BlackBerry PlayBook tablet announced

[Spicedaddy]

How can you say they're functional when you've never seen a single human interact with one? Even the CEO doesn't touch the screen once during his presentation.

edit:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/black...emo-ware-tablet/39745?tag=mantle_skin;content

 

[Deeko]

How can you say they're functional when you've never seen a single human interact with one? Even the CEO doesn't touch the screen once during his presentation.

edit:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/black...emo-ware-tablet/39745?tag=mantle_skin;content

That article lost credit REAL fast when he said one of the iPad's killer features was its price. The price on the iPad is its biggest downfall - while its a cool device, in typical first gen Apple fashion, its way, way overpriced.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Wow, this is classic. RIM announce something with specs to shame all comers, and so all the haters call it fake.

Oh well.

 

[Spicedaddy]

...and fanboys will believe anything.

LOL, it's a fully working product they were showing, they just didn't feel like using it during the demo.

 

[MrX8503]

That article lost credit REAL fast when he said one of the iPad's killer features was its price. The price on the iPad is its biggest downfall - while its a cool device, in typical first gen Apple fashion, its way, way overpriced.

Isn't the Galaxy tab almost $1000 USD?

 

[Deeko]

Are you attempting to suggest that one product, not even released, being horridly overpriced makes up for another?

Do you realize that they charge $130 for the privilege of a 3G chip? Amazon only charges $50 for that on the Kindle...and the Kindle comes with free 3G service for that $50 as well. Say what you will about the quality of the iPad, but its still overpriced.

 

[TheStu]

Are you attempting to suggest that one product, not even released, being horridly overpriced makes up for another?

Do you realize that they charge $130 for the privilege of a 3G chip? Amazon only charges $50 for that on the Kindle...and the Kindle comes with free 3G service for that $50 as well. Say what you will about the quality of the iPad, but its still overpriced.

No... it is expensive. It only becomes overpriced when a competitor comes out that meets or exceeds its capabilities at a lower price. Since it is the only object in its segment, it is not overpriced.

Also, Divide I don't think that it has anything to do with people feeling threatened by the very nice spec sheet on the yet to be released, not actually used by anyone yet, PlayBook. I think that they are instead emphasizing the 'yet to be released-ness' and the 'not actually used by anyone yet-isity'.

Deeko, the iPad was announced 3 or so months before it was available for purchase, but immediately after Jobs talked about how magical it was, reporters were able to put their hands on them and actually feel and experience it for themselves. However, Microsoft did announce the Metro UI and WinPho7 requirements months before review units were in people's hands.

 

[Deeko]

No... it is expensive. It only becomes overpriced when a competitor comes out that meets or exceeds its capabilities at a lower price. Since it is the only object in its segment, it is not overpriced.

Also, Divide I don't think that it has anything to do with people feeling threatened by the very nice spec sheet on the yet to be released, not actually used by anyone yet, PlayBook. I think that they are instead emphasizing the 'yet to be released-ness' and the 'not actually used by anyone yet-isity'.

Deeko, the iPad was announced 3 or so months before it was available for purchase, but immediately after Jobs talked about how magical it was, reporters were able to put their hands on them and actually feel and experience it for themselves. However, Microsoft did announce the Metro UI and WinPho7 requirements months before review units were in people's hands.

spicedaddy wasn't talking about announcing early with no hands on (and if he claims that now, he's changing his story). He said its stupid to announce a product this far in advance of release because it tells your competitors what you're doing. The iPad is a perfectly acceptable counter example.

As for being overpriced - the hardware is that of an iPod Touch, only with a bigger screen. Only it costs over twice as much. I already gave a very clear example of the 3G add on being laughably overpriced compared to other devices. The closest direct competitor is the netbook, which also provides better hardware for less money.

Naturally perceived worth vs actual worth are very different concepts, but compared to its closest competitors in the market right now, the iPad is obscenely overpriced. And even if you disagree and think its a fair price - that article called out the price as a strength. You can make claims about the iPad being a lot of things, but "cheap" or "underpriced" are not even discussable.

 

[TheStu]

spicedaddy wasn't talking about announcing early with no hands on (and if he claims that now, he's changing his story). He said its stupid to announce a product this far in advance of release because it tells your competitors what you're doing. The iPad is a perfectly acceptable counter example.

Ah, I misunderstood. You are right then, on that basis, the iPad is a good example, so is the first iPhone, announced in January and launched in June.

As for being overpriced - the hardware is that of an iPod Touch, only with a bigger screen. Only it costs over twice as much. I already gave a very clear example of the 3G add on being laughably overpriced compared to other devices. The closest direct competitor is the netbook, which also provides better hardware for less money.

The 3G addition is stupidly expensive. However, I don't think it is fair to tout the free access on the Kindle, you cannot do even 10% of the things on the Kindle that you can do on the iPad. The browser is a joke, there is 1 game, there are no apps, and there are no maps (just to name a few things).

Better hardware is a misnomer. Better specs would be more appropriate. And although in the couch-puter, just an additional device for web browsing the netbook is in the same area, I would argue that the iPad is more than just that, and can do any number of things that a netbook cannot (and vice versa as well.)

Naturally perceived worth vs actual worth are very different concepts, but compared to its closest competitors in the market right now, the iPad is obscenely overpriced. And even if you disagree and think its a fair price - that article called out the price as a strength. You can make claims about the iPad being a lot of things, but "cheap" or "underpriced" are not even discussable.

If we are just talking the tablet market, the sub 2lbs, 10 hour battery, all touch input market, then the iPad has no existing competitors. There is that $150 KMart tablet, but it doesn't have an app store and I don't think the battery life is close. The JooJoo exists... I think?, but again, it doesn't have the battery life, doesn't have an app store, and by all accounts, sucks something fierce.

And I never said that it was cheap or underpriced. All I said was calling it overpriced, when there are no other devices in its field is unwarranted. Call it expensive, I take no umbrage with that. And you can call the add-ons (3G) and the peripherals overpriced.

 

[MrX8503]

Are you attempting to suggest that one product, not even released, being horridly overpriced makes up for another?

Do you realize that they charge $130 for the privilege of a 3G chip? Amazon only charges $50 for that on the Kindle...and the Kindle comes with free 3G service for that $50 as well. Say what you will about the quality of the iPad, but its still overpriced.

No other tablet exists. The only tablet that came forward with a price was the Samsung Tab and it was suggested at $1k. Any and all prospective tablets were at least $500. I'm quite positive that you won't get a cheaper tablet than the iPad with similar specs. A lot of upcoming tablets will be on contract. I wouldn't say the iPad's price is a strength, but I wouldn't say its overpriced if there isn't a competitor with a similar price point.

Kindle != Tablet

 

[s44]

Isn't the Galaxy tab almost $1000 USD?

No.

 

[Deeko]

No other tablet exists. The only tablet that came forward with a price was the Samsung Tab and it was suggested at $1k. Any and all prospective tablets were at least $500. I'm quite positive that you won't get a cheaper tablet than the iPad with similar specs. A lot of upcoming tablets will be on contract. I wouldn't say the iPad's price is a strength, but I wouldn't say its overpriced if there isn't a competitor with a similar price point.

"No other tablet exists".....ehm, no, that's not true. There have been tablet PCs for years. However, they were tablets from a different mold. They were laptops with a touch screen, as opposed to MP3 players with bigger screens and twice the price.

What are you going to say if the PlayBook is offered at a similar price point to the iPad? Are you going to say this statement is still true, because it doesn't have similar specs - it has far superior specs?

While you are "positive" there will be no tablet with the iPads specs for that price, I am confident that there certainly will be. Maybe it won't be the Tab - but that doesn't mean one won't exist. Of course, when it happens, you'll deny that it matters because it isn't as high profile a product, right?

Kindle != Tablet

Ha! This is an absolutely pathetic cop out and you know it. Does the fact that the Kindle is not a tablet have anything to do with the fact that they both need a 3G chip to access 3G, and that Apple charges nearly 3x what Amazon does for what is basically the same chip, excluding the fact that Amazon is including data with it as well?

The iPad wants to be an e-reader, so why do you think you can just dodge the comparison? Face the facts. Apple rapes you for the 3G capability in the iPad. Whether you think $499 for the base is overpriced or not, there is absolutely, positively, no non-troll way you can deny that $130 for 3G capability is extraordinarily overpriced. Please, save us time and don't try. You'll be wrong, you'll know you're wrong, you'll just be arguing for the sake of it.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Apple had floated a $399 price to it's partners pre release, and went with $100 higher across the line up.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop the price $100 on the old model when the next gen iPad appears.

They have refurbished WiFi 16 gb for $449 now.

I suspect the iPad will rule the sector for some time at those prices

As far as comparing the iPad and Kindle, it's a pretty difficult leap...

BB is in fact attempting to "freeze" the market, particularly with it's corporate customers.

 

[MrX8503]

"No other tablet exists".....ehm, no, that's not true. There have been tablet PCs for years. However, they were tablets from a different mold. They were laptops with a touch screen, as opposed to MP3 players with bigger screens and twice the price.

Lets be serious here, we know what kind of tablets we're talking about. Lets stay in the correct time frame.

What are you going to say if the PlayBook is offered at a similar price point to the iPad? Are you going to say this statement is still true, because it doesn't have similar specs - it has far superior specs?

I would say the Playbook is a good deal.

While you are "positive" there will be no tablet with the iPads specs for that price, I am confident that there certainly will be. Maybe it won't be the Tab - but that doesn't mean one won't exist. Of course, when it happens, you'll deny that it matters because it isn't as high profile a product, right?

False, re read my post. I said that I'm positive that there won't be a cheaper tablet than the ipad with similar specs. I think this only because current tablet prospects are expensive. If there is one cheaper than the iPad then so be it, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

Ha! This is an absolutely pathetic cop out and you know it. Does the fact that the Kindle is not a tablet have anything to do with the fact that they both need a 3G chip to access 3G, and that Apple charges nearly 3x what Amazon does for what is basically the same chip, excluding the fact that Amazon is including data with it as well?

The iPad wants to be an e-reader, so why do you think you can just dodge the comparison? Face the facts. Apple rapes you for the 3G capability in the iPad. Whether you think $499 for the base is overpriced or not, there is absolutely, positively, no non-troll way you can deny that $130 for 3G capability is extraordinarily overpriced. Please, save us time and don't try. You'll be wrong, you'll know you're wrong, you'll just be arguing for the sake of it.

Uh...first off, chill out. Second you've been wrong before and have argued for the sake of arguing.

Now that that is out of the way. I never said that the 3G chip wasn't a ripoff, I was stating that the Kindle is not a tablet. The 3G chip that Apple offers is a ripoff.

What I'm also saying is that an iPad will use substantially more data than a Kindle. What you're trying to do is push your point across that the iPad is overpriced but there isn't anything else to compare it to. You're comparing the iPad to all of these random devices (tablets of yesteryear, kindle) that are irrelevant.

 

[Deeko]

Lets be serious here, we know what kind of tablets we're talking about. Lets stay in the correct time frame.

I would say the Playbook is a good deal.

False, re read my post. I said that I'm positive that there won't be a cheaper tablet than the ipad with similar specs. I think this only because current tablet prospects are expensive. If there is one cheaper than the iPad then so be it, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

In other words, there were rumors of the Tab being more expensive than the iPad, therefore you made a definitive statement that you're "quite positive" nothing will be cheaper, based on little to no evidence. You won't lose any sleep when you're wrong, because you're an unabashed Apple troll that doesn't care if he's right - all you're concerned with is touting how great Apple is.

Uh...first off, chill out. Second you've been wrong before and have argued for the sake of arguing.

Now that that is out of the way. I never said that the 3G chip wasn't a ripoff, I was stating that the Kindle is not a tablet. The 3G chip that Apple offers is a ripoff.

What I'm also saying is that an iPad will use substantially more data than a Kindle. What you're trying to do is push your point across that the iPad is overpriced but there isn't anything else to compare it to. You're comparing the iPad to all of these random devices (tablets of yesteryear, kindle) that are irrelevant.

This is a cutesy way of saying "You're right, Deeko. I was entirely, 100% wrong when I attempted to refute you about this being overpriced. I didn't want to admit it, so I tried to deflect"

Good work, that's a step in the right direction!!

The Kindle is a direct competitor of the iPad, whether its a tablet or not. The amount of data the Kindle uses also has absolutely no bearing on how overpriced the iPad's 3G chip is. Now, of course its more economically feasible for Amazon to include 3G data service for free because of that reason - but it has no impact on the direct, relevant comparison that Apple severely overpriced the 3G capability of the iPad. Period.

Again...there is no arguing this, I'm not sure why you're trying.

 

[Deeko]

Ok. This thread is not about the iPad so I'm going to stop discussing it. My point stands - whether you think the iPad is priced correctly or overpriced, it is decidedly not underpriced, so the author of that article bashing the PlayBook was misplaced in naming that as a strength of the iPad, in addition to the fact that we don't know the PlayBook's pricing and his explanation on why it will be bad is based on nothing.

 

[QueBert]

Ok. This thread is not about the iPad so I'm going to stop discussing it. My point stands - whether you think the iPad is priced correctly or overpriced, it is decidedly not underpriced, so the author of that article bashing the PlayBook was misplaced in naming that as a strength of the iPad, in addition to the fact that we don't know the PlayBook's pricing and his explanation on why it will be bad is based on nothing.

The Playbook will be expensive as shit, this is RIM we're talking about. The Bold's retail is $510, it's has a small non touch screen and isn't very powerful spec wise. When the Motorola Q came out I paid retail for mine, which was $349, the Bold's what I'd consider a 2010 equivalent to a Q. A refurbished Curve cost more than a new HTC Ozone, which is a better phone. And you can get an iPhone or a few Android models for the price of the Bold. Rim's phones are uber expensive, no way in hell this tablet will be reasonably priced. It will be as expensive as an iPad without the good apps store to back it up. Where can I pre-order this bad boy?

 

[MrX8503]

In other words, there were rumors of the Tab being more expensive than the iPad, therefore you made a definitive statement that you're "quite positive" nothing will be cheaper, based on little to no evidence. You won't lose any sleep when you're wrong, because you're an unabashed Apple troll that doesn't care if he's right - all you're concerned with is touting how great Apple is.

This is a cutesy way of saying "You're right, Deeko. I was entirely, 100% wrong when I attempted to refute you about this being overpriced. I didn't want to admit it, so I tried to deflect"

Good work, that's a step in the right direction!!

The Kindle is a direct competitor of the iPad, whether its a tablet or not. The amount of data the Kindle uses also has absolutely no bearing on how overpriced the iPad's 3G chip is. Now, of course its more economically feasible for Amazon to include 3G data service for free because of that reason - but it has no impact on the direct, relevant comparison that Apple severely overpriced the 3G capability of the iPad. Period.

Again...there is no arguing this, I'm not sure why you're trying.

*Sigh*

You didn't even address any of my comments. You're pretty good at deflection. Ah well.

BTW, I don't mind if you call me an Apple troll, but try to come up with a better argument. I own an iPhone 4 device because I prefer it. Most if not all of my comments is to dispel BS. If someone says Android UI is smooth, I'm gonna call that person out and say that is utter BS. Everything I've said has not been lies, you just don't like to hear it because it doesn't paint what you prefer in a good light.

I've said good things about Android, iOS, and RIM. What about you? I've already given praise to the Playbook, but you like to argue for some reason.

 

[Deeko]

BTW, I don't mind if you call me an Apple troll, but try to come up with a better argument. I own an iPhone 4 device because I prefer it. Most if not all of my comments is to dispel BS. If someone says Android UI is smooth, I'm gonna call that person out and say that is utter BS. Everything I've said has not been lies, you just don't like to hear it because it doesn't paint what you prefer in a good light.

Oh? What do I prefer, there, sport? Unlike you, I am not an unabashed fanboy of any platform.

I've said good things about Android, iOS, and RIM. What about you? I've already given praise to the Playbook, but you like to argue for some reason.

What? I always say good things about every platform. Unlike most posters here that insist there's only room for a few platforms, I've maintened that every one has its place - including Palm, RIM, and I've even had good things to say about WinMo 6.5 this year. Also, during the iPhone 4 launch frenzy, I had plenty of good things to say about that, too. I talk down on the iPad for the reasons I've discussed here - I think its a fine product that's not worth the money. That doesn't make me anti-Apple, try as you might to paint it that way.

Most of the people I argue with on here are people who want to mindlessly trash something for no reason other than they're a fanboy for something else - its become quite popular to do so with RIM, hence this thread.

(edit: for as much as you're "calling me out" for not addressing my point, that's exactly what you've done the last few posts regarding the Kindle analogy and the overpriced 3G. You've done nothing but deflect my very legitimate points there. However - I'm not discussing the iPad with you here anymore, as much joy as it would bring you to turn this into an iPad thread)

 

[Deeko]

The Playbook will be expensive as shit, this is RIM we're talking about. The Bold's retail is $510, it's has a small non touch screen and isn't very powerful spec wise. When the Motorola Q came out I paid retail for mine, which was $349, the Bold's what I'd consider a 2010 equivalent to a Q. A refurbished Curve cost more than a new HTC Ozone, which is a better phone. And you can get an iPhone or a few Android models for the price of the Bold. Rim's phones are uber expensive, no way in hell this tablet will be reasonably priced. It will be as expensive as an iPad without the good apps store to back it up. Where can I pre-order this bad boy?

Eh - The Q vs the Bold is a very unfair comparison. Back in the Q's day, most smartphones cost less. I had the T-Mobile Dash - T-Mobile's top smartphone in that era - and I'm pretty sure it was only $299 without contract.

The Bold is on the top end of RIMs line, and it is priced along the same lines (actually slightly cheaper) than most top end phones without a contract. Which Curve are you talking about? There are a lot of Curves, some of which are definitely superior products to the Ozone.

Its nothing but mindless blather to try to call the PlayBook expensive or overpriced before they say the price.

 

[gsaldivar]

Its nothing but mindless blather to try to call the PlayBook expensive or overpriced before they say the price.

Funny, one might say the same thing about hyping up a device that only publicly exists on paper...

 

[MrX8503]

I answered your comments but you avoided mine. Case in point, I agreed that the 3G chip was overpriced but yet you continue to throw "apple troll" around like monkey feces.

I asked you originally about the galaxy tab being $1000 USD and you went into a rampant spiel because it refuted your iPad price argument. My comment was legitimate. I further elaborated my legit comment by asking you of any other similar priced tablets available and the only thing you came up with were tablets of yesteryear.

Apparently you're more concerned about who is a fanboy/troll than looking at the actual facts. I've already stated that the playbook looks great and that the iPad 3G chip is expensive but apparently that wasn't enough for your fanboyism to grasp.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Isn't the Galaxy tab almost $1000 USD?

Yes.

http://www.slashgear.com/o2-germany-list-samsung-galaxy-tab-for-e759-05105984/

Unfortunately, early fears were correct: O2 Germany are asking for €759 ($1,047) overall for the Galaxy Tab.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Gala.../dp/B0042D75TU

Amazon UK $1K

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B004...SIN=B0041RSF6Y

Amazon Germany

The device will be 3G data only here, we shall see how they price it. Honestly, I wish they would have left the phone active in the US version.

 

[Deeko]

I answered your comments but you avoided mine. Case in point, I agreed that the 3G chip was overpriced but yet you continue to throw "apple troll" around like monkey feces.

What are you talking about? I've responded to everything you've said. I stopped the discussion on the iPad's price for obviously, well explained reasons - this is a thread about the PlayBook, and as much as it makes you tingle to get off topic and debate about the iPad, this thread is not about the iPad, and while I've been involved in it getting of course, I did my best to get it back on track. Seemingly, you couldn't accept this.

I asked you originally about the galaxy tab being $1000 USD and you went into a rampant spiel because it refuted your iPad price argument. My comment was legitimate. I further elaborated my legit comment by asking you of any other similar priced tablets available and the only thing you came up with were tablets of yesteryear.

Are you attempting to suggest that one product, not even released, being horridly overpriced makes up for another?

Do you realize that they charge $130 for the privilege of a 3G chip? Amazon only charges $50 for that on the Kindle...and the Kindle comes with free 3G service for that $50 as well. Say what you will about the quality of the iPad, but its still overpriced.

Pretty clear here. I said that just because the Tab is also overpriced, doesn't make the iPad less overpriced. These "tablets of yesteryear" that you're talking about are still being sold. Do you think the iPad is the only "tablet computer" on the market today? I already pointed out that there are other tablets on the market, but apparently I'm "deflecting" unless you get exact links, so here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/Archos-9-PC-Ta.../ref=de_a_smtd
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-T101MT-EU...6298383&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Archos-Home-Ta...6298383&sr=8-5

Those are just the first links that come back from Amazon. I also gave a very clear, recent, and relevant example of the Kindle vs iPad in terms of 3G chip cost. I have decidedly not avoided answering this, I just scoffed at your ridiculous conclusion that because the Tab is overpriced, that its ok for the iPad to be overpriced too.

Apparently you're more concerned about who is a fanboy/troll than looking at the actual facts. I've already stated that the playbook looks great and that the iPad 3G chip is expensive but apparently that wasn't enough for your fanboyism to grasp.

Everything I've said has not been lies, you just don't like to hear it because it doesn't paint what you prefer in a good light.

I've said good things about Android, iOS, and RIM. What about you? I've already given praise to the Playbook, but you like to argue for some reason.

Hypocrisy, thy name is MrX.

You accuse me of deflecting - when you've done it all thread. You accuse me of being concerned with who is a fanboy, while passively attempting to label me one as well (note: you still haven't answered the question about who I'm a fanboy of. Pretty clear if you actually pay attention to my posts that I'm not a fanboy of any platform).

Listen kid, I've already attempted to get this discussion back on track once, and you resisted that effort. I'm doing to do it again here. This discussion is about the PlayBook. If you want to have a tear-induced slapfest with me, take it to PMs. If you want to talk about the iPad, start a new thread.

 

[Deeko]

Funny, one might say the same thing about hyping up a device that only publicly exists on paper...

Looks very cool. I'll reserve judgement until we see official reviews & pricing, but in general, looks very nice. If prices were the same, I would buy this over an iPad.

Dunno what to tell you, unless you're referring to someone else's comments. I've refuted efforts to bash something based on pure hypothesis and no facts, that's all.