2002.



Located in the heart of Quebec's historic capital city, Université Laval is one of Canada's leading universities, offering more than 450 programs to 38,000 students. Among the top ten Canadian universities in terms of research, it received more than $265 million in research funding last year.





- 30 -



Information:

Serge Sévigny

School of Psychology

Université Laval

Tel.: (418) 656-2131 ext. 8557

Serge.Sevigny@psy.ulaval.ca

Source:

Jean-François Huppé

Media Relations

Université Laval

Tel. : (418) 656-7785


PS I know nothing about this university and whether or not it's credible.

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: necine
Well blackjack is 51-49 in favor of the house. The reason this game is a cashcow for the casino is that even if people win playing blackjack they typically lose it by trying to win more or lose it at a different game. Yes, you can win playing blackjack, just know when to quit.

I made 600 bucks playing poker today so maybe u wanna try switching games?

I play poker, just NL hold'em. Im up $300 since i started that but Im sick of noobs chasing cards and hitting and busting me out on big hands...

today was the first time ive played money poker online and I just did it to see how it would go... I have no delusions about making money on it

 

[anxi80]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I've known extremely disciplined professionals over the years, who can count cards, and supplement their income nicely from playing blackjack. Even they avoid playing online.

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Whatever odds you understand about the game of Blackjack should go right out the window when playing online. I would find it unlikely that the software could be truely random. If most all of these casinos are based outside of US jurisdiction, that shoud tell you something. I'd avoid them.

a couple reasons why i avoid online gambling. i truly believe that ill pick up bad habits that will carry over to the casinos (splitting a lower pair against a dealer's 7, playing suited connectors trying to chase a straight or flush all the way up to 5th street). also as someone who truly believes in playing the player and not the cards, i would need to get read's off my opponents.

but then again i have my main reason for avoiding online gambling... i have the luxury of being surrounded by various casino's.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: holden j caufield
Ok here is something that suggests they let you win when you try out the games via the play money and the opposite happens when you play for real money

I would be interested to see their full data set on that, but at a quick glance their sample size doesn't seem to be nearly large enough.

Researchers Serge Sévigny, Martin Cloutier, Marie-France Pelletier, and Robert Ladouceur visited 117 Internet gambling sites where they played 100 slot machine games in free demonstration mode. On 45 of these sites, payout rates were superior to 100% during the demo period. The researchers played 400 additional demo games on these sites, at the end of which 21 still yielded payout rates far superior to 100%.

Sévigny and his colleagues then randomly selected five of the 21 sites, in which payout rates ranged from 110% to 520%. They deposited $100 and started playing with real money. After 100 games, payout rates had dramatically decreased on four of the five sites, ranging from 49% to 84%. On the fifth site, the team of scientists won $14 but the site owner refused to pay, arguing that not enough games had been played.

It looks like they played 500 "games" (could be interpreted as hands of blackjack) in free mode, & only 100 in real. Neither sample size is large enough to get anywhere near an accurate payoff rate. It would take many tens of thousands of hands per game to get an even remotely accurate payoff rate.

Additionally the refusal to pay is standard fare when bonus money is involved. You have to complete the wagering requirements to withdraw any of your money, including your original deposit. They aren't stupid, they're not going to let you lose your bonus money & walk away with no risk to yourself.

Viper GTS

 

[amoeba]

I was infuriated when party added blackjack.

To the OP, no, its not possible to consistently win at party blackjack especially due to party's almost nonexistant bonuses.

 

[KnickNut3]

Originally posted by: dxkj
I did a few variations when I felt I had a better idea, and it worked most of the time.

You really don't understand Blackjack, then. How can you have a "better idea" than perfect strategy? I can't understand people who play by "feel." It's straight probability.

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
They're based there because they HAVE to be, they're not legally allowed to be based in the US.

And yes, they are checked up on. Independant verification is the norm, particularly for the large casinos (IGM is HUGE).

Your point is true--but IGM handles money, it doesn't own the casinos.

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Online casinos typically use 8 decks, there's no way to card count your way into a +EV situation.

While you can't count casinos because they shuffle every hand (and there is VERY little advantage to be made by changing decisions based on 3 or 5 cards dealt), you CAN overcome the disadvantage of 8 decks counting with decent penetration.

Originally posted by: anxi80
a couple reasons why i avoid online gambling. i truly believe that ill pick up bad habits that will carry over to the casinos (splitting a lower pair against a dealer's 7, playing suited connectors trying to chase a straight or flush all the way up to 5th street).

Why would you ever do this? Does being watched by others make you play better? Or do you bet so small online that you don't mind throwing your money away for a little fun?

 

[spidey07]

don't know. But I like those rules and would love to play at a casino that had them.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: dxkj
I play poker, just NL hold'em. Im up $300 since i started that but Im sick of noobs chasing cards and hitting and busting me out on big hands...

I'd suggest sticking to play money until you understand the ridiculousness of your statement.

 

[JS80]

You can't beat computerized BJ because it's random cards everyhand, i.e. you can't "count" the cards.

 

[Toonces]

Originally posted by: holden j caufield
PS I know nothing about this university and whether or not it's credible.

It's probably the second best university in Quebec next to McGill... it's as credible as any large state university in the US.

 

[dxkj]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: dxkj
I play poker, just NL hold'em. Im up $300 since i started that but Im sick of noobs chasing cards and hitting and busting me out on big hands...

I'd suggest sticking to play money until you understand the ridiculousness of your statement.

Im sick of noobs, chasing cards, and hitting and busting me out on big hands?



AA, bet hard pre-flop, they call with 4 2 clubs

Flop comes Ac Kc 8h, I bet hard, they call

Turn comes 6d, still nothing anyone could possibly have that would beat me... so i bet VERY hard, they call all-in

river comes 3 clubs.... they hit their flush...


I played it the right way, and i will take those odds EVERY time, but when it happens several times in a row, yes I get sick of it.